Posted in: Features
Posted 2017-04-23 at 02:13 by M42 Zwilling
The next hotfix, which will be out shortly, will also have some big changes to the infantry weapon meta: kinetic energy (KE) inspired damage settings. I've been collecting ammunition data for PR's factions ever since I joined the team. This will be the first stage of putting it to use.
The final implementation, which will take into account smaller differences in bullet weights and barrel lengths, will take more time. In the meantime, this will have most of the same gameplay impact.
Each weapon will now have a base damage that is typical for its caliber as before, but that damage will be set on hard data - on a typical projectile weight and muzzle velocity for that caliber. I've also made other tweaks to the damage model, such as tweaking body armor effectiveness and damage loss over distance.
In more detail:
[LIST][*] Base damage will be KE-based. This is an oversimplification, but at least it's based on hard data now. Most factions in PR have heavy enough body armor to completely stop small arms calibers from penetrating anyway - in this case internal trauma would realistically depend on KE. There is room to expand on the modifiers against unarmored targets, but that is much harder to put a number to. 5.56/5.45 will stay the baseline, at least for now - its damage will be about the same as in 1.4.7. Other calibers though be more extreme based on the KE difference compared to 5.56. Full-powered 7.62 will still be a 2-shot kill to the torso with body armor, but a one-shot without. On the other hand, 9mm will be much weaker.
[*] Faster damage loss over distance. In reality a 7.62 loses about half of its KE at 400m, and a 5.56 2/3. Previously, most rifle bullets weren't set to lose any damage until they hit 400m, with the damage lost stopping at 1000m. The distance settings for snipers were 2-3x larger. Now the damage loss will always start immediately, and cease when the round would go transonic (this tends to destabilize the bullet - later the bullet will be set to despawn completely at this point to represent that).
[*] Removal of the 'skill bonus' to damage for marksmen and sniper weapons. Previously, they had a higher base damage setting compared to to the same caliber when in a normal infantry kit's weapon. This was originally added under the reasoning that they have better training it hitting vital areas. That might make sense for a SWAT sniper, but not in engagements about engagements at several hundred meters against targets with body armor that will prevent a sniper bullet from hitting vital organs at all. Such training should also not help in damage against vehicles, but with almost 2x the base damage in some cases it definitely did in PR.
[*] Addition of a new material for the lower torso. Previously the damage modifiers for upper and lower torso (i.e. the hips/upper leg area) were the same, so shooting someone in the upper thigh would do as much damage as a chest shot without armor. Now the amount of damage is between upper torso and limbs.
[*] Adjustments to the damage modifiers against body armor. Before modifiers varied depending on the caliber. 7.62 was set to do slightly better against heavy body armor than 5.56, even though neither can penetrate level IV protection. 5.56 was losing some damage against light armor, but realistically a high velocity projectile will overcome a ballistic vest so quickly that almost no energy is lost. Now the system is all-or-nothing. A projectile will do either 1x(base damage) against body armor if it cannot penetrate, and 1.7x, the same as no armor, if it can.
[*] Kit changes to unconventional factions to account for the low-caliber damage nerf. Most submachine guns in particular got replaced with larger-caliber weapons in spawn menu kits. These were moved instead to ones that don't need firepower as much, like the engineer.[/LIST]
How these changes will change the meta:
[LIST][*]Pistol-calibers and buckshot will be worse against modern factions since they all have at least ballistic vests. They are nerfed somewhat against unarmored ones as well.
[*]Battle rifles, and with them MEC, will be buffed. A 7.62 hitting the hips/upper leg area, which as I said is not affected by body armor, will take a player down in one hit at close range (out to ~80-90m). Other than personal preference, there were not many reasons to take them before. Generally 5.56 had double the ammo, lower recoil, lower settle time, and a higher fire rate. Somewhat higher damage was the only advantage, but was too small to be worth it - 5.56 was still a 2-shot kill against the unprotected lower torso/legs.
[*]Marksmen will be buffed for the same reason.
[*]Most snipers will be nerfed against conventional forces - all 7.62 are now a 2-shot against heavy body armor even at point blank since the skill bonus is gone. Only .338 snipers like the C14 and AWM keep one-shot potential and retain it out to significant range. Marksman will be a better choice for most situations.
[*]Long-range fire will be less effective overall.
[*]Close-range combat in Vietnam and the Falklands will be extremely deadly due to the lack of body armor and abundance of full-power 7.62 rifles.[/LIST]
Obviously this will shake up the balance. Unconventional factions won't have the problem of relying on the nerfed SMGs, but we're expecting some issues elsewhere (I may have to remove some of the M14's on Vietnam for example). Feel free to tell us what you think of the changes and balance once 1.4.8 is out! :smile:
Chart:
Not including head, cause that is just as deadly as before.
[CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XgyhLta.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/waFFnDF.png[/IMG][/CENTER]
The final implementation, which will take into account smaller differences in bullet weights and barrel lengths, will take more time. In the meantime, this will have most of the same gameplay impact.
Each weapon will now have a base damage that is typical for its caliber as before, but that damage will be set on hard data - on a typical projectile weight and muzzle velocity for that caliber. I've also made other tweaks to the damage model, such as tweaking body armor effectiveness and damage loss over distance.
In more detail:
[LIST][*] Base damage will be KE-based. This is an oversimplification, but at least it's based on hard data now. Most factions in PR have heavy enough body armor to completely stop small arms calibers from penetrating anyway - in this case internal trauma would realistically depend on KE. There is room to expand on the modifiers against unarmored targets, but that is much harder to put a number to. 5.56/5.45 will stay the baseline, at least for now - its damage will be about the same as in 1.4.7. Other calibers though be more extreme based on the KE difference compared to 5.56. Full-powered 7.62 will still be a 2-shot kill to the torso with body armor, but a one-shot without. On the other hand, 9mm will be much weaker.
[*] Faster damage loss over distance. In reality a 7.62 loses about half of its KE at 400m, and a 5.56 2/3. Previously, most rifle bullets weren't set to lose any damage until they hit 400m, with the damage lost stopping at 1000m. The distance settings for snipers were 2-3x larger. Now the damage loss will always start immediately, and cease when the round would go transonic (this tends to destabilize the bullet - later the bullet will be set to despawn completely at this point to represent that).
[*] Removal of the 'skill bonus' to damage for marksmen and sniper weapons. Previously, they had a higher base damage setting compared to to the same caliber when in a normal infantry kit's weapon. This was originally added under the reasoning that they have better training it hitting vital areas. That might make sense for a SWAT sniper, but not in engagements about engagements at several hundred meters against targets with body armor that will prevent a sniper bullet from hitting vital organs at all. Such training should also not help in damage against vehicles, but with almost 2x the base damage in some cases it definitely did in PR.
[*] Addition of a new material for the lower torso. Previously the damage modifiers for upper and lower torso (i.e. the hips/upper leg area) were the same, so shooting someone in the upper thigh would do as much damage as a chest shot without armor. Now the amount of damage is between upper torso and limbs.
[*] Adjustments to the damage modifiers against body armor. Before modifiers varied depending on the caliber. 7.62 was set to do slightly better against heavy body armor than 5.56, even though neither can penetrate level IV protection. 5.56 was losing some damage against light armor, but realistically a high velocity projectile will overcome a ballistic vest so quickly that almost no energy is lost. Now the system is all-or-nothing. A projectile will do either 1x(base damage) against body armor if it cannot penetrate, and 1.7x, the same as no armor, if it can.
[*] Kit changes to unconventional factions to account for the low-caliber damage nerf. Most submachine guns in particular got replaced with larger-caliber weapons in spawn menu kits. These were moved instead to ones that don't need firepower as much, like the engineer.[/LIST]
How these changes will change the meta:
[LIST][*]Pistol-calibers and buckshot will be worse against modern factions since they all have at least ballistic vests. They are nerfed somewhat against unarmored ones as well.
[*]Battle rifles, and with them MEC, will be buffed. A 7.62 hitting the hips/upper leg area, which as I said is not affected by body armor, will take a player down in one hit at close range (out to ~80-90m). Other than personal preference, there were not many reasons to take them before. Generally 5.56 had double the ammo, lower recoil, lower settle time, and a higher fire rate. Somewhat higher damage was the only advantage, but was too small to be worth it - 5.56 was still a 2-shot kill against the unprotected lower torso/legs.
[*]Marksmen will be buffed for the same reason.
[*]Most snipers will be nerfed against conventional forces - all 7.62 are now a 2-shot against heavy body armor even at point blank since the skill bonus is gone. Only .338 snipers like the C14 and AWM keep one-shot potential and retain it out to significant range. Marksman will be a better choice for most situations.
[*]Long-range fire will be less effective overall.
[*]Close-range combat in Vietnam and the Falklands will be extremely deadly due to the lack of body armor and abundance of full-power 7.62 rifles.[/LIST]
Obviously this will shake up the balance. Unconventional factions won't have the problem of relying on the nerfed SMGs, but we're expecting some issues elsewhere (I may have to remove some of the M14's on Vietnam for example). Feel free to tell us what you think of the changes and balance once 1.4.8 is out! :smile:
Chart:
Not including head, cause that is just as deadly as before.
[CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XgyhLta.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/waFFnDF.png[/IMG][/CENTER]
Updated 2017-04-23 at 14:24 by [R-DEV]Mats391
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It's more realistic, that much is certain, but surely this takes time to get used to. I was 5m from a US soldier the other day, playing as an Insurgent Medic with a Skorpion machine pistol. Its 9mm cartridge did absolutely nothing, even though I dumped an entire magazine in his torso. Luckily my squadmate saved me with his AK-47, taking down the enemy in one or two hits, otherwise I'd been dead! I guess this encourages even more teamwork, which is a good thing.
To be honest, the only change I disagree with is the nerfed sniper rifles. I've never felt that they're OP - and I've played since 0.98 - nor has anyone else I've spoken to complained about the snipers before. A sniper rifle should always have a one-shot kill, but be difficult to master due to bullet drop. There are so many dangers to contend with as a sniper, such as having to camoflague one's self, experiencing a lot of tunnel vision due to being scoped in often, and having no medic nearby. High damage should compensate for these dangers, just as it was before the patch.
I've played Muttrah City once or twice since the patch, both as USMC and MEC, and I feel that MEC doesn't have too much of an advantage over the USMC. Although the risk of being ambushed is more of a danger to the USMC than to the MEC, the USMC still have an advantage in close-quarters combat since their M16's and M4's have higher fire rates and more ammo, and to be fair the G3 is quite big and bulky, somewhat difficult to operate at anything but a long distance.
In short, I'd say this new system is still balanced (apart from the snipers), but it is asymmetrical balance, where different sides have their own advantages. It's kind of like an RTS game, where one unit type is stronger against one thing than another, but also comparably weak compared to another. Rock-paper-scissors, if you will.Posted 2017-06-17 at 11:06 by LordHenryWotton 
Updated 2017-06-17 at 11:35 by LordHenryWotton -
Not really, unless it's 50cal sniper round hitting the body - then the fact of wearing or not wearing ballistic armor tends to become pretty meaningless.Quote:Originally Posted by LordHenryWotton
A sniper rifle should always have a one-shot kill, but be difficult to master due to bullet drop.
Smaller calibers, like 7,62mm - well, they behave like "any other" 7,62mm rounds.. body armor works to an extent.Posted 2017-07-09 at 10:49 by Unit-RX400
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This is the worst update, Gameplay is horrible.
Posted 2017-07-24 at 20:36 by [GER]Birnd
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If you were five meters from him, why didn't you aim for the head instead?Quote:Originally Posted by LordHenryWotton
It's more realistic, that much is certain, but surely this takes time to get used to. I was 5m from a US soldier the other day, playing as an Insurgent Medic with a Skorpion machine pistol. Its 9mm cartridge did absolutely nothing, even though I dumped an entire magazine in his torso. Luckily my squadmate saved me with his AK-47, taking down the enemy in one or two hits, otherwise I'd been dead! I guess this encourages even more teamwork, which is a good thing.
To be honest, the only change I disagree with is the nerfed sniper rifles. I've never felt that they're OP - and I've played since 0.98 - nor has anyone else I've spoken to complained about the snipers before. A sniper rifle should always have a one-shot kill, but be difficult to master due to bullet drop. There are so many dangers to contend with as a sniper, such as having to camoflague one's self, experiencing a lot of tunnel vision due to being scoped in often, and having no medic nearby. High damage should compensate for these dangers, just as it was before the patch.
I've played Muttrah City once or twice since the patch, both as USMC and MEC, and I feel that MEC doesn't have too much of an advantage over the USMC. Although the risk of being ambushed is more of a danger to the USMC than to the MEC, the USMC still have an advantage in close-quarters combat since their M16's and M4's have higher fire rates and more ammo, and to be fair the G3 is quite big and bulky, somewhat difficult to operate at anything but a long distance.
In short, I'd say this new system is still balanced (apart from the snipers), but it is asymmetrical balance, where different sides have their own advantages. It's kind of like an RTS game, where one unit type is stronger against one thing than another, but also comparably weak compared to another. Rock-paper-scissors, if you will.Posted 2017-09-27 at 01:54 by SGT.CHRISTIAN
