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PR:BF2 Suggestions Suggestions from our community members for PR:BF2. Read the stickies before posting.

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Old 2011-10-28, 14:46   #31
Stealthgato

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Default Re: Modify Mortar -> Firebase Damage System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dev1200 View Post
Mortars can get a little spammy tbh, but I've never really been on the receiving end of "spammy" mortars.
I have, many, many times. It's not fun.

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Old 2011-10-28, 15:11   #32
[R-DEV]​Psyrus
PR:BF2 Developer
Default Re: Modify Mortar -> Firebase Damage System

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Originally Posted by SGT.Ice View Post
And this reminds me of my 8th grade english class.
If you check my profile, under "Occupation", it'll probably come as no surprise
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Old 2011-12-02, 15:08   #33
Sgt. Mahi

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Default Re: Modify Mortar -> Firebase Damage System

I'm gonna bump this thread since I think this still is a problem. The suggestion is quite good.

Personally I think a good solution to more defensive gameplay around FOBs would simply making the foxholes invulnerable.
This way people still have a change to stay and defend the FOB. Of course a direct hit on a foxhole from a mortar round should kill the guys who are in it but the fox holes should still be "alive". This is a better simulation of actually fox holes which are dug into the ground.

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Old 2011-12-02, 18:49   #34
Stoickk

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Default Re: Modify Mortar -> Firebase Damage System

I think that a more logical solution to the situation here would be to remove the "bleeds" from deployable assets. Currently, all that is required to destroy a well prepared defensive fob is to lob a few mortar rounds in the vicinity. Once a mortar round lands within the splash damage radius of a deployed asset, that asset takes damage and begins to bleed. Depending upon the number of defending players occupying and available for repairs, as well as the number of assets deployed (ironically, the better dug in a position is, the worse shape they will be in after a mortar strike) it becomes a game of whack-a-mole trying to guess which assets are damaged and "bleeding" and trying to get everything shoveled back up before it bleeds out.

Mortars landing in or near stacks of sandbags should definitely cause damage to those assets. Sandbags are good at stopping bullets and shrapnel, but large caliber shells full of high explosive are going to damage the positions. In my opinion, however, it is not realistic to have the sandbags continue to bleed out until the whole position disintegrates. By removing the bleed, mortars would still be viable and combat relevant to soften up defensive positions, and a sustained barrage could knock down defensive assets. This is as it should be. However, it would remove the ability of a mortar crew to just spam 5-10 rounds on a FOB position then move on, knowing that the squad occupying the FOB can not adequately defend anymore, because if they don't run around like madmen repairing everything in that position, it will all magically go away in the next few minutes.

As an added afterthought, perhaps an alternative foxhole could be added for additional overhead cover. Something similar to the current BluFor style FOB, however instead of a small broken sandbag wall, raise the wall, and add solid overhead cover in place of a camo net. The position would be smaller and higher profile, but would offer overhead cover from mortar fire, particularly airburst munitions.

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Old 2011-12-02, 19:34   #35
Mikemonster

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Default Re: Modify Mortar -> Firebase Damage System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoickk View Post
..

Mortars landing in or near stacks of sandbags should definitely cause damage to those assets. Sandbags are good at stopping bullets and shrapnel, but large caliber shells full of high explosive are going to damage the positions.

..
Well if you're going to be exact the HE mortars should be pretty bad against the current 'foxholes', whereas Airburst would defeat them completely (no overhead protection).

Overhead cover would be cool to see. And it would also be more 'destroyable' because it could revert to the current foxhole if it was hit.

Out of interest, if a crate is dropped INSIDE a foxhole, is it protected from mortars?

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Old 2011-12-02, 22:55   #36
MaSSive

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Default Re: Modify Mortar -> Firebase Damage System

Quote:
To be honest, I think mortars should be removed.
Using the external program to calculate mortar strikes can put me and a few guys in a position to control a 1km diameter around the mortars if we have a good supply line.
No a calculator is mostly used in much more organized type of rounds ( high above any pubbing session ) - PRT and similar where any second of round matters a lot.

To be able to effectively use mortars you need a dedicated mortar squad in your team with not less than three and not more than five men. What you need more is a solid supply line cause mortars are very dependant on resources, so if your supply line is being cut off or you do not have a vehicle to keep supply line alive - you don't have mortar support. Next thing you need is a very good communication inside a team ( preferably all players or SL's on mumble ) to be very much effective with it.

Most of the arguments here are invalid, maybe with an exception of that foxhole thing. I agree on that they must be more resistant to fire but not indestructible. It should sustain constant indirect hits for some time, but this should not make anyone inside it invulnerable.

If you want to be a teamplayer make a squad that will have to go behind enemy lines, and sabotage supply routes, laze, spot or in any other way make mortar team a headache, buying to your team a time to advance if they move on the open and their position is under fire.

Removing mortars, or making them in any way different then they currently are is not for the sake of gameplay, its a just for the sake of few which had a bad experience few times.

EDIT: on a side note I think the argument of small maps ( 1 km ones ) is valid, and mortars should not be available on such maps


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Old 2011-12-02, 23:00   #37
Bringerof_D
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Default Re: Modify Mortar -> Firebase Damage System

Quote:
Originally Posted by billysmall44 View Post
I think mortars should be more used as a suppression technique more then demolition.
Another thing, Ive been in fox holes when being mortared and they don't seem to do anything special. any even if they did work, Air bursts would make them useless wouldn't they? Mortars are awesome, don't get me wrong, but they are totally replacing a few important game play aspects.
I haven't been in a squad were anyone used a combat engineer for a long time. Maybe it would be better if you had to use C4 to completely kill emplacements. Incendiary just disable them, but sooner or later to completely get rid of them it takes a combat engineer. In my mind that would make a lot more sense then calling in mortars to do that job.
that is the point of airburst. when calling a fire mission one should report the type of defenses. if trenches and the like are present, we use airburst instead of HE which we reserve for open ground. IRL of course this is reversed since HE is good for collapsing entrenchments and AB spreads shrapnel well for taking out INF in the open but thats a video game limitation thing.

Information in the hands of a critical thinker is invaluable, information alone is simply dangerous.
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Old 2011-12-04, 08:00   #38
[R-DEV]​Psyrus
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Default Re: Modify Mortar -> Firebase Damage System

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaSSive View Post
Most of the arguments here are invalid
Wholeheartedly disagree with the above.
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Old 2011-12-04, 23:31   #39
Bringerof_D
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Default Re: Modify Mortar -> Firebase Damage System

@op: i've created my own suggestion based on modifying the FOB which might also address the problem you are trying to here. please have a look and tell me what you think.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18...d-vehicle.html

i like your idea, but i feel it only deals with this one specific problem while possibly creating another. for example if it only disables spawning for a short time, then a well coordinated mortar team can disable use of every enemy FOB they know of for the rest of the round. My idea hopes to address this by allowing a well coordinated team to maintain an FOB's usability in the face of mortaring and other assaults which may temporarily disable spawn.

Information in the hands of a critical thinker is invaluable, information alone is simply dangerous.
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Old 2011-12-19, 01:29   #40
SamEEE

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Default Re: Modify Mortar -> Firebase Damage System

Some interesting thoughts in this thread: I would like to throw my ideas into the mix.

1) Add a heating element to the mortars - if they get too hot they first increase in deviation and then further heating risks cooking a round off in the tube leading to an untimely demise of the crew.

2) Make the quick deployment of 10-15 rounds possible per mortar. In a pinch a 81mm mortar can throw out a whole heap of bombs in a small amount of time. The offsetting factor would be the heating. Continuous operation of the mortar would require a lower fire rate.

I think what makes mortars less useful is their current fire rate - you can't get the massed firepower in a small time which is core to the doctrine of use of mortars.

I would also advocate for smaller maps the 60mm mortar being implimented as it is more appropriate for infantry operations at a company level. These have a slightly bigger blast than a 40mm grenade and a much higher fire rate than a 81mm mortar.

TL;DR - Higher rate of fire for mortars offset by the mechanic limiting the continuous operation at such a high rate of fire.
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Last edited by SamEEE; 2011-12-19 at 01:39.. Reason: TL:DR
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