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Old 01-16-2008, 02:52 PM   #1
ralfidude

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Default new missile system

This is just a suggestion about an alternative missile that can be used. I like eto play the game Lock On alot and iv learned alot about many plane's onboard devices and systems. One very handy and useful attack system is i believe called the Boar mode, in which when close enough to ur air target, u can lock on and fire without giving a warning to the enemy aircraft that it has been locked on. Some planes will give an immidiate warning that a missile is inbound once the rocket is fired through EWAC but it will give no warning that it is being locked on or that aircraft is right behind them. Just a suggestion, what do u think?

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Old 01-16-2008, 07:22 PM   #2
Heskey

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Missles currently do not give the locking tone, they just give a tone when a lock is established.

As for not giving a lock-tone at all; would anyone then wish to fly planes as a result of the invisible wonder missles? = /

Doubt it. It's a no from me


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Old 01-16-2008, 08:41 PM   #3
BloodBane611
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I think the current system that was implemented with .7 is very good. No from me as well.



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Old 01-17-2008, 12:52 AM   #4
ralfidude

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allright then, its good as it is.

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Old 01-17-2008, 06:44 AM   #5
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You need to play a little more LOMAC. The difference between the other plane knowing you locked him is how you do it, and this you can do in 2 ways. Eiher active (Radar) or passive (infrared).
When you use radar aquisition your plane emits a signal and picks up the reflection returned by the target. The drawback to this is that the target knows it is being searched for, because it picks up your radar emissions, and depending on the targets ESM suite it can also make out if you are tracking it, scanning it, where your signal comes from, what kind of signal you emit etc. So in a sense you can lock your target, but your target also knows you are out there.
The other way is mostly via infrared. This system does not emit any signal, but it can obviously pick up infrared emissions. This is passive since it does not emit anything and so does not warn your target when you track him, so he won't know you are there.

If you have finally tracked a target you might want too shoot it, again this can also give away your position depending on the type of weapon you choose. I'll keep it short, but you can choose between AR (Active Radar), SAR (Semi-Active Radar) and IR (Infrared) missilies.

AR means your planes radar has to track the missiles target and relay information to the missile as to where the target is and what it is doing till it hits or misses. This means the target knows it is being tracked and probably knows where you are. Also if the link between your plane and the missile gets disrupted it will amost sure miss.

SAR means your planes radar gives directions to the missile till it gets close to its target, after that the onboard seeker of the missile takes over and leads the missile to the target so your planes radar is no longer involved.

IR missiles do not need active guidance, meaning that if you track your target using IR sensors and attack it by using IR missiles it probably won't be alerted.

But this is a very simple explanation, missiles can use any combination of seeker heads, can be guided in various ways and can be disrupted in many ways. Also IR sounds like the way to go, but it is shortranged compared to radar and is more affected by weather changes.
Bore sight is something different, it is one of the many ways in how to acquire a target. This can be by helmet(looking at it), in front, BOL(Bearing Only Launch) etc...

Here is a small LOMAC video where various ways of target acquistion can be seen, and I believe it is good entertainment . I hope it is clear, I have a higher quality version



There is much more, I believe whole libraries can be filled with info on this, and since I do not want to start a library I'll stop here
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:29 AM   #6
BloodBane611
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Quote:
IR missiles do not need active guidance, meaning that if you track your target using IR sensors and attack it by using IR missiles it probably won't be alerted.
Until you launch the missile, when sensors aboard the target have a high chance of detecting the launch.

Also, be aware that the current system is an IR system, and that radar isn't really possible or necessary.



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Old 01-17-2008, 12:51 PM   #7
ralfidude

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ahh well that sorta sums it up, when i mentioned BOAR i was totally off on that, all i know is that i hear people screaming in my ear when i get behind them with my radar turned off, close enough to touch the plane, and just lock on using one of those modes where their AWACS never picks it up, only after its fired do they "sometimes" try to avoid it, but by then due to the range the missile has enough energy to counter any counter measures, but usually they dont even flinch once iv fired it. I guess it might be their problem, but i know iv been shot down before without any way of knowing why the hell i just suddenly blew up 1800 feet in the air for no reason.... THen the reason being somebody did the same to me. But as u so gently already explained i guess its all good the way it is right now and im not gonna go further into this.

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Old 01-17-2008, 12:57 PM   #8
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Oh PS: iv only seen that system on the F15, the russian models dont have it.

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Old 01-17-2008, 02:24 PM   #9
Alex123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodBane611 View Post
Until you launch the missile, when sensors aboard the target have a high chance of detecting the launch.

Also, be aware that the current system is an IR system, and that radar isn't really possible or necessary.

Actually no, since there is nothing special happening at a missile launch. Though when within visual range you can see a smoketrail coming toward you that should give you an "aha" moment. But then again there are missiles that do not leave a smoketrail, such as the AMRAAM but I am not sure if all AMRAAM versions have a smokeless engine.

To quickly return to your question as to why sometimes planes cannot detect you when you are behind them is the fact that a plane has multiple sensors onto it to detect emissions, but they do not completely cover the whole plane and every angle from where a signal can come from. So they effectively can't see in some directions. So when you approach from such angles they probably won't see you coming. This holds for most planes, though I wouldn't be surprised if there were some that can detect emissions from every direction.

Furthermore, countermeasures like chaff& flare is more like rolling a dice unless you use some more advanced ECM.
A better way to avoid missiles when you cannot outrun them is flying a perpendicular path to them, so the missiles approaches you from the side. This way the missile has to constantly turn, causing drag and thus losing speed and kinematic energy making it hopefully easier to evade if it then still reaches you. To make clear why this works is the way missiles work. A missiles engine only burns for a short period after launch. During this time it builds up energy (speed) and then glides for the most part to its target. Obviously if the missile has to constantly turn it will lose lots off speed before it reaches you, or won't even reach you at all.

Oh and the russian planes like the SU-27 and MiG-29 have these systems in LOMAC too, but they require a little more work to operate.
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Old 01-17-2008, 02:46 PM   #10
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u know what i messed up on? I didnt mean AWACS, cuz that the big plane with radar, but i was reffering to the early warning system on board... thats it! Lol, well the thing in LOMAC as far as im concerned is that if u are behind a plane, and he doesnt know it, with ur radar turned off, and their AWACS is shot down, they dont know ur there. But, if the AWACS is there, then yes, they would know. But i always detect missile launch from enemy planes at me from my early warning system, thats a life saver, but from that system i was talking about, ya, it doesnt register. Its the one with the buzzing sound... god, im gonna go play lock on now and see what rocket it is and if it says the system name, that should clear that up a bit, lol.
CHaff+FLares dont do chit... and ECM hasnt really ever helped, however my violent corkcscrew manoucer 3 seconds from impact always evades them missiles!

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