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PR:Falklands General Discussion General discussion of the Project Reality Falklands modification.

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Old 2012-10-06, 08:23   #1
40mmrain
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Default Falklands feedback general

Scimitar is exceptionally uncounterable in the night layer, its thermals make it a nightmare for Argentinians, the SPG and Bazooka are worthless enough, but at night it's impossible.

ARgentines lack deployable AA which they need. The heavy anti air missiles have a much to long lock time especially for their short range. I dont know if this is actually a glitch or not, but whenever I try to place an AA it simply will never come up, I get an infinitely repeating "place asset" message, basically. Other players have experienced the same thing.

British air power, and armour is superior. The guided GBUs are terribly useful if a proper sniper team is set up, and the argentines have no LGBs, this is plain imbalance, further still the argentine jets take longer to get back to their airbase, giving the brits a large advantage at being able to resupply. Finally, the exocet anti shipping mirage is hard to be useful after the conveyor is dead, which is really quite easy and doesnt require an exocet, once you've used your 2 AA-11 which could both miss, and evenif they hit close are not that useful (see jets dont bleed out below), and you would then have to fly for a few minutes to and from base rearming and such. I dont have a problem with rearming that takes a while, you can subvert this by using lots of guns, but the mirage with the exocet has no guns!

The huey only has 30 flares, the skyhawk 15. IS this intentional, it's half of what it normally is.

The skyraider's rudders act all wonky, makes it harder to make fine adjustments for CAS runs, hopefully the pucara is better.

Of every game i've played the british have won, everytime, all the flags just seem impossible to do defend, and the argentinians just get kind of wedged back into their main. I've tried tirelessly to dig in on teal, malo, and fitz, but we only get annihilated by CAS, of which we have nothing to defend against but the strela, which wont kill a harrier in one hit even if it lands right next to him, and jets dont bleed. We get blasted by the scimi from 1000m well out of the range of our own spg and HAT, mortars, of which there is no cover, and foxholes will get destroyed by. The only thing that could ever help is friendly jet support, but considering the time it takes for them to get to land, and the lack of any guided weapons it's incredibly difficult for the to do so, even if theyre trying to.

Reduce the sea harrier number by one, so the argentines have some air advantage, give them deployable AA, and they need some armour themselves.

jets dont bleed out, which is a little silly. I agree with slowing down the bleedout considerably, to the point where it's possible to make emergency landings, but it's also silly when you blast a jet with a missile, and he has fire shooting out his engine, but sees no drop in performance or anything, then lands at base 10 minutes later.

I noticed some strange damage values for certain guns. I managed to hit the chinook with at least 20 rounds of 20mm from the skyhawk's cannon and he barely smoking white. I also, was flying the huey from stanley to teal, and survived repeated gun and missile attacks from what felt like two harriers, I managed to take fire all the way and back only to blow up right in stanley. All choppers seem to have a strange amount of health.

It's just really painful to play infantry on this map, you feel so helpless. Most of the flags are really, just impossible to defend. Theyre tiny collections of houses youre packed into, subject to fire on all sides with no other cover. I dont know what can be done about that, it just feels very awkward and counter-intuitive fighting as inf, you just feel so unequipped and unable, and exposed, and out of control. I dont know if this can be helped, I dont know if it's bad or good, but it frustrates me. Every second you're dying, and being flanked, and being shot at with no cover from some direction. I played for hours and could never get properly dug in, or get a good fireline, or actually ever hold off an assault on a flag. Perhaps this is partly due to the overabundance of CAS and lack of counters for inf, combined with the actual small size of the east falkland, along with all the flags that need to be tended to at once. Teams become overextended, and flags are so close it's unfeasible to return fire, watch the sky for enemy CAS with your little MANPAD, and dig all at once. I might find it better when I have a 10 man squad, allowing me to have an AR, MG, grenadier and marksman laying down cover and smoke while 4 or 5 other men dig. I only found myself in the face of consistent overrunment when trying to defend, asking for shovels and suppression from everyone all at once. I wanted to attack but that would only leave the at least one of the two flags are usually need to be tended to undefended. As it stands it's only perpetually angering to be on the ground in the daylight. At night it's better for sure for inf. Maybe it's just new and no one is used to fighting on open ground like this, and we havent developed proper tactics for the maps, or maybe flag layers could be linearized.
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Last edited by 40mmrain; 2012-10-06 at 10:07..
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Old 2012-10-06, 11:53   #2
stifmyster1
Default Re: Falklands feedback general

Agree with alot of those. There needs to be alot more cover and some extra buildings.

also with night maps they need to be brighter. more like yamalia in term of brightness. I had my contrast and brightness on max and still couldnt see my own gun.
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Old 2012-10-06, 14:21   #3
sweedensniiperr
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Default Re: Falklands feedback general

the night map is good. I've won with argies.

However, even though it's cool that you made the flag layout as close to real battle it's a bit derpy. Two flags to attack for brits first. Then one and two flags to defend. And then again two flags to attack.

Also our squad accidentally baseraped the british main, but it wasn't actually their main but a fixed spawnpoint a grid above their main, in a really strategic position.

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Old 2012-10-06, 15:52   #4
Rapid12
Default Re: Falklands feedback general

Loving it so far. A reduction in jets is needed, or, alternatively, make use of the west island by putting in a couple of objectives there and including more transport choppers, that'll spread out jet attacks on infantry, which are very relentless.

The map is hard to read now because there's so much land to cram into the same space. Solution would be to allow better zoom, but I've a feeling such an obvious solution wouldn't have been merely overlooked by the Devs, so I guess it's 'hardcoded'.

I'm at A1, keypad 9, keypad 1. lol.
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:20   #5
pedrooo14
Default Re: Falklands feedback general

I see a lot of round woned by Argentinian forces, some of them was a real beating and we (arg side) make a good and strong defend. I think it dependes a lot of the air support of each team and good SQL.

Quote:
The huey only has 30 flares, the skyhawk 15. IS this intentional, it's half of what it normally is.
In the war, they don?t have any flares, or even a radar warning. So i think that number its ok to make a balanced but realistic fight.


One thing that i noticed, is that there is no apc for argentina. And we have Panhard light tanks, i know its in development but it would be great if dev?s can use a place holder. To make the thing more balanced.
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Old 2012-10-06, 16:27   #6
[R-DEV]​Rhino
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Default Re: Falklands feedback general

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
Scimitar is exceptionally uncounterable in the night layer, its thermals make it a nightmare for Argentinians, the SPG and Bazooka are worthless enough, but at night it's impossible.
Scimi is pretty powerful, need to increase its delayed spawn time and need to get an AML-90 for the Argies too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
ARgentines lack deployable AA which they need. The heavy anti air missiles have a much to long lock time especially for their short range. I dont know if this is actually a glitch or not, but whenever I try to place an AA it simply will never come up, I get an infinitely repeating "place asset" message, basically. Other players have experienced the same thing.
Shouldn't be like this, can anyone confirm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
British air power, and armour is superior. The guided GBUs are terribly useful if a proper sniper team is set up, and the argentines have no LGBs, this is plain imbalance
Seeing as there is only one jet that has a 20min delayed spawn with LGBs, and only the sniper the SOFLAMs, I haven't seen it be that effective myself yet.

Brits only get two other CAS jets which tbh I've not seen used to that much effectiveness yet, although I've found myself doing quite a successful gun runs on FB with the Sea Harrier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
further still the argentine jets take longer to get back to their airbase, giving the brits a large advantage at being able to resupply.
Argentine jets are faster and easier to land (although once you've sussed out how to vertically land the harrier well you can do it very quickly) but this was a fact of the battle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
Finally, the exocet anti shipping mirage is hard to be useful after the conveyor is dead, which is really quite easy and doesnt require an exocet, once you've used your 2 AA-11 which could both miss, and evenif they hit close are not that useful (see jets dont bleed out below), and you would then have to fly for a few minutes to and from base rearming and such. I dont have a problem with rearming that takes a while, you can subvert this by using lots of guns, but the mirage with the exocet has no guns!
[YOUTUBEHD]MZ9wZzerEZU[/YOUTUBEHD]

30secs in it says the cannon needs to be removed. Although its not the Super Etendard ingame carrying the Exocet, the MIIIEA that is, is representing it and uses the same cannons, although not sure if the Mirage also needs its cannons removed on its version that can carry the Exocet but at the end of the day its a PH for the SE.

One of the big gameplay reasons for removing the cannon is also so the jet can't do a gun run on the AC after firing its exocet at it, which if it did it could sink the AC on its own without any help from any team mates.

While yes, you don't need the Exocet to sink the ship, and if the Argie bombers do concentrate on bombing it then it can be destroyed before it even spawns but hopefully harriers will do CAP over the AC more as time goes on. Also hopefully in the future we will have more ships to sink but no promises there, someone needs to make them and I don't have the time

As for it "only having 2 AA missiles", in r/l the SE didn't carry any AA weapons in with its exocet (although it is possible for it to do so) so I could remove them all together if you like
TBH I don't have the same problems of missing with missiles that you seem to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
The huey only has 30 flares, the skyhawk 15. IS this intentional, it's half of what it normally is.
the UH-1H not sure about but the Skyhawk didn't have any countermeasures in r/l, in fact during the war they retrofitted one by shoving a load of foil into the air brakes of the A-4 so that when they opened they would act like Chaff but this was only a one use thing and its reliability is questionable

The idea for the A-4 is to get in, drop its bombs and get out as quickly as possible. Although its quite a formidable figther in a gun fight and pretty much on par with the Harrier, still not a good idea to do so as if missiles come into play your done for

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
The skyraider's rudders act all wonky, makes it harder to make fine adjustments for CAS runs, hopefully the pucara is better.
Ye, having been able to fully fix that yet. Hopefully Jafar will nail it in the future

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
Of every game i've played the british have won, everytime, all the flags just seem impossible to do defend, and the argentinians just get kind of wedged back into their main. I've tried tirelessly to dig in on teal, malo, and fitz, but we only get annihilated by CAS, of which we have nothing to defend against but the strela, which wont kill a harrier in one hit even if it lands right next to him
I've found the Argentine infantry with there full auto FM FALs quite hard to brake though if they are defending, or even attacking. I think you've had one or two rounds where brits had full air superiority if your really heavily getting hammered by CAS. In the Open Betas Argentine forces where winning quite a lot, my guess is the biggest problem is no deployable AA if its not working as you've said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
We get blasted by the scimi from 1000m well out of the range of our own spg and HAT, mortars, of which there is no cover, and foxholes will get destroyed by. The only thing that could ever help is friendly jet support, but considering the time it takes for them to get to land, and the lack of any guided weapons it's incredibly difficult for the to do so, even if theyre trying to.
Ye, Scimi at range is quite a problem and ye, only thing to easily hit is is really CAS right now if its sitting really far out but dumb bombing, once you've gotten use to it can be very accurate and overall, Argeis get more ground attack aircraft than the Brits and they generally carry more bombs / rockets (4 common ground attack aircraft to the Brits 2 common and one uncommon).

Also if your asking for guided bombs/missiles for the Argies, they didn't have any (other than the Exocet )

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
jets dont bleed out, which is a little silly. I agree with slowing down the bleedout considerably, to the point where it's possible to make emergency landings, but it's also silly when you blast a jet with a missile, and he has fire shooting out his engine, but sees no drop in performance or anything, then lands at base 10 minutes later.
Umm, jets do bleed out.
A-1H: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350
A-4: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350
Dagger: maxHitPoints 1000, criticalDamage 350
Mirage IIIEA: maxHitPoints 1000, criticalDamage 350
Sea Harrier: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350
Harrier GR3: maxHitPoints 900, criticalDamage 350

I often find myself bailing out from my plane being on fire. BTW black smoke doesn't = fire, a big flame coming out the back = fire and jet is "bleeding".
You may also want some more pratice with missiles, if your constantly missing with them or they are not killing in one shot, you should note the angles you are to the enemy jet, the direction and speed of the enemy jets, and where the flares are and then how the missile reacted. I can pretty well judge before firing a missile if its going to hit. For example I know that if a Mirage 3 is heading up and slightly away from me, trying to turn towards me with loads of flares coming out of the rear, I can easily direct my missile just in front of him for it to avoid the flares, and get around a 90% chance of a hit, 70% chance killing him with a direct hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
I noticed some strange damage values for certain guns. I managed to hit the chinook with at least 20 rounds of 20mm from the skyhawk's cannon and he barely smoking white. I also, was flying the huey from stanley to teal, and survived repeated gun and missile attacks from what felt like two harriers, I managed to take fire all the way and back only to blow up right in stanley. All choppers seem to have a strange amount of health.
They have the normal HP choppers have in PR, which is really, really bad. Chinook for example has a maxHitPoints of 1700, compared to the A-4s 900....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
It's just really painful to play infantry on this map,.......
I think you need to change and develop your tactics to suit the open terrain and the assets you have available to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweedensniiperr View Post
Also our squad accidentally baseraped the british main, but it wasn't actually their main but a fixed spawnpoint a grid above their main, in a really strategic position.
Was one of the landing beaches:

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Old 2012-10-06, 17:32   #7
pedrooo14
Default Re: Falklands feedback general

Quote:


30secs in it says the cannon needs to be removed. Although its not the Super Etendard ingame carrying the Exocet, the MIIIEA that is, is representing it and uses the same cannons, although not sure if the Mirage also needs its cannons removed on its version that can carry the Exocet but at the end of the day its a PH for the SE.

One of the big gameplay reasons for removing the cannon is also so the jet can't do a gun run on the AC after firing its exocet at it, which if it did it could sink the AC on its own without any help from any team mates.

While yes, you don't need the Exocet to sink the ship, and if the Argie bombers do concentrate on bombing it then it can be destroyed before it even spawns but hopefully harriers will do CAP over the AC more as time goes on. Also hopefully in the future we will have more ships to sink but no promises there, someone needs to make them and I don't have the time

As for it "only having 2 AA missiles", in r/l the SE didn't carry any AA weapons in with its exocet (although it is possible for it to do so) so I could remove them all together if you like
TBH I don't have the same problems of missing with missiles that you seem to.
When SUE is carring exocet, cant use cannons, aa missiles, absolutly nothing. Its only an air plataform for exocet.
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Old 2012-10-06, 18:01   #8
[R-DEV]​Rhino
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: Falklands feedback general

Quote:
Originally Posted by pedrooo14 View Post
When SUE is carring exocet, cant use cannons, aa missiles, absolutly nothing. Its only an air plataform for exocet.




While yes, the Super Etendard was never fitted with both AA missiles and an Exocet missile during the war, it is very possible for it to carry AA weapons with an Exocet.

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Old 2012-10-06, 18:06   #9
40mmrain
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Default Re: Falklands feedback general

ok thanks for the reply rhino.

yes im certain we cant make stationary AA I tried quite a few times. I think we just need to play more games and devise better infantry tactics, supplemented with AA.

Also jets do not bleed, i've seen this multiple times. I flew back to argentina with my mirage's engine on fire, and to the invincible with black smoke many times, these are perhaps glitches.
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Old 2012-10-06, 18:42   #10
MrTomRobs

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Default Re: Falklands feedback general

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40mmrain View Post
ok thanks for the reply rhino.

yes im certain we cant make stationary AA I tried quite a few times. I think we just need to play more games and devise better infantry tactics, supplemented with AA.

Also jets do not bleed, i've seen this multiple times. I flew back to argentina with my mirage's engine on fire, and to the invincible with black smoke many times, these are perhaps glitches.
I'm not entirely sure about the whole jets not bleeding out issue - i played a good few rounds on the VW server last night and got tagged by cannon fire a good few times but managed to get away but i was only able to make it back as far as port stanley before i saw flames in the rear view camera.

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