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Old 09-14-2009, 10:55 AM   #1
Hammarskjold

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Default Advice for server admins everywhere

I have some advice for all you server admins out there, based on my last match on the nwa UK insurgency server.

1) Swearwords, profanity and ethnic slurs
I've never understood why swearing is a bannable or kickable offense. I cannot comprehend why people feel the need to go out of their way to correct the way people talk. Admittedly it's not nice to see someone write or hear someone use the word fuck every other word, but unless it's used in a derogative manner "you fucking so and so" I don't see the problem. I'm an adult, and adults my age (21 or older) seem like the intended audience for this mod. I can handle swearwords. If you're playing an online game, where there's shooting involved, you can pretty much guess there's going to be swearwords. If this bothers you, don't play the damn game.

Now, ethnic slurs. I'm not a xenophobe, so if I use ethnic slurs as a joke with my friends, on the internets, when I say "what up n-" it's ironic, because I'm white as a snow devil. It's not meant to offend anybody, and if it did I will apologise and stop saying that shit. So when my friend and I were going to play some PR on nwa UK insurgency server, my friend greeted everyone with a "hello n-!". Yes, immature and fucking stupid. A server admin banned him right away. My friend didn't get a warning, didn't get to apologise or even read the server rules. He obviously did not mean it as an offense to anyone, it was just a really, really stupid thing to say.

So the lesson here is warn first, ban later. Obviously, if someone's being overtly racist, there's no point to that - but in this case there was nothing sinister about it, it was just a stupid and immature thing to say that's all. The point of an ethnic slur is to offend somebody.

There's no need to be overzealous. We're all just looking to have a good time, playing PR with friends. A little profanity should be acceptable to everyone seeing as this is the internets and everything.
2) Cheating
Cheating is bad. Instead of these laws popping up all over europe where they're going to fine people for downloading illegally they should be fining people for cheating in computer games. I can't stand a cheater.

Me and said friend (who I managed to get unbanned) were playing on Fallujah West, one of my favorite maps (can't wait for the lag/sidewalk fix). It was me and 3 other guys dismounted, with a Humvee (driver and gunner) as heavy support. Together we had a great thing going, and we went around destroying two or three crashes and like half a dozen hideouts - we really menaced the Insurgents. The Humvee gunner racked up 81 kills (!) and 1 death, as I did my best in directing him around on the battlefield. I think in total we had 10 deaths, after 45 minutes, and probably over 100 kills altogether.

Anyway, 45 minutes in we've got 8 out of 10 caches and 4 of us are in the base restocking ammo while the remaining two are manning the roof of the gas station, waiting for us to get back into the fight, guarding our rally point. Then, all of a sudden, my gunner dies and leaves the squad. My eyes look at the top left of the screen and lo and behold he's been kicked. A furious debate starts. The server admin has just ruined the fun for me and my whole squad because some asshats accused the Humvee gunner of wallhacking, aimbotting and whatever else they could think of. The Humvee gunner is not a friend of mine, only the medic was, the rest of the squad were random people on the server. I'm not going to defend a cheater even if he's on my team, in my squad. I want cheaters treated the way real-life hackers are treated (banned from using computers/going on the internet).

Not a word from the admins.

What the fuck. My whole squad has been insisting that no, he isn't cheating. He didn't get 81 kills with 81 .50 cal bullets - he RTB:d many, many times to restock ammo. He doesn't see people from behind walls either. The explanation for shooting so many people was me leading him and us right smack into the middle of some pretty explosive situations. Frankly, we were lucky to get out alive many times. We had 4 people dismounted, including a marksman, able to give him targets and direct his fire at targets he wasn't looking at himself. We kind of in a way gave him 360 degree sight - and that produced results.

But no, the server admin listened to someone who joined the server a few minutes ago, who didn't know at first he had racked up all those kills from a .50 cal roaming around the map for 45 minutes. It's entirely possible, and we showed this, to rack up that many kills. We must have run into 7 or 8 hideouts, and could not always go destroy it right away (so we killed people spawning in, why wouldn't we).

Finally, a word from the admin:
"I want to look at his demo and his screenshots".

What. I ask him "Why?". My squadmates and a lot of other people - on both teams - come to our defense in calling this bullshit.

I then get kicked and banned, told to "go outside". There's a server I won't return to.
This is not how you run a server. This is not just a rant about this particular server - I've come across many server admins who are complete and utter idiots, in PR and other games.

If you're shelling out hundreds of euros every month to have a great server where people can enjoy their favorite game then surely you want to encourage people to play on your server, right? Why else would you go through all that effort to get a server up and keep it running?

So don't be difficult. Don't have your rules listed on a forum, use the in-game crawler, uhh, thing. Don't ban swearwords altogether. Don't force people to play a certain way, (ie. you must follow SL and CO orders). These types of rules are unnecessary and frustrating sometimes. I'm a nice person, but I speak my mind and I use all manner of words - there's nothing wrong with that.

In the case of the must-follow-order rule - you're effectively turning what should be fun into a nightmare. The CO is made out to be the Pope, even though everyone playing isn't catholic, gnome sayin'? You'll spend a lot of time worrying, not having fun.

That's all I had to say for now. See you on the battlefield.


tl; dr; I don't like overzealous server admins and wish they'd relax.
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:30 AM   #2
OkitaMakoto
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Default Re: Advice for server admins everywhere

Hah, feel better now?

I'll just address one issue you brought up because I feel most strongly about it. There are a LOT of youth that play the game. more so than I, myself, imagined. We have an age poll around here somewhere and youd be surprised at the ages we have as an average...mean... mode, whatever, heh.

I understand the idea that we are killing people, but its still just a game, and as I previously mentioned, a lot of youth play the game. Heck, theres even a large amount of adults[pardon the lack of reference here] who dont want people cussing up their servers.

But the biggest reason? Their server, their rules. Might not be democratic or held up by the statue of liberty, but its how the internet/servers work. Your money, your rules. Its a similar policy our forum has. It even excludes me. I dont pay for it, I just work with it. I might have a bit of say in small things, but ultimately, I listen to the big guys



As a side note on cheating and that, its a shame. I agree. Id just keep up contact with the admin who said he will review the demo and watch the accused played. Perhaps, once the result is confirmed he was, in fact, NOT cheating, you will have more grounds to state your case and teach a moral internet lesson of giving people the benefit of the doubt, especially when they are backed by defenses coming from both teams, his very squad, and the only slander comes from a recently joined played.

Cheers
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Old 09-14-2009, 11:47 AM   #3
Zi8

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Default Re: Advice for server admins everywhere

Quote:
1) Swearwords, profanity and ethnic slurs
[INDENT]I've never understood why swearing is a bannable or kickable offense. I cannot comprehend why people feel the need to go out of their way to correct the way people talk. Admittedly it's not nice to see someone write or hear someone use the word fuck every other word, but unless it's used in a derogative manner "you fucking so and so" I don't see the problem. I'm an adult, and adults my age (21 or older) seem like the intended audience for this mod. I can handle swearwords. If you're playing an online game, where there's shooting involved, you can pretty much guess there's going to be swearwords. If this bothers you, don't play the damn game.
If I have a squadmember who is swearing all the time, I will boot him. They don't realize how idiotic they are and how tiring it can be for other 5 guys to listen to. It doesn't have anything to do with the type of the game or killing people in the game.

Hell, I sometimes heard less swearing when I was serving in the Army than from some guy swearing all the time in the VOIP.

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Old 09-14-2009, 12:10 PM   #4
BattleArena4
Default Re: Advice for server admins everywhere

When you play a game on someones server it is important to remember that you are a guest.

If you don't like the rules, simply don't play on that server and everyone will be happy.


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Old 09-14-2009, 12:19 PM   #5
Hammarskjold

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Default Re: Advice for server admins everywhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]OkitaMakoto View Post
Hah, feel better now?
Much better. This is something that's constantly bugging me, things that get in the way of gaming fun, things that are completely avoidable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]OkitaMakoto View Post
I'll just address one issue you brought up because I feel most strongly about it. There are a LOT of youth that play the game. more so than I, myself, imagined. We have an age poll around here somewhere and youd be surprised at the ages we have as an average...mean... mode, whatever, heh.

I understand the idea that we are killing people, but its still just a game, and as I previously mentioned, a lot of youth play the game. Heck, theres even a large amount of adults[pardon the lack of reference here] who dont want people cussing up their servers.

But the biggest reason? Their server, their rules. Might not be democratic or held up by the statue of liberty, but its how the internet/servers work. Your money, your rules. Its a similar policy our forum has. It even excludes me. I dont pay for it, I just work with it. I might have a bit of say in small things, but ultimately, I listen to the big guys
I understand what you're saying, and I'm not advocating that people be allowed to shout fuck fuck fuckity fuck down the microphone, like a tourettes case, all the time. The "your money, your rules" argument is illogical, in my opinion. I don't see why these people, who obviously want to have players on their servers, go out of their way to make it difficult for a lot of people to play on them. Things like english only, no teamkilling, no glitching or using this and that exploit, and so on - that's not what I am talking about. I'm talking about rules that are so archaic and unnecessary you ask yourself why, why the hell does this matter? I can understand why you would want people to play a certain way, but really, if it's within the games rules and everyone is having a good time I honestly don't see the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zi8 View Post
If I have a squadmember who is swearing all the time, I will boot him. They don't realize how idiotic they are and how tiring it can be for other 5 guys to listen to. It doesn't have anything to do with the type of the game or killing people in the game.

Hell, I sometimes heard less swearing when I was serving in the Army than from some guy swearing all the time in the VOIP.
I know what you're saying, but there's a better solution to that than kicking or banning that person from the server - kicking them from said squad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleArena4 View Post
When you play a game on someones server it is important to remember that you are a guest.

If you don't like the rules, simply don't play on that server and everyone will be happy.

I hope this is very clever sarcasm, else I'll have to post a facepalm picture.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:34 PM   #6
Robbi
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Default Re: Advice for server admins everywhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammarskjold View Post
I hope this is very clever sarcasm, else I'll have to post a facepalm picture.
Not really, all servers run the servers that they pay for the way they want to, as with all games.

Don't like it, play on another server, simples.



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Old 09-14-2009, 12:37 PM   #7
paradien

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Default Re: Advice for server admins everywhere

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammarskjold View Post
I have some advice for all you server admins out there, based on my last match on the nwa UK insurgency server.

1) Swearwords, profanity and ethnic slurs
I've never understood why swearing is a bannable or kickable offense. I cannot comprehend why people feel the need to go out of their way to correct the way people talk. Admittedly it's not nice to see someone write or hear someone use the word fuck every other word, but unless it's used in a derogative manner "you fucking so and so" I don't see the problem. I'm an adult, and adults my age (21 or older) seem like the intended audience for this mod. I can handle swearwords. If you're playing an online game, where there's shooting involved, you can pretty much guess there's going to be swearwords. If this bothers you, don't play the damn game.

Now, ethnic slurs. I'm not a xenophobe, so if I use ethnic slurs as a joke with my friends, on the internets, when I say "what up n-" it's ironic, because I'm white as a snow devil. It's not meant to offend anybody, and if it did I will apologise and stop saying that shit. So when my friend and I were going to play some PR on nwa UK insurgency server, my friend greeted everyone with a "hello n-!". Yes, immature and fucking stupid. A server admin banned him right away. My friend didn't get a warning, didn't get to apologise or even read the server rules. He obviously did not mean it as an offense to anyone, it was just a really, really stupid thing to say.

So the lesson here is warn first, ban later. Obviously, if someone's being overtly racist, there's no point to that - but in this case there was nothing sinister about it, it was just a stupid and immature thing to say that's all. The point of an ethnic slur is to offend somebody.

There's no need to be overzealous. We're all just looking to have a good time, playing PR with friends. A little profanity should be acceptable to everyone seeing as this is the internets and everything.
2) Cheating
Cheating is bad. Instead of these laws popping up all over europe where they're going to fine people for downloading illegally they should be fining people for cheating in computer games. I can't stand a cheater.

Me and said friend (who I managed to get unbanned) were playing on Fallujah West, one of my favorite maps (can't wait for the lag/sidewalk fix). It was me and 3 other guys dismounted, with a Humvee (driver and gunner) as heavy support. Together we had a great thing going, and we went around destroying two or three crashes and like half a dozen hideouts - we really menaced the Insurgents. The Humvee gunner racked up 81 kills (!) and 1 death, as I did my best in directing him around on the battlefield. I think in total we had 10 deaths, after 45 minutes, and probably over 100 kills altogether.

Anyway, 45 minutes in we've got 8 out of 10 caches and 4 of us are in the base restocking ammo while the remaining two are manning the roof of the gas station, waiting for us to get back into the fight, guarding our rally point. Then, all of a sudden, my gunner dies and leaves the squad. My eyes look at the top left of the screen and lo and behold he's been kicked. A furious debate starts. The server admin has just ruined the fun for me and my whole squad because some asshats accused the Humvee gunner of wallhacking, aimbotting and whatever else they could think of. The Humvee gunner is not a friend of mine, only the medic was, the rest of the squad were random people on the server. I'm not going to defend a cheater even if he's on my team, in my squad. I want cheaters treated the way real-life hackers are treated (banned from using computers/going on the internet).

Not a word from the admins.

What the fuck. My whole squad has been insisting that no, he isn't cheating. He didn't get 81 kills with 81 .50 cal bullets - he RTB:d many, many times to restock ammo. He doesn't see people from behind walls either. The explanation for shooting so many people was me leading him and us right smack into the middle of some pretty explosive situations. Frankly, we were lucky to get out alive many times. We had 4 people dismounted, including a marksman, able to give him targets and direct his fire at targets he wasn't looking at himself. We kind of in a way gave him 360 degree sight - and that produced results.

But no, the server admin listened to someone who joined the server a few minutes ago, who didn't know at first he had racked up all those kills from a .50 cal roaming around the map for 45 minutes. It's entirely possible, and we showed this, to rack up that many kills. We must have run into 7 or 8 hideouts, and could not always go destroy it right away (so we killed people spawning in, why wouldn't we).

Finally, a word from the admin:
"I want to look at his demo and his screenshots".

What. I ask him "Why?". My squadmates and a lot of other people - on both teams - come to our defense in calling this bullshit.

I then get kicked and banned, told to "go outside". There's a server I won't return to.
This is not how you run a server. This is not just a rant about this particular server - I've come across many server admins who are complete and utter idiots, in PR and other games.

If you're shelling out hundreds of euros every month to have a great server where people can enjoy their favorite game then surely you want to encourage people to play on your server, right? Why else would you go through all that effort to get a server up and keep it running?

So don't be difficult. Don't have your rules listed on a forum, use the in-game crawler, uhh, thing. Don't ban swearwords altogether. Don't force people to play a certain way, (ie. you must follow SL and CO orders). These types of rules are unnecessary and frustrating sometimes. I'm a nice person, but I speak my mind and I use all manner of words - there's nothing wrong with that.

In the case of the must-follow-order rule - you're effectively turning what should be fun into a nightmare. The CO is made out to be the Pope, even though everyone playing isn't catholic, gnome sayin'? You'll spend a lot of time worrying, not having fun.

That's all I had to say for now. See you on the battlefield.


tl; dr; I don't like overzealous server admins and wish they'd relax.
The point of following sl or co, is so we dont have a buttload of rambos every were, im not even sure why your objecting it.
The point of the game was a squad base action, not 1 man killing crew, if you want that go back to vbf2, and language, whats it matter. If your in voip go ahead ,idc who you might pi$ off, but typing explitives, like me reading a single explitive cuase u got shot will be usefull to me in a dire situation.

Idk about any one else but this is just seems to be another thread on kinda near pointless things.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:42 PM   #8
gomimin

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Default Re: Advice for server admins everywhere

@Hammarskjold

Did you ever admin on a server?


"What's small, dark and knocking at the door? ...The future of humanity." -Bruce Sterling
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:53 PM   #9
[FC]Freddie
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Default Re: Advice for server admins everywhere

Sounds like you need to start your own "Everything goes" server, then you and your friends can cuss and greet each other every way you like and you can make your own "no rules apply" policy.

Until you do that I'm afraid you going to have to just deal with the servers that graciously supply you with PR gaming access and the way that those people prefer to see their servers administered.

http://www.forgottencompany.com/images/forgotten_co_sm.jpg
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:59 PM   #10
05grottim
Banned
Default Re: Advice for server admins everywhere

on the CB! server we havent got a language rule but if you said the n word you would end up getting in some trouble. Although a clan called commando bastards can hardly enforce a language rule lol.
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