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Old 2012-01-27, 16:36   #21
samogon100500

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Default Re: Kalashnikov AK-12 Unveiled

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrod200 View Post
The important bits:

1. Does it shoot?
2. Can you drag it through the mud, then a river, back through the mud then into the desert, give it a 10 minute brush, then still say yes to #1?
3. Can you bury it for 2 years, then move to step 2?
4. Can you buy one for next to nothing (ok probably not just yet, but is it reasonably cheap to make?)

The less important bits:

1. Is it more accurate than it's predecessors?
2. Is that quad stack magazine reliable? Such things have been tried in the past have they not, and found to be problematic?
3. Given that it can take NATO ammo, can it take STANAG magazines? Highly unlikely, but would make life a lot easier in any NATO/Warsaw conflict, being able to use ammo retrieved from hostiles as-is.

The 3 round burst was originally put onto the M16 to prevent troops from just emptying whole magazines at an enemy with no control; given that full auto is still available, I don't see how this can be anything but a good thing (unless the components to control it mean it fails important step 2).
Nice trolls.Specially for "Important" things.
1)Very fat.But they can.
2)Not sure thats construction changes a lot.Also in army you will be punished for this,even if you got old AKM.Just wait,when they came to insurgent cells,then we can answer for this question.
3)Never trust such stories.Even M16(Or other) can make shoot,but how much?1 or 2?
4)AK-74M costs for government - $130.Not sure,that added rails and new fire selector will make it much expensive.

Just my IMO.About less important things - no one known.

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Old 2012-01-27, 16:59   #22
Limeni[BiH]
Default Re: Kalashnikov AK-12 Unveiled

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Originally Posted by ShockUnitBlack View Post
Since when is the AK-47 unsexy?
Exactly my point, It's sexiness and it's reliability made it so popular.
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Old 2012-01-27, 17:19   #23
Harrod200

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Default Re: Kalashnikov AK-12 Unveiled

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Originally Posted by samogon100500 View Post
4)AK-74M costs for government - $130.Not sure,that added rails and new fire selector will make it much expensive.
For comparison, how much are the other 'new generation' Russian weapons to the govt? AN-94, AK-10x etc

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Old 2012-01-27, 18:22   #24
samogon100500

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Default Re: Kalashnikov AK-12 Unveiled

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrod200 View Post
For comparison, how much are the other 'new generation' Russian weapons to the govt? AN-94, AK-10x etc
AN-94 - don't know,but much more that AK-74.Maybe x5 times.
AK-100 series - same as AK-74 AFAIK,except for AK-107.
AK-200 - don't,know,not sure thats much more that 100 series.

Source - Wiki
Quote:
As of 2011, Izhmash sells the AK-103 at a government price of $150 to $160 (USD) per unit. [ 12 ] There are places around the world where an AK-47 type rifle can be purchased on the Black Market "...for as little as $6, or traded for a chicken or a sack of grain."

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Old 2012-01-28, 02:31   #25
PFunk

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Default Re: Kalashnikov AK-12 Unveiled

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Originally Posted by Polka View Post
It looks so dull
Super sexy looking space age M-16s were given to every guy who went to Vietnam, but I'm pretty sure more than a few picked up an AK instead at that time. I read one book about a Battalion commander who upon finding a dead VC with his weapon in a hole dug up by a bulldozer that was helping them set up a new FOB, hopped in the hole, grabbed his AK and said "Now look at how a real warrior's weapon works" and proceeded to fire this waterlogged mud invaded AK full auto til the mag was empty. The thing had been buried there for at least a year they figured.

I don't think looks matter to people that much when they're getting shot at.

[PR]NATO|P*Funk

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Last edited by PFunk; 2012-01-28 at 02:36..
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Old 2012-02-06, 12:42   #26
pr|Zer0

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Default Re: Kalashnikov AK-12 Unveiled

Same crappy pistol type sight, same magazine insert system(M16/M4 magazine insert is waaay much better and waaaay less proned to error), side folding stock is gonna make someone upset, especially if is right-handed(whats the point of folding stock anyway - can fire from the hip more accurately??) they should adopt telescopic (M4/MP5/G3 style) instead. Any soldier nowadays is using the sights so you need a stock for that. Also, a bolt catch would have been great.
Its just an modified AK47/74 with the possibility of mounting western optics who suffers from the same issues as AK ancestors except for modified safety/selector system. Ambidextrous charging handle is just useless when you have to use the right hand to insert a new magazine. Its just a rough and very reliable design who reached its limits.

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Old 2012-02-06, 13:21   #27
Zrix
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Default Re: Kalashnikov AK-12 Unveiled

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Originally Posted by pr|Zer0 View Post
(whats the point of folding stock anyway - can fire from the hip more accurately??) t.
It's super useful when you are not using the weapon, e.g. travelling in a vehicle or when it's on your back.



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Old 2012-02-06, 13:46   #28
Warpig-
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Default Re: Kalashnikov AK-12 Unveiled

Any well kept weapon system that's been learnt well will function well enough, that's why you learn drills and do your maintenance. The m16 was a brand new weapon with serious design flaws upon it's initial issue. If the weapon was so terrible, why are so many armies still using the AR 15 platform right now, almost 50 years on? It's one of the stupidest arguments on the internet. The Kalashnikov and AR 15 platforms are great at what they do. That's it.

Cause we throw bombs on it, throw bombs on it. Just smash something, yeah mosh for me.
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Old 2012-02-06, 14:36   #29
pr|Zer0

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Default Re: Kalashnikov AK-12 Unveiled

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zrix View Post
It's super useful when you are not using the weapon, e.g. traveling in a vehicle or when it's on your back.
same thing can be achieved by down-folding or telescopic, and the question was about side folding related to telescopic/down-folding. Its preferable to have a weapon ready then to find yourself unable to unlock or cock the weapon due to bad design

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Old 2012-02-06, 16:42   #30
samogon100500

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Default Re: Kalashnikov AK-12 Unveiled

Quote:
Originally Posted by pr|Zer0 View Post
Same crappy pistol type sight, same magazine insert system(M16/M4 magazine insert is waaay much better and waaaay less proned to error), side folding stock is gonna make someone upset, especially if is right-handed(whats the point of folding stock anyway - can fire from the hip more accurately??) they should adopt telescopic (M4/MP5/G3 style) instead. Any soldier nowadays is using the sights so you need a stock for that. Also, a bolt catch would have been great.
Its just an modified AK47/74 with the possibility of mounting western optics who suffers from the same issues as AK ancestors except for modified safety/selector system. Ambidextrous charging handle is just useless when you have to use the right hand to insert a new magazine. Its just a rough and very reliable design who reached its limits.
God damn read thread,before post.Yes,this is modified AK-74.Improved ergonomic and multi-functionality.Why it's need?Lets see example - bad guys and good guys.In day combat they had same chances,but if good guys NV googles and scopes - they can engage bad guys at night,when bad guys can't see anything.

Crappy insert system,crappy pistol sight?
This guy don't think so.With good training difference not visible so much.


Crappy sight?Dude - HK416 have crappy sight too?I also prefer such sight,that diopter sight.

Western sights?Really Russia have some sights for picatiny rail.Even SV-98 have picatiny rails.

Also US military personnel - fully contractors.Russian - regular soldiers + contractors.First ones will study+serve only 1 year.They should have simple and effective weapon.

Let me ask forward question - how much different M16A2 and M16A4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpig- View Post
Any well kept weapon system that's been learnt well will function well enough, that's why you learn drills and do your maintenance. The m16 was a brand new weapon with serious design flaws upon it's initial issue. If the weapon was so terrible, why are so many armies still using the AR 15 platform right now, almost 50 years on? It's one of the stupidest arguments on the internet. The Kalashnikov and AR 15 platforms are great at what they do. That's it.
Agree.But also AR-15 systems useful for police forces or Army SF.Anyway - IMO AR-18 systems(HK416,G36) at the step higher,that AR-15.
AK system - cheap system for big army.When you should arm a lot of people.

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