[Suggestion] New Squad|Kit System

[StevePl4y5]

Originally Posted by I-Omer-I

I agree. There isn't any perfect squad. Because of, peoples who connecting and playing random server, they don't listen SL. They play themselves and often they aim making high score. I mean they only play.

Those people are dumb, because the best way to score is obviously to be a medic, lol.
This snowballed quickly eh? It's nice tho, you can really see how mature the community is in this this kind of discussions, if a similar post was made in a COD community forum, there would be more F bombs than you could count them.

So keep talking guys, we shall find the perfect squad system together!

[I-Omer-I]

I said, squads shouldn't be dependent to player's choice. Some players (new players who don't now how they are playing) play for killing enemy (like classic FPS games). Squads should be in game and only SL can change players in squad. And squads should do their specific jobs, in game crewman and pilot kit shouldn't be necessary.

[jax]

Kinda like the kit selection in RO2, except squad specific... I like the idea.

[Midnight_o9]

Originally Posted by Brainlaag

The problem I see with PR2's general development is that people are so used to BF2's system that they are blind to better alternatives and just try to improve a present mechanic, which is only in place due to restrictions of the Refractor engine. Think out of the box, nearly EVERYTHING is possible (hypothetically).

"The Best Is The Enemy Of The Good"

Just like Gracler said, you're thinking out of the box using boxes.
What if amrour guys like to have a recon infantry with them?
What if the CAS prefers to be in the same squad as the choppers for better coordination?
What if the squadleader doesn't want an AT in his squad but an extra rifleman. Your system gives more restrictions than freedom.

Can you even imagine the chaos in the communications?
If squad one loses its APC and needs an evac with squad 2 APC, bam, one squad trying to ask something to 2 guys in a specific squad while the squadleader has to lead his infantry AND his APC to 2 different positions.

You can't mod the players. Most SLs don't want to deal with an armoured vehicle that can't follow the infantry. They should be independant.

Not even mentioning the amount of work needed for such a little thing, because you need a specific template for every map, every faction, every map layer...

Originally Posted by I-Omer-I

I said, squads shouldn't be dependent to player's choice. Some players (new players who don't now how they are playing) play for killing enemy (like classic FPS games). Squads should be in game and only SL can change players in squad. And squads should do their specific jobs, in game crewman and pilot kit shouldn't be necessary.

They should be necessary because you don't want to see an APC driver bailing out of his vehicle with a freaking rocket launcher on his shoulder firing at enemy armour and then getting back in his APC. Same for pilots.

[Allan Davidson]

Errata: In my previous post I said that mortar squad should be fixed like assets, but I meant to say that heavy artillery/howitzer (the automated area attack in PR:BF2) squad should be fixed as assets, not mobile/infantry mortar squad, they should be free to players decision.

[brunoff]

I like this squad type system. It's actually what I was thinking as a proper squad system for PR2.
If each squad type has access to a set of kits and vehicles but those vehicles and kits aren't necessarily tied
to only one squad type, then you have structure and flexibility at the same time. Example: There could be an APC and a Mechanized Infantry squad type. The APC type can take any APC/IFV they want, whereas a Mech Inf type could take a max of one APC at a time. Squad types should also be restricted in the number of players that can join so a recon sq would be like 3-4 players, an Inf sq like 8-12 and so on.

Another thing is, some squad types could also be attachable to others. When attached, they could work as if the attached squad was a different fireteam, with their own voip but, at the same time, sharing SL marks and a general squad voip channel and also keep their own squad restrictions. So a CAS squad, composed of only pilots flying jets, could be called (invited for attachment) by an recon squad who has targets, they accept the invitation, do some bombing based on their orientation/laze and then just detach themselves and operate alone again until someonelse call for attachment.

[Allan Davidson]

It's WAY better to have assets assigned to predefined squads than use a series of workarounds to make things work like in PR:BF2. Some examples.

PR:BF2 - Even in you are in a Trans squad, you need to request a pilot kit to get in a heli 1st seat.
PR2 - If you are in a Trans squad, you will have full heli rights, no pilot request needed.

PR:BF2 - If you are INF and want to get in a Heli to wait the pilot, you need to get in and change seat fast, or you'll die.
PR2 - INF automatically enter in trans seats, no need to change.

PR:BF2 - IF a pilot get inside a trans seat in a heli, he dies. This was made to prevent pilot (which have parachutes) to jump from moving helis on top of enemy dominated points.
PR2 - If you are in a Trans squad, you can only use the pilot seat. Also, pilots don't have parachute, the pilot seat that is a ejection seat.

PR:BF2 - Even if you are in a APC squad, you spawn as Rifleman and request Crewman kit in a APC, the game says you need to wait xx time to get another kit.
PR2 - If you are in a Armored squad, you can enter APCs without problem.

PR:BF2 - If you are armored crewman, you can only get in gunner seat if there is already a pilot, or you'll die. That was made to prevent INF from requesting a Crewman Kit and getting in gunner seat and soloing armored.
PR2 - If you are in a Armored squad, you can enter in gunner seat without pilot, this would be useful to protect the Armored if the pilot is somewhat dead.

This is only a few thing that came to my mind right now, that are many other things that will be much better if assets are related to squads, not to kits.

[Gracler]

Most of those problems can be solved by making a longer spawn list of kits so you can spawn in as pilot or crewman.

Also what happens if the crew abandons or get killed and a nearby infantry squad can salvage the vehicle? They would have to sit on there hands until the squad returns to give them a ride. Seems very awkward when they could just drive it home by themselves.

Again I have to reference Planetside 2's mechanic which could solve some of this. The driver/owner will automatically be placed in the driver seat when entering his vehicle, and anyone else will be placed in the passenger or gunner seats. The driver/owner is able to permit if he only wants members of his squad to enter or allow anyone to enter. If the driver/owner die or he gets a new vehicle the old vehicle turns free for all. If the driver/owner doesn't use his vehicle for a long duration it turns free for all.

[Midnight_o9]

Originally Posted by Allan Davidson

PR:BF2 - If you are INF and want to get in a Heli to wait the pilot, you need to get in and change seat fast, or you'll die.
PR2 - INF automatically enter in trans seats, no need to change.

PR:BF2 - IF a pilot get inside a trans seat in a heli, he dies. This was made to prevent pilot (which have parachutes) to jump from moving helis on top of enemy dominated points.
PR2 - If you are in a Trans squad, you can only use the pilot seat. Also, pilots don't have parachute, the pilot seat that is a ejection seat.

A simple script saying only pilots can get on pilot seat or crewmen on crew positions would solve all these problems without specific squads templates.

Originally Posted by Allan Davidson

PR:BF2 - Even if you are in a APC squad, you spawn as Rifleman and request Crewman kit in a APC, the game says you need to wait xx time to get another kit.
PR2 - If you are in a Armored squad, you can enter APCs without problem.

What about mechanised infantry squads?

Originally Posted by Allan Davidson

PR:BF2 - If you are armored crewman, you can only get in gunner seat if there is already a pilot, or you'll die. That was made to prevent INF from requesting a Crewman Kit and getting in gunner seat and soloing armored.
PR2 - If you are in a Armored squad, you can enter in gunner seat without pilot, this would be useful to protect the Armored if the pilot is somewhat dead.

This was actually to prevent ANYONE to solo vehicles, so with your system, the problem comes back. People can just drive to a position, switch to gunner, shoot, switch back to driver and move... etc...

[PoisonBill]

This works as long as it isn't too linear, there shouldn't only be one type of infantry squad. If there are several different squad slots, based on the team and a specific role that would be nice. Also if the squad-leader could make his own fire team layout.