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Old 2009-03-31, 14:00   #11
USA-Forever932

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Default Re: My most sucessful Infantry squad layouts.

Derailed thread has been DERAILED.

Anyway, the saw gunner is very important. It can be very successful in Ghost Train, Barracud a and many others. If no one took kits because they were saving them for some special moment kits wouldn't be needed ever. Kits are very important and medics can make sure that your AUTO rifleman can stay alive for a long time if he happens to get picked off. It's just a matter of making sure that your riflemen are attracting most of the the fire

What you said does have it's place though. Kits like the HAT, Sniper, AA and sometimes LAT should be reserved for special moments. But, when I was doing a mech infantry squad (6 infantry with 2 APC guys over xfire) in one of the previous versions I always had someone carry LAT because APC fights were usually about who started shooting first. The LAT guy would ensure that all APC fights were won by my group.

The SAW gunner can easily kill HMG positions if he starts shooting at it first. Putting a SAW in a good place and pointing out targets with my GLTD while another group flanks is how my squad managed to take Rock Fort in Op. Barra. Besides the few CAS strikes we had, 6 men taking on a flag is something very commendable.
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Old 2009-03-31, 14:10   #12
chimpyang

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Default Re: My most sucessful Infantry squad layouts.

Again, disagree. If everyone didn't take kits everywhere, we'd get a lot more milage and less of the oh ef, why are the extra limited kits not available?!!?!! when an APC rolls over the hill. Therefore you'd have assignations to specific "missions" or tasks as needed, unfortunately, that's not how it works in public play, and setting the example in how you would like to play is a principle rather than thinknig "well everyone else does it". The SAW kit can be useful ingame, but not enough that I'd sacrifice someone with a scope or a graplling hook to take it all the time.

Anyone with half a brain will go for your medics and SAW gunner first, they present the biggest percieved threat, plus, the SAW gunner usually lags behind so much to the squad given its role that it breaks up the squad....diving and conqouring.
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Old 2009-03-31, 23:59   #13
Gracler

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Default Re: My most sucessful Infantry squad layouts.

Many squadleaders go for 2 medics.... I don't really see the point of having 2!!!

Example 1.

Squadleader gets wounded and both medics rush to him and all 3 of you get a grenade or gets shot since the medics both had taken out there medic packs.......


Example 2. Both medics start an argument about ....do you get him up??? do I??? wasting time figuring it out in the middle of a firefight.

Ofcourse if your split in 2 it can be handy with an extra medic nearby but is'nt it true that the Medics have Lighter armour (atleast they had in BF2) so by having 2 easy medic targets and 1 lesser weapon (no grenades) id say 1 medic is enough.


Should that 1 medic get killed it only takes 1 click to pickup his kit and bingo.. your "medic" is alive again.


When im squadleader I ask for 1 medic....and 1 guy is gonna babysit/cover that medic when he is getting someone else up

Offence is the best defence......to often it happens that squads gets wiped because there where to many medics patching up wounded people and noone is able to cover the medic


6 men if 2 are medics and 3 people are wounded then 1 medic is risking his life while patchign up someone...would be better if that extra medic had a capable firearm and could give good cover untill the "real" medic was done with his job.

If your squad took a massive hit and the medic can't keep up then he can always just "play dead" and wait untill they think your all dead. Usualy works in the forest maps.
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Old 2009-04-01, 02:43   #14
PFunk

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Default Re: My most sucessful Infantry squad layouts.

I think what you guys are doing is limiting your tactics severely because you assume everyone is stupid.

I don't know how many times a SAW gunner has saved my ass. Saw gunners are the only way to effectively put fire down range at a high rate. I mean if we're gonna talk about likely ways your squad will perform badly the most common one is nobody shoots when you tell them to. With a saw gunner at least you can put 600 rounds per minute downrange by yelling at one guy.

To defend an area without an LMG is insane. Theres a reason that since WW1 the machine gun has been key in every small unit tactic.

Same for 2 medics. 2 medics are just 2 riflemen who have medic bags. They fire and fight and when someone is down one of them gets him up. If you're being a good leader you encourage your medics to NOT cease firing until the threat is gone or until you reposition your people so that you can focus on the casualty. You have 3 minutes to get a medic to revive someone. Thats an eternity. No need to be hasty.

All of this fail talk comes down to people not doing their jobs right. Saw gunners leading the charge, medics not using their rifles enough or people just not being smart and getting wasted for it.

Good squads use kits effectively. I've kept a SAW kit for 3 hours on karbala once, thats 3 hours moving into the dense city scape. A saw gun can hold a street hostage or pin a rooftop while 5 other guys rush in and take a cache.

Pessimism never got a squad leader anywhere.

That said, yes waste of kits is lunacy. No need to grab something if you don't intend on using it, therefore only assign your limited kits, don't let them take them. I immediately kick snipers who take it. "Go make a sniper squad then".

If you're crossing open desert and you face a Technical suddenly or you encounter enemy troops a SAW gun is the only way to give them the shock and fire downrange necessary to maneuver to assault their positions. Without the SAW gun you can't maneuver your squad sufficiently since 6 guys is too small to practically split up if you were just riflemen on semi auto.

The last PRT Battle I played on Saturday, the SAW gunner in one of our squads got 19 kills and one death.

[PR]NATO|P*Funk

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Old 2009-04-01, 05:35   #15
Mack Impact
Default Re: My most sucessful Infantry squad layouts.

Agreed with PFunk

In my opinion the SAW is more useful than the regular ACOG-rifleman, that only wants to engage the enemy at his own will with out calling targets before firing since he can. The SAW in good hands + occational attack mark from SL is a winning combo.

The first 3 kits squad should take (imo) are: Officer, medic, SAW
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Old 2009-04-01, 09:39   #16
cyberzomby
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Default Re: My most sucessful Infantry squad layouts.

Agreed as well I also like a grenadier that uses the nade's to surpress them. But having a LMG in your squad works wonders.
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Old 2009-04-01, 17:03   #17
Gracler

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Default Re: My most sucessful Infantry squad layouts.

Agree that the Saw is always nice to have.

I still don't agree that 2 medics is better than 1. like you said you got 3 min. to rescue whoever is wounded so why have 2 medics since only 1 can effectly heal under cover....Ofcourse as a medic you should fight down the threat, but seriosly how would you know when the threat is eliminated unless if you expect the enemy to be stupid and use autofire giving away there position. You may have shot the guy that wounded whoever, but that dos'nt mean that others are preparing a flank on you while they know you got a wounded guy and they are getting ready to shoot the medic+ the guy going black.

Thats the strategi i use if im the one attacking.... hit as many as possible (hopefully wound them so they cant move) then hold fire pretending they killed me.....go around....then knife the medic and everyone else that can't see shit for the blood effect.

Officer
Medic
Saw/Rifleman
Granadier/Rifleman
HAT/AT/rifleman
Specialist

if 1 guy is wounded then you still got 3 people with scopes + grenades + extra ammo for AT and 1 with a cover fire weapon.

If your enemy is'nt tactical then yes 2 medics can be great since you won't need to worrie about flanks or any other tactical attack comming down on your 2 medics...besides if you consider yourself a skilled squad why would you need 2 medics in the first place? unless if your doing a rambo move outnumbered vs a heavy fortified encampment.

Actualy i prefer the medic weapon (in the forrests) but 2 or 3 well placed grenades is often better than spending time patching up your buddies because they got shot by an enemy LMG that you coud'nt get a clear shot on.
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Old 2009-04-01, 21:25   #18
USA-Forever932

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Default Re: My most sucessful Infantry squad layouts.

The reason this strategy has two medics is so that each fireteam can function as it's own unit. I've had fireteams move distances so far from each other that the two medics were needed in order to keep the teams functional. The medics both ran out of epipens several times during a game because of the fact that we had our medic tactics solid and cold! Yes, the medic functions very well as a rifleman when the SL uses his attack markers and GLTD to make accurate fire at long ranges possible with irons.

Your arguments only work if the squad leader doesn't know what he's doing. Even in this case, yelling at your SAW gunner to get back is something I find myself doing very often. It comes with being SL, it's your job to maintain cohesion and order within a squad. If you're not doing that then you aren't doing your job as an SL. I've had SAW gunners who are new at the job learn quickly by simply telling them that they have to stay back and provide cover fire where I direct it, when I direct it from where I direct it. It was tiring, it was taxing and it was difficult but that's what PR is. However, when all of the effort paid off and the squad got more used to the fighting style, we accomplished our mission. The Suppression team suppressed and the assault team removed rallies and destroyed squads from behind.

The only time your arguments work is when PR players are reckless, this argument could also be turned on other things. "Eff! Why are there no tanks or APCs around." "Yeah, we should have saved them." This obviously doesn't work, what would the result be if this was the mindset of the MEC team on Kashan? The US would overwhelm their infantry. This is the same thing on Ghost Train. If your infantry aren't using the weapons when the firefights erupt, you won't have the time to run back to the truck to get them for those "Special moments." You have to have them when you're in the jungle and when you're moving between because those are when the important, game turning firefights actually occur.
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Old 2009-04-02, 09:02   #19
PFunk

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Default Re: My most sucessful Infantry squad layouts.

^
Absolutely true. Another good reason to have 2 medics is redundancy. Should one medic go down, especially since .85, its nice to have another one. Your squad's survival is leaning on that medic, having two can have a hugely significant effect on things.

I mention .85 especially since kits now vanish in 30 seconds. I've very often seen it that by the time someone goes to grab that medic kit and revive people it has vanished. And where are you then? You're down to 4 people or fewer usually, cause if you can't get that kit back in 30 seconds its a significant contact you're dealing with.

Plan for the worst, and work up from there. There is nothing wrong with the iron sights of the medic kit anyway. If you're using proper suppression techniques you're not even trying to hit as accurately as an ACOG lets you. Plus its nice to have an iron sight around for when you assault a building and even if you have a dedicated assault fireteam, your BOF team will have to assault every now and then. It just happens that way.

What is a second medic, if nothing else? A tactical reserve.

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Old 2009-04-02, 17:54   #20
USA-Forever932

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Default Re: My most sucessful Infantry squad layouts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunk
Absolutely true. Another good reason to have 2 medics is redundancy. Should one medic go down, especially since .85, its nice to have another one. Your squad's survival is leaning on that medic, having two can have a hugely significant effect on things.
Also, with the 2nd medic, you have the ability as an SL to send self sufficient groups out and not have to worry about your own group not having a medic or the forward group not having a medic. This increases the distance the groups can move from each other. Very useful for long bridges or other choke points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunk
I mention .85 especially since kits now vanish in 30 seconds. I've very often seen it that by the time someone goes to grab that medic kit and revive people it has vanished. And where are you then? You're down to 4 people or fewer usually, cause if you can't get that kit back in 30 seconds its a significant contact you're dealing with.
Smoke screens don't take that long to puff up, get your rifles shooting down range and get the guy back up in 20 seconds. I also think that kits, while not able to be picked up, can instead be regained if you are revived by a medic in the vicinity of the kit that you had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunk
Plan for the worst, and work up from there. There is nothing wrong with the iron sights of the medic kit anyway.
Yes, they are quite good! They are great for close quarters battle, covering the flank of a spotting SL and a suppressing machine gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunk
If you're using proper suppression techniques you're not even trying to hit as accurately as an ACOG lets you. Plus its nice to have an iron sight around for when you assault a building and even if you have a dedicated assault fireteam, your BOF team will have to assault every now and then. It just happens that way.
That's true, the pistol and iron sights go well together, just leave the automatic rifleman about 50m behind you while you try to push forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by PFunk
What is a second medic, if nothing else? A tactical reserve.
More than that! The second medic can function to make your group more self sufficient, not just in reserve but in full use as a combat medic. "You stab with pens and I'll use the bag." I've seen this work wonderfully in squads, even two man medic groups where one medic would purposefully suppress while the other one did the healing work. It kept the medics safe and allowed the other members of the squad to concentrate on the enemy while they were constantly revived by the independent medic group.
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