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Old 08-10-2009, 08:29 AM   #1
EddieRizla

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Default [Map Test] Tropical Jungle, (Quality Vs Preformance)

UPDATED

Hi guys,
Im just experimenting with BF2 editor and trying to create a realistic jungle enviroment, without drastically effecting the preformance.
Ive given it another go so the first bit is just the old photos on to see the difference.

OLD Attempt
1)In Overgrowth mode i created a new brush, which i then added lots of different bushes and plants to. I then also added trees to the same overgrowth brush.
2)I used this one single "Jungle" brush to paint a large area, i then tweaked with the idividual vegitations settings, making it more dense while keeping the spacing between the bushes and trees.
3)Ive tweaked with the settings of the density and have found that the trees tend to lag the editor from 30fps out in flat ground to about 15 fps when moving nearer to the jungle then leveling off back at 30fps, when stationary in the jungle.

Refrence Photo


Heres what i created...

Thick/Dense Foliage
My favorate



Medium FoliageOffers better preformance but less apnosphere.



Thin Foliage Personally i dont like it...



Now on to the canopy thickness.
This has been the most difficult part. Trying to get the trees to fill in the holes, without using too many trees.
Canopy Thick


Canopy Med


Latest Attempt

This is my latest attempt after starting over, completly.
Ive taken all of your tips and suggestions into account, (i think )

* Cut Back on the density
*Lowered view distance to 800, IIRC a heli sound bug happens if it is lower than 800.
* Not gone over the top with placing the jungle, using rice paddies to break it up.
*Not placing many vegetation set peices as static objects. (They draw at a further distance= less preformance.)
*You cant really see it in the following pictures, but i added color variations in the leafyfloor.
*Also added grassy patches in clearings throughout the jungle.
*Added standing hight bushes/undergrowth to kinda block vision when running.
*Ramdomised the terrain more hills and dips. Maybe might add some streams later.
*You cant see from the pics but i added ramdom rocks which make good cover and look like the should be there, smoothened by the terratial rainfall in Indochina.

Pics

Refined Without the undegrowth, it looks realy bare doesnt it...



Refined With the undergrowth, it looks more junglish now since it harder to see beyond 40 or so meters since its sp dense.



The main differences since my last attempt, is that i have cut back ALOT on the canopy thichness and the amount of trees, since the preformance was poor and because i couldnt quite get a complete canopy covering. All of this makes the preformance better, but at a price, there is no longer such a thick covering of trees. But i guess it isnt that bad since the combat is taking place on the ground, unless you are a monkey or spiderman. :P

The Bushes on the ground have been cut back aswell since too many of them makes it look to repetative and also decreases preformance.

Most importantly i have added a undergrowth layer under the overgrowth layer of bushes and trees. The undergrowth layer is a tricky one, here are some minor problems i am experencing.

*Undergrowth was designed for grass and small plants, im using it to make towering bushes, meaning the bushes look a bit stretched out. Does anyone think the undergrowth bushes look stupid and to low res/quality?
*The undergrowth keeps matching the color of the ground below it meaning its not the green i want it to be but the brown of the leafy floor. Does anyone know a way around this?


Thell me what you think, i dont care how harsh it sounds just say it,
I think constructive critisism is needed right now.
I might think something looks good, cuz i made it and im proud of my work.
But to other people it just may look like and extremley poor peice of map work.
Please dont just say:
"Looks good"
"Keep up the work, cant wait to play it"
etc.

If you PC wont be able to handle this kinda vegetation, ie. does it already lag on other maps.

What do you think the jungle is missing...ie. does it need logs rocks more small trees...

If you know of any way on getting better preformance with the vegetaion?

If you know how to make the jungle look better, let me know please.

Thanks i look forward to hearing you opinions soon.
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Last edited by EddieRizla; 08-26-2009 at 06:16 PM..
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:43 AM   #2
J.F.Leusch69
Retired PR Developer

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Default Re: [Map Test]Tropical Jungle, (Quality Vs Preformance)

hey, welcome to the forums. enjoy your stay

here is an interessting thread for you:
http://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196...gle-fever.html

and well everybody loves dense overgrowth, but that is not all which affects the performance, there is also the viewdistance of the overgrowth as well as the generell performance of the map (not 100% sure on this ) and the number of obergrowth objects (even if there is not an engine limit, but if you have about 100,000 overgrowth objects than it will lag for a lot of people).

keep up, cheers Leusch
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Old 08-10-2009, 08:58 AM   #3
marcoelnk
Retired PR Developer

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Default Re: [Map Test]Tropical Jungle, (Quality Vs Preformance)

Having such a dense overgrowht everywhere acorss your map especially if its a bigger map would definitely not work out due to performance reason unless you drastically lower the viewdistance.
But having alot of areas without overgrowth , eg villages, fields etc would solve this issue in a way though it will still be performance heavy.

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Old 08-10-2009, 09:17 AM   #4
EddieRizla

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Default Re: [Map Test]Tropical Jungle, (Quality Vs Preformance)

hmm that jungle fever thread is just what i was looking for, as many of the trees in PR at the moment are not suitable for tropical jungles. Thnaks
I gave him a PM to see if i can use those vegitation.

I was thinking of making the view distance 800 since it is a 2km map (Almost half of it is sea, kinda like muttrah) And having rice paddies (Placed as static objects) around the main areas of the map and jungle areas surrounding the river.
It is a helicopter map so preformance is No.2 on my list (second to quality), since heli pilots will have a large view area meaning their PCs will be trying to draw all the vegetation in view quickly.
Do you think undergrowth instead of overgrowth for the jungle floor would be a better idea?

Also i wouldnt mind some criticism since, it may look good in my eyes since i made it, but other people will be able to point out the faults.

Thanks
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:42 PM   #5
IronTaxi
Retired PR Developer

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Default Re: [Map Test]Tropical Jungle, (Quality Vs Preformance)

well having helis complicates it all a bit

BUT...

area prioritizing is what I was planning.. my initial test map for the jungle will be a series of steep valleys and peaks.. The peaks will be inaccesible for the most part allowing me to thin the overgrowth on top and screen the area with trees rather that having it chock full..

additionally. Im planning to place all the large canopy level trees by hand...then use the overgowth brush for mid and low level vegitation...the large trees becoming the "static objects" of the map...

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Old 08-10-2009, 06:03 PM   #6
EddieRizla

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Default Re: [Map Test]Tropical Jungle, (Quality Vs Preformance)

My map doesnt really have hills or valleys, , Its mostly ricepaddies, Sea, and some jungle. Mostly flat. maybe i should just move to a different type of map...

If you placed trees at static objects, doesnt that mean the static object trees will draw at a greater distance making the map more laggy. I remember that fields are placed as static objects since they do not dissapear at long distances.
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Old 08-11-2009, 05:15 PM   #7
fullkontact
Default Re: [Map Test]Tropical Jungle, (Quality Vs Preformance)

if you can change the ground texture you're using for something alot more green, preferably the dirt with large amounts of fallen leaves, greens, browns, reds etc. Get it looking like a jungle floor as it looks a bit too clean. But otherwise looking good. I prefer the thick overgrowth personally
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Old 08-12-2009, 01:55 AM   #8
Celestial1
Default Re: [Map Test]Tropical Jungle, (Quality Vs Preformance)

Some aesthetic suggestions:

(1) Try to remake this with the 'Jungle Fever' trees, and any other trees that fit the area. Obviously, you should avoid trees that don't belong in the environment (notice in the reference picture that more or less the trees are the same color; if you are using the Jungle Fever trees, then make sure you are using more trees with a light bark as opposed to the darker barked trees, but using the lighter default trees will add a little variety here and there, which isn't a bad thing).

(2) Definitely change the ground color. A forest's canopy blocks most of the sunlight, so the ground will be much more brown-colored, with beds of green-leaves covering portions of the forest floor. It doesn't have too be too dark, because when everything is said and done the parts being obscured by the canopy should be shadowed, whereas the parts in the open should become a lot lighter in comparison.

(3) There seems to be a VERY minor difference between the two canopies. If that is how it looks (assuming you didn't misplace a picture or something), then use medium if it gives a performance boost of any kind.

(4) Medium foliage, but perhaps tweaked. If you can find any, larger palm-plants would be great; the kind that obscure your vision past them even when standing. I'm not sure if there are any by default, but if ones could be made or found, that would be great. Also, make the 'baby tree' looking ones less frequent. Often, a forest won't have too many growing trees because of the already maxed-out soil use. A few here and there isn't a bad thing, but having too many seems a bit strange. Using a lot of the bush-sized undergrowth is a plus, as it will obscure some of the forest floor and give that kind of ambience.
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:28 PM   #9
MMad
Default Re: [Map Test]Tropical Jungle, (Quality Vs Preformance)

TBH from just a quick look at the screenshots, there doesn't seem to be a huge difference between high, medium and low foliage thickness. I'm sure there's a large difference when walking around in the map, but overall I think you could get away with an unrealistically thin jungle that would still feel very cramped when you're actually playing and trying to spot enemies.

In any case, performance should come first, so I'd focus on the thin foliage to start with at least. Maybe do a play test with a bunch of people and bots online, see how it works on different hardware.
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:55 PM   #10
Tannhauser

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Default Re: [Map Test] Tropical Jungle, (Quality Vs Preformance)

Adding bumps in the terrain using the random tool at power 1 and smoothing just a tad after will help the rainforest look less practicable, more like a real rainforest floor, and more lively than trees sticked to a flat floor of leaves.

Adding static trunks randomly and a few rockies there and there also gives your forest some life. But don't just randomly place rocks (don't use overgrowth ones, they're jagged), put them so it looks believable that they're there.

just my two cents here, I might be wrong

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