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Old 2014-07-11, 18:38   #11
winchesterdelta1
Default Re: DCS: WWII ► Kickstarter Bait & Switch (I Want Your Opinion)

This is my opinion. Didn't want to retype it.

+Bluedrake42 So you rather had they had thrown everything away and start from scratch or not make DCS WWII at all. I wished they would have done the latter. So they can concentrate on the modern battlefield. And let others like you cry about why lutthier took their money. But you would still have found a way to blame ED. I never backed this project because the rewards where bullshit from the beginning anyway. You could see this coming from far. But you got greedy and paid upfront. You gambled yo lost. And now you are crying. I just hope now all this mess does not delay or even stop all the other modern warfare stuff because of some upset little baby's that want to see ED go down because of a stupid move from some other group. Sorry. I love your channel. But i totally disagree with your rant about this. https://www.facebook.com/groups/Digi...9771518482203/

"Why do they even try to invade, why do they try to conquer? Why do they risk everything for such a small dominance? Because war is all they know, and without war they have no meaning for life, no meaning for the future. They are born into a world of such violence, and ignorance. The final battle is near, and their annihilation is at its peak. We are coming, and our numbers will darken your skies, you cannot run, you cannot hide.
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Old 2014-07-11, 18:40   #12
winchesterdelta1
Default Re: DCS: WWII ► Kickstarter Bait & Switch (I Want Your Opinion)

FaQ WW2

DCS WWII 1944 FAQ

What we know… just the facts.
Ok, I am writing this because so much info and answers are spread all over, as well, so much misinformation is being spread, either because people cant easily find it or cant be bothered to take the time.
At the time of the Kickstarter
RRG

RRG, led by Luthier was in sole control of management and setup of Kickstarter and Project. All creative decisions and direction were planned and executed by them
RRG stated that Kickstarter funds would be a small part of the project. Where the other funding was coming from was undisclosed.
ED
ED was partnered with RRG, supplying manpower, game core, and knowledge to the project, they were not involved with any management decisions, including planning and execution of Kickstarter.
ED was to sell keys to RRG for distribution as rewards (Its believed that this order wasn’t completed as only a small amount of people received this reward at end of the funding period for the Kickstarter)
ED developer Yo-Yo offered his services to do quality control on all FMs produced by RRG, he was also working with RRG is some form with the Spitfire as he had a unique fondness for that aircraft, but this was still and RRG project.
This brings us to the changes.
RRG

RRG became mostly unresponsive a few months back (not just with customers), the forums were getting very frustrated, everyone was getting very frustrated, info wasn’t being communicated to the level people had come to expect. Some where between the last update from them and June 7th, it was announced that significant changes had taken place with the project, both how its developed and managed.

This was described as:
Luthier was no longer involved in the project.
Luthier was contracted to continue work on helping with some of the manuals
Since the Kickstarter funds had run out, ED had been footing the bill on development.
ED decided to attempt to carry on development, hiring a number (undetermined) of the employees from RRG
Kickstarter funds covered a small amount (“drop in the bucket”) of total funds needed to successfully complete the products

The State of the project as left by RRG, as best we know.
Map: No updates had been shown for sometime, person involved had been removed from the team early on. Its believed the map is not very far along at all, and delivery date of said map backs that up. (expected May 2015 with period AI units)
Me 109K-4: We had seen many development shots of this aircraft, we assumed it to be in early Alpha (expected Oct 2014)
Spitfire IX: No progress images or videos of this one where made public, no real news at all. (stated to deliver Dec 2014)
P-47D-30: Model was in works, that’s all we were shown. (expected March 2015)
Me 262A1: Model shown in progress, no more info. (no timeline yet)
AI Only B-17G: No real info either, no timeline, but assumed it would be part of AI period units for map as stated above.
ED’s official stance on the Kickstarter funds was that they were spent on all aspects of the project, but as listed above, none were very close to being done whatsoever, the closest being the Me 109, which ED had sunk 120,000 USD of its own funds into the flight model. This did not include the model, cockpit model, cockpit systems, etc. It’s safe to assume that a DCS Module can reach well above 150,000 USD to complete.
Restructure

Due to the above costs, lack of funds and ED needing to take over the project, all aspects were reviewed.
Changes
No more separate install (this means no separate keys for one or the other)
Reward restructuring was needed as the reward structure was poorly thought out and would have been financially impossible to accomplish.

Project delivery date was changed from Sept 2014 to numerous dates over the next year or so, as described above.
At the end of the project, the entire collection could be purchased as a bundle.
The rewards were initially changed to this:
ED Forums - View Single Post - July 2014 Update #1
After customer feedback they were changed to this:
ED Forums - View Single Post - July 2014 Update #2
Key changes, Choice of aircraft from all 6 WWII modules. $1-$19 backers would receive $20 ED Bonus points
Clearing some misconceptions and false statements

Q: ED is taking the assets of RRG and getting nothing but profits from this, off our money right?
A: No, ED has already assumed many costs associated with the project, the fact is all the Kickstarter money was spent before ED took over. While it is true that ED has recovered, or believed to have recovered all the assets, much work is left to be done, and a rough estimate of 10-15 percent of the project is actually completed, some of which was already funded by ED

Q: ED was funding this project all along
A: No, not at all, no one knows where RRG was going to acquire the funding to satisfy its lofty goals, ED only got heavily invested when things started to go south.

Q: ED planned this, it was their goal all along to bait and switch us and give us less, isn’t that the truth.
A: As stated above, ED had no involvement in setting up the original reward structure, in fact as they took over, they were honestly shocked at how truly confusing and lofty the set up was. Again, this was because all of this was set up by RRG

Q: ED bought out RRG and all its assets right?
A: ED didn’t buy, acquire or takeover RRG. The details of how it all transferred may never be known, but what we do know is it appeared Luthier surrendered all the assets created with the Kickstarter money, and some of the employees were hired by ED to help continue the project as not to disrupt their other projects.

Q: ED’s first restructure was bad only to make the real one look good.
A: No, not at all, It was an oversight, a simple mistake, if you look at the initial reward restructure purely by the numbers it’s a great value, but it was pointed out that a number fo backers already had the P-51D and it didn’t make sense to force them to accept that as one of their rewards. Wags admitted this was a mistake publically.

Q: Why not just offer a refund?
A: Its complicated, but the short answer is this, The money was spent before ED stepped in, ED believes people want DCS WWII. They thought the best path was to make the project workable, and continue to develop it, in turn offering a realistic compromise on the reward structure

Q: Why cant you refund the money and just make the project anyways
A: This would be an incredibly hard hit to the bank roll, it would be a big enough loss that the project would have to be scrapped. They are already expected to continue to fund the project, but adding an 150,000 hit right off the start. Well its too much.

Q: It doesn’t matter, you cant give me my original rewards 100% you are supposed to refund
A: Kickstarter requires people to be upfront and communicate with their customers ED is trying to do that, even though ED didn’t enter in to this agreement, they are trying their best to make the project a reality. If it comes down to it, and they are forced into a refund, you can count on the project being scrapped. Not even the 109 could be guaranteed at this point. This isn’t a threat, its just the way it is.

Q: I am not happy with my reward structure, why cant you give me more?
A: ED did its best to make the value the best it could, while still remaining profitable. They are still a business, and they have to protect that as well. They have been very open to reviewing and making changes so far.

Just a side note on this FAQ, I requested, to Wags, to do this for the community, I know how info can be spread about in a thread and lost in the shuffle, I feel like both sides of the argument might be missing some key points.
I am going to initially leave this open for discussion, but I am warning you now, it will be moderated heavily for the back and fourth bickering. I am not an Employee of ED, I cant answer legal stuff as that has not been disclosed, so what you see above is all I know and understand. Also you may not agree with how ED is handling this, posting here your plan to fix everything will not change anything, This is where we are at.
If you feel I have missed something or you need clarification just ask, either in this thread, or by PM (preferred). This is not meant to be an update or anything new, but just to gather all the info in one location.

"Why do they even try to invade, why do they try to conquer? Why do they risk everything for such a small dominance? Because war is all they know, and without war they have no meaning for life, no meaning for the future. They are born into a world of such violence, and ignorance. The final battle is near, and their annihilation is at its peak. We are coming, and our numbers will darken your skies, you cannot run, you cannot hide.
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Old 2014-07-11, 22:02   #13
Apo
Default Re: DCS: WWII ► Kickstarter Bait & Switch (I Want Your Opinion)


There is lots of stupid shit being said in the comments, by now by me too and when you read this probably some more.^^
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