project reality header
Go Back   Project Reality Forums > PR:BF2 Mini-Mods > PR:WWII General Discussion > PR:WWII Suggestions
17 May 2022, 00:00:00 (PRT)
Register Developer Blogs Project Reality Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
PR:WWII Suggestions Suggestions from our community members.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 2021-11-04, 08:04   #1
dcm
Default Improving and Balancing WW2 Infantry Gameplay

I like World War 2. It's a fun vacation from the modern day and near modern day theaters of war, in standard PR. However WW2 has a few issues that need to be ironed out. Mainly, WW2 is not well balanced for one team; the German team. The fact of the matter is, that the M1 Garand out shoots it's counterpart rifle on the German team; the KAR98K, by a very wide margin. The aforementioned Garand rifle, is semiautomatic, which blesses it with a huge rate-of-fire advantage over the bolt-action Kar98k. The advantage of the M1 garand is so great, that in certain situations the rifle by itself and in sufficient quantity, can and will make up for the firepower disadvantage of the American team's standard automatic rifle the BAR. In comparison the German team's automatic rifle the MG34 can not make up for the Kar98k's firepower deficiency. I do not believe that giving every player on the German team a semiautomatic rifle, is a desirable solution. I do believe the following changes should be implemented or at the very least considered for PR:WW2.


1. The MG42 should replace the MG34 as the German team's default automatic rifle, on all applicable maps. The MG34 while superior than the BAR, does not make up for the firepower disadvantage of the standard bolt action rifle. The MG42 does. After learning to properly utilize the MG42. I myself find the MG42 so good in the squad automatic role, that when my squad is able to attain a machine gunner kit, we sometimes no longer have need for an automatic rifleman at all. The machine gunner kit completely supersedes it. The MG34 does have some advantages to it. The ability to use semi automatic fire for one. And the slower rate of fire may be a benefit to a select few. I believe that the MG42 should supplant the MG34 in the automatic rifleman role. And the MG34 should be moved to the Alternate Machine Gunner kit, to be left as an option for those want to use it and/or know how to use it.


2. The ability for the Automatic rifleman to be able to select a Submachine gun or Assault Rifle, should be removed. The automatic rifleman must be restricted to using machine guns only. I can recall several instances where my squad's automatic rifleman choose a submachine gun instead of a proper machine gun and screwed over the squad's ability to establish a base of covering fire. This issue is much more prevalent on the German team as they have access to an Assault rifle on certain maps. And their Alternate Automatic Rifleman also receives hand grenades.


3. The submachine gun and/or assault rifle must be moved to another non squad leading kit, to be able to provide fully automatic fire support for the squad, who is not an officer, automatic rifleman or machine gunner. The obvious choice that many would point to, would be Pointman, but I disagree. The pointman is already the best kit in PR:WW2. Not only does he have access to self loading rifles, he also has access to something that his future theater counterparts do not have; Smoke grenades. In WW2 smoke grenades provide a large advantage due to the lack of Infrared sighting scopes, that would normally be able to see through the smoke. Giving the pointman a fully automatic weapon would imbalance him and make him overpowered. No, the only other choice is an 'NVA Grenadier' type scenario. Wherein each team's alternate grenadier would be issued a submachine gun; a Grease Gun or MP40 respectively, with extra hand tossed grenades. This alternate grenadier should not be issued as many hand grenades as the nva grenadier. I believe that, 2 frag grenades and 2 smoke grenades would be sufficient. How important are launched rifle grenades? Hard to tell. There are situations where you need fully automatic firepower and expedient hand tossed grenades, in contrast to the slow and laborious nature of rifle grenades. The ideal solution would be an Assault Trooper/Sturmtruppen spawnable kit. However there is no place to fit such a kit on the spawn screen kit selection menu. Without displacing another necessary kit.


4. The Kar98, G43, BAR and FG42, all need extra ammo.

-The standard Kar98 rifleman kit, has less than half the total ammo than what the M1 garand has. 45 rounds vs 96 rounds respectively. Some kar98's are given a total of 60 rounds. I find that to be the bare acceptable minimum when using the kar98. 60 rounds should be issued to the kar98 rifle for any and all kits.

-The G43 has a total ammo count of 70 rounds. I find that slightly low. I believe that the G43 should be issued an extra two magazines, bringing up the total to 90 rounds. To better compete with the M1 Garand.

-The BAR and FG42 are machine guns, and sometimes 140 rounds is not enough. I find through personal testing and observation, that the average BAR/FG42 gunner depletes around 60-80 rounds in a typical squad level firefight. Giving them each an additional 40 rounds or two magazines would go a long way in alleviating ammo anxiety.


5. The German Rifleman Anti-Tank kit or 'LAT' is superior to it's American counterpart. The standard german LAT kit has two anti-tank weapons; The Panzerfaust and Geballte Ladung. The sole american LAT kit only has one rocket, one frag and one smoke, just as the alternate german counterpart does. I highly recommend that an alternate american LAT kit be introduced with an additional method for destroying vehicles. Ideally an american anti tank grenade. More likely, furnish the alternate LAT kit with two rockets for it's Bazooka(instead of one), in exchange for the fragmentation grenade. That way you trade off indirect killing potential for direct killing potential. If that is still too powerful, then remove the M1 Carbine and give instead for a primary weapon the M1911A1 pistol, but retain the fragmentation grenade. Because as much as I dislike the M1 carbine, it is still superior to any pistol for combat duty. Third option. Give the standard american LAT kit an M1 Garand in exchange for the fragmentation grenade. And give the alternate LAT the M1 Carbine with two rockets, a fragmentation grenade and a smoke grenade.


6. Germans on Omaha need logistics trucks. There is nothing more frustrating than not being able to deploy a fob on omaha beach as german team, because you need to make two trips with a transport truck to drop enough medium crates. The issue is not prevalent in the beginning of the round, but more towards the middle. Even having one logistics trucks that spawns in late, say a ten minute delay, would alleviate alot of issues. Or god forbid, having multiple non-respawning logistic trucks in the beginning of the round would also be a practical solution.
dcm is offline
Last edited by dcm; 2021-11-04 at 08:09..
Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-04, 10:54   #2
[R-MOD]Nate.
Forum Moderator
Project Reality Beta Tester
Supporting Member

Nate.'s Avatar
Default Re: Improving and Balancing WW2 Infantry Gameplay

If you think WW2 is unbalanced vs the US, and you wish to maintain the unique playstile of WW2 PR, you should work on pronouncing the differences between the factions instead of trying to make GER and US play more alike. US and GER should play quite differently because of their doctrines. The funny task is to make both rewarding.

Comparing your argumentss to insurgency, basically you're arguing that insurgents should get scopes and body armor because they are out-scoped by Blufor, when the right approach should instead be to give them more booby traps and buff civis (or something).


Quote:
Originally Posted by dcm View Post
The advantage of the M1 garand is so great, that in certain situations the rifle by itself and in sufficient quantity, can and will make up for the firepower disadvantage of the American team's standard automatic rifle the BAR.
.. and I would argue the MGs, FG, G43, MP40 & StG easily up for the firepower disadvantage of the K98k on a squad level -> play as a squad and you're not outgunned.

Quote:
I myself find the MG42 so good in the squad automatic role, that when my squad is able to attain a machine gunner kit, we sometimes no longer have need for an automatic rifleman at all.
Means you're not that outgunned after all if one MG42 and a bunch of rifles is better than MG42 and MG34

Quote:
I can recall several instances where my squad's automatic rifleman choose a submachine gun instead of a proper machine gun and screwed over the squad's ability to establish a base of covering fire.
Squad Leader issue, he can just tell him what fits the Squad's needs better. If you plan on assaulting CQB, grenades are more handy than a weapon that only works in deployed mode.

Quote:
Wherein each team's alternate grenadier would be issued a submachine gun; a Grease Gun or MP40 respectively, with extra hand tossed grenades. This alternate grenadier should not be issued as many hand grenades as the nva grenadier. I believe that, 2 frag grenades and 2 smoke grenades would be sufficient. How important are launched rifle grenades? Hard to tell.
Sounds good although I suspect the rifle grenadier would not be picked then anymore (because rifle grenades are bit awkward/slow).

Nate. is offline Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-05, 23:36   #3
dcm
Default Re: Improving and Balancing WW2 Infantry Gameplay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate. View Post
If you think WW2 is unbalanced vs the US, and you wish to maintain the unique playstile of WW2 PR, you should work on pronouncing the differences between the factions instead of trying to make GER and US play more alike. US and GER should play quite differently because of their doctrines. The funny task is to make both rewarding.
Pronouncing the differences only goes so far. German team feels under powered in a majority of cases. There is no feasible way to buff the kar98 without breaking ww2 as a whole. There-go the weapons supporting the kar98 need to be; not outright buffed, but made more available and immediate to more squad members. Without sacrificing and compromising the function of their intended roles(E.G. Automatic rifleman running with an mp40 or stg.44 instead of a proper mg).

Quote:
Comparing your argumentss to insurgency, basically you're arguing that insurgents should get scopes and body armor because they are out-scoped by Blufor, when the right approach should instead be to give them more booby traps and buff civis (or something).
I never said that the insurgents team should be given equipment parity with blufor. That would make it boring. I suggested restructuring the insurgent spawnable kits to be more usable and less repetitive in function. And giving insurgents more immediate access to special weaponry such as the SVD and RPG. Because that is what's sorely needed. I still can not understand why insurgents can not request rifleman kits at all.


Quote:
.. and I would argue the MGs, FG, G43, MP40 & StG easily up for the firepower disadvantage of the K98k on a squad level -> play as a squad and you're not outgunned.

Squad Leader issue, he can just tell him what fits the Squad's needs better. If you plan on assaulting CQB, grenades are more handy than a weapon that only works in deployed mode.
But at what cost? A squad leader should not be the one assaulting a position. It's fine for him to have an SMG for self defense, but usually he is the only one who gets and SMG and is forced to assault positions himself. If the german automatic rifleman is using the smg, then he just screwed his squad over in providing fire support. I dont like it. It's almost like a sophie's choice scenario.


Quote:
Means you're not that outgunned after all if one MG42 and a bunch of rifles is better than MG42 and MG34
Outgunned? No. The MG42 bridges the gap in firepower to equal that of a US squad.

Hypothetically if and when other factions are introduced into WW2 that do not have ready access to semi automatic firearms, then maybe it would be appropriate for the germans to be restricted back to the MG34. Like say in the eastern front or going up against the british. However if the japanese and italians are introduced, then the american advantage in firepower superiority will rear it's head again.



Quote:
Sounds good although I suspect the rifle grenadier would not be picked then anymore (because rifle grenades are bit awkward/slow).
Well then who else should rock an SMG? The only other real option is the pointman. But you would have to nerf the pointman using the smg in some way to make him feel less overpowered. The only thing that could possibly work, would be to reduce him down to one frag grenade. Give up smokes for an smg? May not be such a difficult decision for most people. I appreciate the tactical value that smoke grenades provide in WW2. Few others do.
dcm is offline Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-06, 11:34   #4
Coalz101

Coalz101's Avatar
Default Re: Improving and Balancing WW2 Infantry Gameplay

World War 2 is always going to be balanced until the USSR shows up. Then Germany is going to get steamrolled like they did in real life. If you're complaining otherwise it's a skill and strategy issue then, try something new for once instead of the same rushing in guns blazing with a bolt action rifle.

I don't understand why people think SMGs are the gods of world war 2, They are not, just use the g43 because its the better all rounder for germans.

Coalz101 is offline Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-06, 23:28   #5
dcm
Default Re: Improving and Balancing WW2 Infantry Gameplay

Again, you people are putting personal feelings above fairness and gameplay. It's irrelevant to the player on the ground who won or lost a historical conflict. All they care about is having a good time. And in order to have a good time, things must be fair, fun and balanced.
dcm is offline Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-08, 03:06   #6
Grump/Gump.45

Grump/Gump.45's Avatar
Default Re: Improving and Balancing WW2 Infantry Gameplay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coalz101 View Post
World War 2 is always going to be balanced until the USSR shows up. Then Germany is going to get steamrolled like they did in real life. If you're complaining otherwise it's a skill and strategy issue then, try something new for once instead of the same rushing in guns blazing with a bolt action rifle.

I don't understand why people think SMGs are the gods of world war 2, They are not, just use the g43 because its the better all rounder for germans.
Once the British and USSR factions come up its going to be alot of bolt action sounds, a lot of hand to hand knife tactics. In close combat a long time ago, when bolt actions were new the knife you carried was your backup weapon you could actually expect to use. Weapons need to stay the way they are for Germans. Change your fighting style and methods for your weapon.
Grump/Gump.45 is offline Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:04.