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Old 2022-08-18, 01:31   #1
Coalz101

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Default Reduce DOD size on off island invasion maps

Talking specifically on Pavlovsk and all other similar maps (adak, charlies point to some extent, Jabal).

The dod is too big, period there's no agrument needed to prove that as I'm sure everyone can see it themselves.

If you need examples, just look at Pavlovsk.
The dod covers basically the entire ocean which is unreasonable (Consider servers like HOG with DOD rules that they refuse to change, can't blame them though its understandable for some maps but not for all maps) There's no possible way that I in a BTR or gopher can see the carrier in B10 from A1 nor can I see it from M11.

I believe the DOD on those maps should recede another 100m off the coast line and be cut to only cover the carrier and not the entire ocean. For example you can cut the DOD at row 5 and at the H column in Pavlovsk and still keep the carrier relatively protected by the Dome and server rules can also do their fair share in preventing base rape. #freetheseas

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Old 2022-08-18, 08:29   #2
[R-DEV]Mats391
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Default Re: Reduce DOD size on off island invasion maps

The DoD is so big, so you cannot drive BTR or AA into water close to carrier. There is no need for the defenders to get into the water at all.
Pavlovsk also has a 1km view distance, so you cannot reduce DoD a lot before you could see the carrier.

A reduced DoD could also allow the Hind to attack the carrier, which is again not intended.

Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
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Old 2022-08-18, 11:44   #3
Coalz101

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Default Re: Reduce DOD size on off island invasion maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats391 View Post
The DoD is so big, so you cannot drive BTR or AA into water close to carrier. There is no need for the defenders to get into the water at all.
I understand what the intent was, and back in the day I would agree to them if servers won't cry about engaging in and out of massive ocean dod, but due to most server rules now helicopters and jets are basically 'invulnerable' in dod. Anyone who shoots them gets instantly slapped by ban hammer because most if not all servers have a do not engage into DOD rule so cas can literally reck havoc on people by sitting in dod and being protected by server rules and fear of being banned making ground aa hesitant to shoot them.



Quote:
Pavlovsk also has a 1km view distance, so you cannot reduce DoD a lot before you could see the carrier.
A reduced DoD could also allow the Hind to attack the carrier, which is again not intended.
Right so I thought of a compromise since we can't reduce the DOD too much. The yellow is my original thoughts but without receding 100m from the coast but receding the further away from the carrier you go. The red is what ideally could work out in most cases with minimum interference to the carrier.
What I refer to as the DOME is that invisible wall the absorbs incoming rounds. The smaller one can prevent baserape by the hind in my opinion. i don't think the hind even at full speed could even hit the carrier without getting killed themselves by the DOD bleed or by their own rockets hitting the DOME.



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Old 2022-08-18, 12:50   #4
[R-DEV]Mats391
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Default Re: Reduce DOD size on off island invasion maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coalz101 View Post
I understand what the intent was, and back in the day I would agree to them if servers won't cry about engaging in and out of massive ocean dod, but due to most server rules now helicopters and jets are basically 'invulnerable' in dod. Anyone who shoots them gets instantly slapped by ban hammer because most if not all servers have a do not engage into DOD rule so cas can literally reck havoc on people by sitting in dod and being protected by server rules and fear of being banned making ground aa hesitant to shoot them.
You should raise this issue with the admins. I am sure they would kick you just as much if you drove BTR close to Carrier to camp it. Changing DoD will make it harder for admins, not easier.

Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
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Old 2022-08-18, 14:24   #5
Coalz101

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Default Re: Reduce DOD size on off island invasion maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats391 View Post
You should raise this issue with the admins. I am sure they would kick you just as much if you drove BTR close to Carrier to camp it. Changing DoD will make it harder for admins, not easier.
I haven't raised it with the entire admin team but I have to active admins and the answer I got at the time was basically saying that I should bring it up with the devs, which I interpreted as "We're not going to change our rules to suit specific maps as it may complicate things".
And some extent I agree because if you check the DOD on some maps like beirut, the dod doesn't extent like how it would on pavlovsk or the other mentioned maps. Vadso is some what similar too, have a look at them below.

And I think its going to be easier for the admins since with a smaller dod (Like the red lined ones I used), there's going to be less ground to air kills in DOD and its going to be obvious if there's a Gopher or apc out in the ocean that their main intent is to shoot down incoming helicopters in DOD. and that will already narrow down the admins search for those guilty down to a select few people.

MAP KEY:
Markings indicates what I believe the pavlovsk dod will look like on those maps.





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Old 2022-08-18, 14:46   #6
[R-DEV]Mats391
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Default Re: Reduce DOD size on off island invasion maps

DoD is intended to work even if no admins around. As such your proposed DoD for Vadso and Beirut do look better from that perspective.

Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
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Old 2022-08-18, 15:19   #7
robert357

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Default Re: Reduce DOD size on off island invasion maps

There is one map that have massive DoD where players are not prohibited to shoot in and out of it - Omaha Beach. So yeah, there are two solutions: exception for Pavlovsk in server rules about shooting in DoD or change in DoD itself.

BTW you missed one major thing in these examples - team that start from sea also have spawn on land. On Pavlovsk one team could be sniped before even reaching the land. This is main reason why that DoD is so massive. You can always pretend to see that DoD as a massive air superiority for other team, or something :P

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Old 2022-08-18, 18:31   #8
[R-CON]​Frontliner
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Default Re: Reduce DOD size on off island invasion maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coalz101 View Post

MAP KEY:
Markings indicates what I believe the pavlovsk dod will look like on those maps.
Neither Brits nor IDF have an amphibious APC, and certainly not one with a 30mm autocannon, which is the entire point of Pavlovsk's DoD.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
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Old 2022-08-18, 19:10   #9
Coalz101

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Default Re: Reduce DOD size on off island invasion maps

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Originally Posted by Frontliner View Post
Neither Brits nor IDF have an amphibious APC, and certainly not one with a 30mm autocannon, which is the entire point of Pavlovsk's DoD.
Vadso may not have amphibious apcs for blufor on any layout but they have boats with GMG and MGs that could do some serious damage and been even more dangerous to trans with AA riding it. But based on the maps design Trans isn't locked to traveling to 1 direction inorder to get into the battlefield and its the same case on all off island invasion maps. that is another reason why to reduce the massive DOD on those maps, even if its not by much.

Take a look at the other possible layouts on beirut where there's literally 2 bmp 2ms for mec that are both amphibious alongside the 50 cal mtlbs for the large layout. Even on standard IDF gets 2 m113s although it can't instantly deny trans for the rest of the map and check out the alt layout where there is even a vulcan for IDF (Not sure if the floats but it is an m113 chassis after all)



Quote:
Originally Posted by robert357 View Post
There is one map that have massive DoD where players are not prohibited to shoot in and out of it - Omaha Beach.
Omaha is in a different league of its own. There's no air assets on omaha.

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Old 2022-08-19, 13:56   #10
robert357

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Default Re: Reduce DOD size on off island invasion maps

Then you know why DoD on Pavlovsk is that big. Same DoD design is on Charlies Point for the same reasons... and Vietnam have only one BTR there.

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