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Old 2015-08-14, 13:09   #31
Amok@ndy
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Default Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megagoth1702 View Post
So you know then that your memory of the "sound" is very subjective and affected by for example:
-combat stress
think of a mosh pit in a concert, we don't really notice all the nouances in the songs the bands are playing while we are "busy" pushing eachother around
-earplugs
they filter out a lot of frequencies, alter the sound and make you hear less but feel more with
-the body's "sense of touch (read limits of perception and the body's ability to "sense" sound of low frequencies)" the kick in the stomach from gun fire for example can only be reproduced in games with a low-end kick like this, I took a filter that only lets through the low frequencies of the "old" and "new" M249, notice an improvement in attack and kick in the new one, this is to simulate the bodys feel of touch and this is why sound without bass sounds thin and unreal
-surrounding gunfire
it distracts from the sound of our own weapon (which can be rather boring in 1p, G36 and P8 sound like a dry bang with a bit of a click that you feel in your hands & shoulder, boring as hell)
-environment
as you know guns sound incredibely different in different surroundings
while i appreciate your work Megagoth i dont like your attitude.

I'm not looking for a super clear sound and how a weapon would sound in case of vakuum.
I'm looking for combat sounds - that includes that the soldiers are wearing earplugs, are stressed, have a body and all your other points.

if you try to filter them out your sound might be very clear and good in your eyes but is completly useless for a game like Project Reality.


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Old 2015-08-14, 13:15   #32
[R-DEV]​camo
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Default Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

I'm thought that was actually what he was saying.

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Old 2015-08-14, 14:13   #33
Megagoth1702
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Default Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Amok@ndy View Post
while i appreciate your work Megagoth i dont like your attitude.

I'm not looking for a super clear sound and how a weapon would sound in case of vakuum.
I'm looking for combat sounds - that includes that the soldiers are wearing earplugs, are stressed, have a body and all your other points.

if you try to filter them out your sound might be very clear and good in your eyes but is completly useless for a game like Project Reality.
Thanks for the appreciation. But please, don't rip my post into two parts that ruin the context. The 2nd part of the post says "we need to find a compromise".

It's the internet and text based communication does not work well with emotions so let's ignore them to avoid misunderstandings. I don't intend to come off like I have an attitude but how else can I be direct and precise? I was replying and asking for a response to my previous question. I don't get offended by text on a screen even if I get feedback from a DEV that says "love the BMP1, hate the M249" without any additional constructive criticism. I could also critique attitude, but I don't because it does not matter. I rather dig deeper and ask for details. I want better sound for this game.

"Combat sound" is very subjective. During my army time we had a group practise with multiple rifles and MG3s. And to no surprise - while it was louder than any video game (even through earplugs) the sound WAS in fact very clean. You heard clean, punchy sounds. I am sure that Rabbit will confirm that. If you want my sound to be more exciting, turn up your volume so that the punch of the gun is pretty loud. Also compare these two files that I posted in my M249 post and tell me what EXACTLY you prefer in the old sound? I honestly believe this comes down to "being used to a specific kind of sound" - in this case YouTube distorted sound & current PR sounds, no matter if they are accurate or not. Little anecdote - when I show friends TV series in their original, english VO they tell me "oh no, I prefer the german voice, it sounds more natural and fitting". More natural than the natural voice of the actor? This is only possible because they are used to something and it takes a lot of force to change a habit.

Also - you have not heard the sound within a proper ingame "combat environment" so I feel like saying "how it would sound in a vakuum" is pretty rash. Do you feel the same way about weapons from recent battlefield titles and Insurgency? Taken on their own they don't sound too different, agressive punch, quieter tail, sounds best on high volume because the loud punch is short and is understood as "powerful" and not "too loud" by the brain.

Most people only know combat sounds from youtube videos but it can not be said enough: they are absolutely not reliable sources because of the way microphones work. If I was to create a "youtube like" sound stage I would have to totally ignore most basic rules of sound engeneering and do the opposite of "dont distort your sound unless especially necessary (explosions), have dynamic range to provide punch and attack, low end is important and means power, different volumes for different instruments/effects/weapons".

Many (probably most) players play on low volumes because the sounds are too loud. In order to get them as loud they were severely compressed up to the point of distortion/destruction. And what did it bring to the sound stage? Less punch in weapons overall, some "silent" vehicles and no ambient sounds. Is this really what you wanted? We could all wear earplugs and play at 100% but not only we would not hear mumble anymore - in the end it's a game and games are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, even when they are tactical and serious. I want to help with that but I want to follow the basic rules of my trade.

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Last edited by Megagoth1702; 2015-08-14 at 14:45..
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Old 2015-08-14, 14:30   #34
Fragmentality
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Default Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megagoth1702 View Post
I create all sounds within my DAW - REAPER (version 5.0 is out, yey!)
Yay another REAPER user :d. Nice sounds man, I've never done or worked with firearm audio but I can hear this is good stuff.

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Old 2015-08-14, 14:47   #35
Megagoth1702
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Default Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Thanks!

Yes, I have been using REAPER ever since version 2.0 came out, it was a tiny 2 megabyte baby back then but already more powerful than other DAWs. Version 5.0 is amazing.

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Old 2015-08-14, 18:31   #36
Rabbit

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Default Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

My point was, out of all the ways I heard the 249 fire, I think its best to base the sound closer to the video rather than your current posted on. Considering Adriaan said it sounds quite a bit like the 1.0 sound for it, I would look into that as a starting point or at least a reference.



AfSoccer "I just don't see the natural talent."
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Old 2015-08-14, 19:46   #37
Megagoth1702
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Default Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

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Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rabbit View Post
while there is a massive drop in quality due to the device that is recording, I think its a good area to aim for.

4:40 is a good place to aim for, your current version just sounds like it has to high of a rof. I feel like the sounds should just be a cleaned up version of the sound at 4:40, more stereo might be all that it would need from that video.
Just out of curiosity I took that youtube sound, cleaned it up a bit, added a tail and voilla.



lol. no comment

I think I'll leave the m249 be for now and rather look at polish guns.

EDIT: Final try of m249, should have more snappier attack than the previous test.


Alright, I am leaving for two days, on monday I will start working on the Beryl.

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Last edited by Megagoth1702; 2015-08-17 at 09:24..
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Old 2015-08-19, 14:32   #38
Megagoth1702
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Default Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

Beryl done, Alex sniper done. But I hate killing the sound quality like that.


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Old 2015-08-19, 14:41   #39
[R-DEV]Mineral
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Default Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

As long as it's all done smooth and doesn't delay any of our release plans or make things worse for some guns I'm all for batch editing volumes But if you can't stick to those things I just said I rather not see it happen for a while. But given I doubt it's as easy as batching them all in once I doubt it will go that fast which in our current plans really doesn't fit IMO.

Also, why you not using our M249? Not sure if it really matters but I suppose it's better to test sounds with ours? (just noticed the model is different).

Beryl sounds really nice btw.

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Old 2015-08-19, 14:51   #40
Megagoth1702
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Default Re: Megas Casual Sound Modding

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Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Mineral View Post
As long as it's all done smooth and doesn't delay any of our release plans or make things worse for some guns I'm all for batch editing volumes But if you can't stick to those things I just said I rather not see it happen for a while.
Hey, thanks for the reply.
Yeah I am thinking about that all the time.
Problem: The old sounds have absolutely no dynamic range and therefore sound louder than sounds with dynamic range.

So if I play my new sounds together with the old sounds at the same config volume value the old ones will sound louder and it's unbalanced again. So it will have to be like this:
-reduce all sounds by X
-reduce menu clicks & beeps volume manually (have done these both already)
-check all maps if ambient sounds are okay, if not -> remix (sareema has some left-channel heavy forest ambience, makes you wanna turn left all the time)
-reduce old guns by X so that they have the same loudness as the new samples at -6dBFS and nothing is too loud/quiet

Checking all maps would be super annoying but imho it's the only really big task here. Batch-edit volumes & map check -> quieter PR with lots of headroom for peaks and dynamic range, all the players have to do is raise their effects volume to 100% again and reduce voice-over volume as they see fit.

Quote:
Also, why you not using our M249? Not sure if it really matters but I suppose it's better to test sounds with ours? (just noticed the model is different).
The BF2 editor loads much faster with Bf2 content so I use that for short tests. And it does not matter since rate of fire is 900 for BF2/PR SAWs. Try closing your eyes, this is about sound.

@Beryl:Cool, thanks. But you should hear the uncompressed/undistorted version.

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