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Old 2017-02-25, 12:52   #31
sweedensniiperr
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Default Re: Post Scriptum: The Bloody Seventh

Let's call it what is shall we then? PS is a squad clone in WW2.

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Old 2017-02-25, 14:41   #32
inb4banned
Default Re: Post Scriptum: The Bloody Seventh

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]KaB View Post
A free mod would have probably been able to achieve what they've done so far, but it would have probably taken more than 5 years. So it's up to you: give them a bit of money and allow them to do an awesome game in no time, or wait for 5 years before some modders decide to do the same thing for free, and for another 5 years before they manage to do something that looks like a final game (what PS could be soon), and probably for another 5 years in case they didn't get enough donations.
Or integrate it into the game and give modders % of new sales, no splitting of community, no paywall.
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Old 2017-02-25, 16:05   #33
Fir3w411

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Default Re: Post Scriptum: The Bloody Seventh

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Originally Posted by [R-CON]Zeno View Post
So you saying that you are too cheap to cash out on something that somebody have spent hundreds upon hundreds of hours on creating?

Its in their full right to take payment for their hard work, and free mods are not a rule, its a privilege.
If only there was a mod that's in the exact same circumstances but instead of requiring a payment, was totally free..... oh wait. Yea there's tons of mods that have done this for years and only recently has this paid mod shit come out. Come to think of it, this forum we're on right now just so happens to be an example!

Paid mods are a total joke and I can't believe you would defend it. Hold on I have an idea as to why you do.

My biggest concerns are: how many mods will do this and hopw will this affect the playerbase? First they said that if I don't like the main game, I can always play mods. THat's nice except I'll have to pay for any decently made mod with any decent playerbase....


"Sometimes you just gotta use torture tactics."
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Old 2017-02-25, 16:22   #34
KaB
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Default Re: Post Scriptum: The Bloody Seventh

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Originally Posted by inb4banned View Post
Or integrate it into the game and give modders % of new sales, no splitting of community, no paywall.
As I said previously, this cant work. If modders get royalties on their creations, then SQUAD devs should get some royalties on their creations too, being every single parts of the game.
It just doesn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Fir3w411 View Post
Paid mods are a total joke and I can't believe you would defend it. Hold on I have an idea as to why you do.
Counter Strike, Red Orchestra 1, Dayz, are now paid standalone mods based on another game's base engine (Half Life, Unreal Tournament, ArmA). Not sure why you keep throwing all this hate against PS which is no different from these ones.

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Old 2017-02-25, 16:38   #35
inb4banned
Default Re: Post Scriptum: The Bloody Seventh

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]KaB View Post
As I said previously, this cant work. If modders get royalties on their creations, then SQUAD devs should get some royalties on their creations too, being every single parts of the game.
It just doesn't make any sense.
How does it not make sense, people are more likely to buy a game where they get free mods too, many buy certain game just because of a mod, it lengthens game's lifespan and generates sales. Part of the money from those sales goes to modders, and majority stays with OWI...

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]KaB View Post
Counter Strike, Red Orchestra 1, Dayz, are now paid standalone mods based on another game's base engine (Half Life, Unreal Tournament, ArmA). Not sure why you keep throwing all this hate against PS which is no different from these ones.
Is that a joke? All of those were free mods, then later became standalone games built from scratch. If PS won't be free it'll never be a free mod and it's not being built from scratch either. There's no comparison.
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Old 2017-02-25, 16:48   #36
[R-DEV]​Rhino
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Default Re: Post Scriptum: The Bloody Seventh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fir3w411 View Post
If only there was a mod that's in the exact same circumstances but instead of requiring a payment, was totally free..... oh wait. Yea there's tons of mods that have done this for years and only recently has this paid mod shit come out. Come to think of it, this forum we're on right now just so happens to be an example!

Paid mods are a total joke and I can't believe you would defend it. Hold on I have an idea as to why you do.

My biggest concerns are: how many mods will do this and hopw will this affect the playerbase? First they said that if I don't like the main game, I can always play mods. THat's nice except I'll have to pay for any decently made mod with any decent playerbase....
Its been like this for years because the big games companies made it illegal to sell mods, only recently have some lifted the ban since people are now developing indie games, now we have the engines and tools to make them on, instead of being forced to piggyback off of the big game titles and only make the companies that developed them, more money, and not get anything back, money wise, ourselves...

I agree with you that "Paid mods are a total joke", to the extent that all those tiny modifications you see for some games that just add a single new weapon or tiny tweak would be a total joke yes, it would be like DLCs but without quality control. But for big, total convention mods, like PS would be, it really isn't, since you're getting an entirely new game experience out of what you had before.

This is also needless to say not all mods would need to be paid for, and would be best for mods to start out free, to grow their player and fan base while they are small and in early testing, to the point they can make them full mods. A very good example of where this has been done really well would be with Kerbel Space Program (KSP). Although its an indie game, it started off as a tiny little free game, where all it had was a really basic Kerbin planet with very simple space station, and all you could do was build a basic rocket and fly it out of the atmosphere, with no decent UI even to help you get into orbit (like it has now). As they developed things more and more they eventually put a small price tag on its head, as soon as they started to add moons to Kerbin and other big features. As time has gone on and its gotten bigger and bigger, it is now a full game costing £30 on steam, with a shit tonne of features, 35,930 reviews that are Overwhelmingly Positive and is one of steams top selling games. I should also note that players who brought the game early, didn't need to pay extra for the next version (for KSP), although that is one way you can go about it if you really want, but they just relied on funds coming in from new players to cover each versions development, not their loyal core player base, which got the new version for free, even thou I only spent something like £3 on the really early paid version of it, I still get the full £30 game for that price.

If we could have done the same thing with PR, with starting out as we did, but over time, be able to slowly put a price tag on its head, it would be so much bigger and better than it is now as many of us could have gone on to develop PR as a full-time job, and not just in our free time, and have people constantly moving on all the time.

I should also note that even if mods did start off with a big price tag, it would put a lot of people from trying/playing them, which would be a huge risk since if you don't get traction or reach "critical mass", your game won't take off and you would have blown it. So still a lot of incentive for even the big mods, to start off free, or with a low price tag at the very least.

So, just because PR:BF2 is technically a mod still (even thou it's released as a standalone game now, we just have to still call it a mod of BF2, even thou it uses very little from BF2 itself these days and is pretty much a total convention even when just considering content let alone gameplay...), do you think its right that it is still free when players are spending £50 on some crappy AAA game that is the same old sh*t recylced over and over again?

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by inb4banned View Post
Is that a joke? All of those were free mods, then later became standalone games built from scratch. If PS won't be free it'll never be a free mod and it's not being built from scratch either. There's no comparison.
No, that isn't true. Yes, all were free mods and yes, they then become standalone games you had you pay for (since like I said above, the agreements you click when installing the game of the past the game developers made, state you couldn't sell mods, so they could never sell it as a mod), BUT, none of them were made from scratch and all of them took the exact same content, on the exact same engine, tweaked them/improved them a bit, then released them as standalone games. Only later instalments like CSS, CSGO, RO2 etc (still waiting on DayZ 2 ) were made from scratch(ish).

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Last edited by [R-DEV]Rhino; 2017-02-25 at 17:07..
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Old 2017-02-25, 16:53   #37
Gosu-Rizzle

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Default Re: Post Scriptum: The Bloody Seventh

Quote:
Originally Posted by inb4banned View Post
Is that a joke? All of those were free mods, then later became standalone games built from scratch. If PS won't be free it'll never be a free mod and it's not being built from scratch either. There's no comparison.
On top of this, all those other ones (along with WC3 -> DOTA and BF2 ->PR/Squad) became popular because they brought fundamentally new gameplay to the game, whereas PS on the onther hand is aiming to keep it the same. Its a reskin of the main game, not a game changer and i dont see how that will bring in any significant amount of new players to our niche genre. And thats the biggest issue for me, i dont think theres enough players to keep a healthy playerbase when you spread it into seperate games. And remember this is the first mod for Squad, its setting the president for others to follow so who knows how many individual games we will get?
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Old 2017-02-25, 17:07   #38
KaB
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Default Re: Post Scriptum: The Bloody Seventh

Quote:
Originally Posted by inb4banned View Post
How does it not make sense, people are more likely to buy a game where they get free mods too, many buy certain game just because of a mod, it lengthens game's lifespan and generates sales. Part of the money from those sales goes to modders, and majority stays with OWI...
You seem unfamiliar with how companies work: OWI is represented by 1 person who takes care of the company's money. The rest of the team is made of people hired to do a job during a limited amount of time in exchange of money (salary). So those people who are sort of modders come and go depending on who OWI is needing them and what for.

If we follow your rule OWI should give royalties to each one of these people too, whose the number will keep growing over time? (the amount of modders will keep growing over time too).
OWI wouldn't ever be able to release a game with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inb4banned View Post
Is that a joke? All of those were free mods, then later became standalone games built from scratch.
Built from scratch? Not really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gosu-Rizzle View Post
On top of this, all those other ones (along with WC3 -> DOTA and BF2 ->PR/Squad) became popular because they brought fundamentally new gameplay to the game, whereas PS on the onther hand is aiming to keep it the same. Its a reskin of the main game, not a game changer and i dont see how that will bring in any significant amount of new players to our niche genre. And thats the biggest issue for me, i dont think theres enough players to keep a healthy playerbase when you spread it into seperate games. And remember this is the first mod for Squad, its setting the president for others to follow so who knows how many individual games we will get?
So you're saying it will split the community and decrease the playerbase, yet you say some other modders could decide to make paid mods as well... But if there's not enough players, who are they gonna sell it to?

Edit: @Rhino Minecraft is also a good example.

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Last edited by KaB; 2017-02-25 at 17:19..
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Old 2017-02-25, 17:13   #39
[R-DEV]​Rhino
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: Post Scriptum: The Bloody Seventh

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Originally Posted by Gosu-Rizzle View Post
Its a reskin of the main game, not a game changer
Why do people keep on going back to buy the next instalment of Battlefield, COD, and all those other "AAA games", that are basically reskins of their older versions, with no real gameplay changes?


I don't understand where you guys get so upset about this stuff, but if you think it is too expensive, quite simply, don't buy it, or if you think it after getting it, you can also refund it now on steam quite easily... But wouldn't you rather spend your money towards the people who are making the things you want to play, rather than the ones you don't? As that is what you all have been doing with PR for the last 10 years before it became standalone, you were giving money to EA/DICE for BF2, so you could play PR, which is the total opposite of what BF2 is and they have then used that money to make BFBC, BFBC2, BF3, BF4 and BF1....

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Old 2017-02-25, 17:39   #40
Gosu-Rizzle

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Default Re: Post Scriptum: The Bloody Seventh

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rhino View Post
Why do people keep on going back to buy the next instalment of Battlefield, COD, and all those other "AAA games", that are basically reskins of their older versions, with no real gameplay changes?


I don't understand where you guys get so upset about this stuff, but if you think it is too expensive, quite simply, don't buy it, or if you think it after getting it, you can also refund it now on steam quite easily... But wouldn't you rather spend your money towards the people who are making the things you want to play, rather than the ones you don't? As that is what you all have been doing with PR for the last 10 years before it became standalone, you were giving money to EA/DICE for BF2, so you could play PR, which is the total opposite of what BF2 is and they have then used that money to make BFBC, BFBC2, BF3, BF4 and BF1....
Im saying what KAB made was a false comparison, those other mods got popular on their groundbreaking gameplay compared to the originals, PS cant claim that. AND they didnt go standalone until after they proved themselves.
And i dont believe the casual mass marked that buys BF clones are much relevant here in our niece genre, but usually even they bring a few engine upgrades and new features at least.
But again like ive said a couple of times, its not about the money, its about the splitting of the playerbase. Squad is averaging between 500 and 2500 players throughout patch release cycles according to Steam Charts. If you split that into 2 or 3 there wont be much left for the least popular one, even if you think more players will join.
And the third one im talking about there could be this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/joinsquad/c...ent_in_5_days/
Its the next most hyped Squad mod, theyre doing a big announcement in 3 days.

TLDR: Its not that i dont want the modders to get payed, its that i want to be playing all these mods/games for a while, and i very much doubt ill be able to if they're split up.
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