Penalties for dying in Insurgent factions

[waldov]

As the title says. Obviously unlimited tickets is a necessary balance for Insurgency mode to work but its effects on teamwork and serious gameplay is indisputably detrimental. Most insurgent players play unrealistically and with little care or value for there lives or consideration for cohesion and teamwork, because when you can die and re spawn 30 seconds later to rush your enemies again without consequence why should you care?

A potential disincentive for that attitude would be a penalty on your spawn times based off either how quickly you die (you die within 5 minutes you get a 60 second spawn time for example) or an accumulative penalty based off deaths (5 deaths 40 second spawns, 10 deaths 50 seconds etc.).

Now I know what everyone is thinking "the last thing insurgent factions need is more disadvantages!", which is true. But this system could be balanced out by introducing features that are not only advantageous for INS factions but further promote teamwork, and give them a chance at getting on Blufor levels of coordination.
Examples would be re-implementing rally points for all Insurgent factions, requestable kits for iraqi Insurgents, larger hideout cap etc. etc.

Overall I think it would have a positive effect as far as encouraging more teamwork and realistic (ie. fun and rewarding) play from Insurgents, without unbalancing the gamemode itself which is mostly ok. As for the feasibility of putting in such rules, im not sure but either way I thought it was an idea worth sharing.

[Ragnarok1775]

Kind of agree. Too many lone wolf or small squads with every member on different ends of the map, and no communication.

Keep in mind that real life insurgents do generally act without regard for their own lives, each other, or civilians. They are quite suicidal and known to dope up before a fight, so any change along these lines should be a penalty that interferes with accomplishing their mission rather than punishment for dying, if that makes sense.

[Brotherscompany]

lm really glad that trie to come out with a solution to a problem which haunts PR players mentality.
This would make possible for INS to be seen as a more tacticall game mode instead of all the players saying: Fuck INS

l see one problem here, if you apply time penalty for amount of deaths you run into trooble when seeding servers. INS in that game damn map Falujah is the seeding map for every server, the players that aint AFK seeders usually have somewhere like 30 deaths when the game kicks in with more people.
lt would defenilly have to be based on how long you lived but you would also have the problem of people getting killed by BLUFOR close to hideouts or spawncamping. Either way lm sure DEVS can make this work out throw some testing to get the best timers.


One of my sugestions that l made and didnt get acepted in this fóruns
was one of adding like 5-10 sec if you give up before that 1 minute passed. l realise that doesnt do much but it would prevent people for giving up straight away and make medics actually vailable as a class to choose knowing you would get to work

Over all l guess it comes down to mentality of SQLs also. lf you start imposing yourself you can start running a Squad and you would see a lot more team work instead of making a squad and just not caring about it

[waldov]

Originally Posted by fenriz9000

s Adding penalty for death to insurgents will not increase teamplaying, its just adding more time they will spawn and therefore much less players will like to play as insurgents.

You missed the part where I said the Insurgent factions would need some positive additions (preferably teamwork based) to balance out the introduction of penalties.

Originally Posted by Brotherscompany

l see one problem here, if you apply time penalty for amount of deaths you run into trooble when seeding servers. INS in that game damn map Falujah is the seeding map for every server, the players that aint AFK seeders usually have somewhere like 30 deaths when the game kicks in with more people.

Thats a good point, a penalty based on time alive would probably be better for that reason, no need to punish people for being on the server longer than others.

Originally Posted by Ragnarok1775

Keep in mind that real life insurgents do generally act without regard for their own lives, each other, or civilians. They are quite suicidal and known to dope up before a fight, so any change along these lines should be a penalty that interferes with accomplishing their mission rather than punishment for dying, if that makes sense.

Not to get off subject but most insurgents faced in Iraq and Afghanistan were paid, local, on and off fighters and for every suicide bomber there was dozens more insurgents who surrendered themselves over the moment things went south. The selfless die-hard fanatic is more of a (propaganda worthy) exception then a general modus operandi.

[Ragnarok1775]

Originally Posted by waldov

Not to get off subject but most insurgents faced in Iraq and Afghanistan were paid, local, on and off fighters and for every suicide bomber there was dozens more insurgents who surrendered themselves over the moment things went south. The selfless die-hard fanatic is more of a (propaganda worthy) exception then a general modus operandi.

Your experience and mine seem to be quite different. Though I did see a lot of blind fire over a wall around a corner and run away, never saw hordes of surrendering insurgents.

[Ragnarok1775]

To make medics more important we should only have one per squad. That is realistic, actually we had one per platoon plus one with company HQ. That was a suggestion I threw out there but it didn't get approved, guess it might activate the almonds too much. Meanwhile I see people suggest silly crap and it at least gets discussed before being shot down.

Personally I prefer insurgency, it's a lot of fun to sneak around, ambush, Allahu Akbar myself to kill infidels, inshallah we will actually win one day but it's still fun even losing, more than AAS.

[fenriz9000]

sorry for interrupting your brilliant idea, but can you please describe what exactly you would like to see? Adding penalty for death to insurgents will not increase teamplaying, its just adding more time they will spawn and therefore much less players will like to play as insurgents. Currently, if you check balance at starting ins map, you will see that alot of players wanna switch from ins to conventional, this indicates that they dont want to play as insurgents already. Its just stupid to think that penalties can make INS side more interesting.

[bahiakof]

I'll be honest. The biggest villain of teamwork in Project Reality is called "BUTTON GIVE UP."

4fun player: "I'm not going to wait for the medic, or worry about dying and losing a lot of tickets and this will lead my team to defeat, and you know why? Because there's a button called "give up", and I'll always continue using this button and always playing the wrong way and always dying and harming everyone on the team, because what matters is my fun."

[Ragnarok1775]

Originally Posted by bahiakof

I'll be honest. The biggest villain of teamwork in Project Reality is called "BUTTON GIVE UP."

4fun player: "I'm not going to wait for the medic, or worry about dying and losing a lot of tickets and this will lead my team to defeat, and you know why? Because there's a button called "give up", and I'll always continue using this button and always playing the wrong way and always dying and harming everyone on the team, because what matters is my fun."

Absolutely right, but insurgency mode doesn't have tickets for the bad guys, unless you consider a cache to be a ticket. They just get killed too easily and are basically cannon fodder, since squads won't work together and coordinate ambushes, plant IEDs, diversionary attacks while a VBIED rolls in, etc. Stuff you could easily do with 12 people or so. Probably the only time I saw real teamwork in insurgency was a YouTube video where two people were driving trash trucks and one driving the actual gary.

Probably should get rid of the give-up button and lower the respawn time to compensate for that. Or at least disable it for 30 seconds or so. Make dying suck again.

[bahiakof]

Originally Posted by Ragnarok1775

Absolutely right, but insurgency mode doesn't have tickets for the bad guys, unless you consider a cache to be a ticket. They just get killed too easily and are basically cannon fodder, since squads won't work together and coordinate ambushes, plant IEDs, diversionary attacks while a VBIED rolls in, etc. Stuff you could easily do with 12 people or so. Probably the only time I saw real teamwork in insurgency was a YouTube video where two people were driving trash trucks and one driving the actual gary.

Probably should get rid of the give-up button and lower the respawn time to compensate for that. Or at least disable it for 30 seconds or so. Make dying suck again.

In the insurgency mode there is also this problem, because for each insurgent killed, the Blufor team gains a point of intel, and when the team blufor accumulates 50 points the cache is revealed.

And even with the cache revealed the 4fun players continue to confront the Blufor face to face and end up dying frequently and with that reveal the second cache. And because the team is not organized to defend two caches, it ends up losing one cache and then the other cache.

The "Give up" button allows 4fun players to spoil teamwork.