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Old 2014-03-03, 12:14   #11
Brainlaag

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Default Re: [Suggestion] New Squad|Kit System

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevePl4y5 View Post
I thought about that as well, but I think that just limits the freedom given to the players by PR. I think players should be able to have the squads they deem useful, not the squads the devs deem useful.

Also, such a system would have obvious problems, because like in AA3, you can join a Squad (Fireteam), even if it doesn't have a SL (FL), for example, if there are not enough people in the server to fill every gap, some people will join Charlie Fireteam just for the marksman kit, instead of being in a full Fireteam. You can try and implement things like, not being able to join the squad until there's a selected SL, but what if the SL leaves or disconnects? How do you solve that? Someone is nominated SL automatically like how it happens now? But then what happens to his kit? Does it change instantly?

In my opinion that kind of system doesn't work in the PR envoirenment, and just brings new problems to light.
You simply enable a system that dictates the first slot to be filled is the SL, then medic, then FTL and so forth until you reach a certain number of players in the squad to unlock all the special kits.

As for the DC issue, you can swap roles any time in the menu but will only change to the respective class either by respawning, or by swapping your kit at a FOB, etc. FTLs and other NCO roles get promoted to SLs upon his departure.

Honestly, this system creates a lot less issues and effectively cripples any lone wolf, free kit and asset whore squads. It would make admin life a lot easier and make gameplay more smooth and less promiscuous. What system could be better for squad management than one imposed by the developers of the game itself? Play the game is it was meant to be played.
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Last edited by Brainlaag; 2014-03-03 at 12:27..
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Old 2014-03-03, 12:48   #12
Wayet

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Default Re: [Suggestion] New Squad|Kit System

that can be a huge improve to PR system hope it gets in !

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Old 2014-03-03, 13:18   #13
Gracler

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Default Re: [Suggestion] New Squad|Kit System

Quote:
Originally Posted by MADsqirrel View Post
Interesting ideas, especialy the "Squad Role" is good, but it is not a perfect system.
The enforcing thing is a problem. While it would be good for the SL to be able to decide which kits or vehicles his SMs can pick (no sniper, no vehicles for example), it will cause other problems. ATM everyone tries to get a CAS/Tank squad first to reserve it for himself and that often starts a lot of useless bitching and flaming.

Choosing "tank squad" should not automatically mean that nobody else can use tanks.

Sometimes it happens that all tanks are lost and the tank squad is running as INF. After some time the tanks respawn but the tank squad is fighting atm and can not play its role for some time. Now you can just ask the squad if they mind taking the tank, but with your system that would be impossible. Same for a CAS squad switching to TRANS while they wait for the CAS jet.
I share the same concern when making a rigid squad setup. While it may make the team look more balanced people don't fit into boxes the way the developer may wish for. Limiting everyone's freedom just to plug a hole made by the few who abuse it seems wrong.

The original poster idea that you choose your role when creating your squad solves a lot of problems already, and keeps the freedom of choice.

The squads roles that claim vehicles, should be managed in a way similar to Planetside 2 though. Instead of individual vehicle resources the points should be awarded to the SL so he can spawn a vehicle when enough have been earned.
  1. The vehicle is spawned using a spawn screen so the SL don't need to be nearby.
  2. The SL can allow certain squad members or all of them to manage (spawn) vehicles if he pleases.
  3. The map will have a max vehicle limit to prevent an army of vehicles, and if reached a reserve cue begins.
  4. Bigger squads earn vehicle resources faster than smaller squads
  5. The first squads made during briefing will get the vehicles points they need to fulfill there role, and the last squads made will get the remaining vehicle points. If the first squad isn't claiming there vehicle, then points start to flow into other squads that need it. If the first SL want's to be nice he can give his vehicle to another squad at his own expense.

Before someone starts saying this sounds complicated, I want to say that it is much more transparent than the current vehicle spawning in BF2. Every SL can always see how many vehicles are available on the map and if he is ready to spawn it or not.

This system is not perfect or fully thought through but it could be something like that.
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Old 2014-03-03, 22:49   #14
StevePl4y5

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Default Re: [Suggestion] New Squad|Kit System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracler View Post
I share the same concern when making a rigid squad setup. While it may make the team look more balanced people don't fit into boxes the way the developer may wish for. Limiting everyone's freedom just to plug a hole made by the few who abuse it seems wrong.

The original poster idea that you choose your role when creating your squad solves a lot of problems already, and keeps the freedom of choice.

The squads roles that claim vehicles, should be managed in a way similar to Planetside 2 though. Instead of individual vehicle resources the points should be awarded to the SL so he can spawn a vehicle when enough have been earned.
  1. The vehicle is spawned using a spawn screen so the SL don't need to be nearby.
  2. The SL can allow certain squad members or all of them to manage (spawn) vehicles if he pleases.
  3. The map will have a max vehicle limit to prevent an army of vehicles, and if reached a reserve cue begins.
  4. Bigger squads earn vehicle resources faster than smaller squads
  5. The first squads made during briefing will get the vehicles points they need to fulfill there role, and the last squads made will get the remaining vehicle points. If the first squad isn't claiming there vehicle, then points start to flow into other squads that need it. If the first SL want's to be nice he can give his vehicle to another squad at his own expense.

Before someone starts saying this sounds complicated, I want to say that it is much more transparent than the current vehicle spawning in BF2. Every SL can always see how many vehicles are available on the map and if he is ready to spawn it or not.

This system is not perfect or fully thought through but it could be something like that.
Yes, that's exactly what I mean when I say I disagree with fixed squads.
About the spawn system you speak of, I'd say that goes a little bit further from what we currently have, thus maybe starting to complicate things a little. But then again, it does sound like a pretty good idea, and tbh, I'm starting to get tired of games without a learning curve. Learning the game is the best part, so the more you have to learn the better imo.
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Old 2014-03-04, 06:04   #15
Allan Davidson

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Why not both?

Each scenario has multiple game types (AAS, skirmish, insurgency, s&c, VIP...), and the developer of the scenario/game type should determine what are the standard squads to be made, and the fire squads should be free to users.

For example, Khamisiya, AAS. There should be 4 standard squads: Armored Vehicles, CAS, Trans and Mortar team. Fire squads should be free to users create, and fill the desired role, like assault, medic, MG, sniper, AT...

In a INS map like Korengal, every squad should be dedicated to specific roles, since this is a much more detailed and close scenarios, this will prevent important breacher kit going to people that just keep lone wolfing.

Oh, one more thing. Voice Comm. should be required to operate all standard squads like armored and trans. And when a SL is creating a fire squad, there should be a check box with something like "Only allow players with Voice Comm. to join this squad", this will prevent time wasted with MIC checks and organizing tryouts.
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Last edited by Allan Davidson; 2014-03-04 at 06:14..
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Old 2014-03-04, 06:13   #16
Brainlaag

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Default Re: [Suggestion] New Squad|Kit System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracler View Post
I share the same concern when making a rigid squad setup. While it may make the team look more balanced people don't fit into boxes the way the developer may wish for. Limiting everyone's freedom just to plug a hole made by the few who abuse it seems wrong.
Care to elaborate what possible issues could arise and in what way a free squad system avoids it, I can't think of the implications (If your post was aimed at mine in the first place).
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Old 2014-03-04, 11:06   #17
StevePl4y5

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Default Re: [Suggestion] New Squad|Kit System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Davidson View Post
Why not both?

Each scenario has multiple game types (AAS, skirmish, insurgency, s&c, VIP...), and the developer of the scenario/game type should determine what are the standard squads to be made, and the fire squads should be free to users.

For example, Khamisiya, AAS. There should be 4 standard squads: Armored Vehicles, CAS, Trans and Mortar team. Fire squads should be free to users create, and fill the desired role, like assault, medic, MG, sniper, AT...

In a INS map like Korengal, every squad should be dedicated to specific roles, since this is a much more detailed and close scenarios, this will prevent important breacher kit going to people that just keep lone wolfing.

Oh, one more thing. Voice Comm. should be required to operate all standard squads like armored and trans. And when a SL is creating a fire squad, there should be a check box with something like "Only allow players with Voice Comm. to join this squad", this will prevent time wasted with MIC checks and organizing tryouts.
I really like the solution you came up with there. Usually the ideas that merge 2 opposing ideas together are the best. Asset squads could be fixed, while infantry squads (including mortars) could be optional and free to create. One thing I also forgot to include in my post, is that different squad types should have different player limits, and asset squads shouldn't be able to be locked.
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Old 2014-03-04, 12:52   #18
I-Omer-I
Default Re: [Suggestion] New Squad|Kit System

This is very nice but I want to ask another question, will primary weapons be in kits, or they will be independent? In PR:BF2, the enemy kits don't use long time. When I need ammo in enemy area, I can't do anything. But if rifles are independent to kits, I can pick and use enemy's weapon and don't need to change my kit.
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Old 2014-03-04, 16:08   #19
Gracler

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Default Re: [Suggestion] New Squad|Kit System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainlaag View Post
Care to elaborate what possible issues could arise and in what way a free squad system avoids it, I can't think of the implications (If your post was aimed at mine in the first place).
yes I was referring to your previous post, maybe I should have made that clearer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainlaag View Post
I'd find a "locked" squad system ala RO2/ArmA to be much more efficient. People were not to create their own squads but fill the spots on predetermined squads and roles. Would completely eliminate the factor of duplicated and under/overpopulated squads.

The free squad system of BF has IMO no future and creates unnecessary trouble.
With predetermined squads how would a map like Silent Eagle play out for the Russians for example?
Off the top of my head that map includes a couple of MTLB's BTR's BRDM's and a MBT or two.
How would you prearrange those squads?
Lets say there are two of each although I think there is a bit more than that.

Would it be:
  1. Squad MBT + BRDM + BTR + MTLB
or
  1. Squad MBT
  2. Squad BRDM + BTR + MTLB
or
  1. Squad MBT
  2. Squad BTR
  3. Squad BRDM
  4. Squad MTLB
and if we add the Gopher AA
  1. Squad MBT
  2. Squad BTR
  3. Squad BRDM
  4. Squad AA
  5. Squad MTLB
or
  1. Squad MBT
  2. Squad BRDM + BTR + MTLB + AA
or
  1. Squad MBT + AA
  2. Squad BTR
  3. Squad BRDM
  4. Squad MTLB
and with Mech inf put into the mix:
  1. Squad MBT + AA
  2. Squad Mech inf with BTR 1
  3. Squad Mech inf with BTR 2
  4. Squad Mech inf with MTLB 1 and 2
  5. Squad BRDM with or without Inf, and with or without a kitchen sink
I could go on for a while I think but I think you get the point.
Maybe I'm missing something in your idea but how would you compensate for scenarios like this?

Also what happens when players want to play with assets and don't understand the language of the Squad Leader? Should they be forced to stick with it and be guided without knowing what is going on? This is a different issue though.
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Last edited by Gracler; 2014-03-04 at 16:20.. Reason: Forgot the MTLB's
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Old 2014-03-04, 16:10   #20
Kadoken
Default Re: [Suggestion] New Squad|Kit System

Speaking of enemy kits, I feel like in PR2 insurgents should be able to steal more types of kits from enemies and that enemy medic kits should be free game for AAS/Modern vs. Modern army players to pick up. What, does that German medic kit have some sort of Russian kryptonite where they pass out after using it for 10 seconds?
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