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Old 2018-03-23, 17:19   #1
deadpixels
Banned
Default Turret traverse rate

The turrest in game move very slowly at first but after turning the mouse they generate inertia and move quickly to the point where they are difficult to stop.

Is there any reason for this problem? From real life videos i can conclude the turret movement begins very quickly, opposite to how it works in the game







also from the last video they are firing 500m distance and there is very very little spread as opposed to the game, is this things possible to fix?
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Old 2018-03-23, 17:30   #2
[R-DEV]​AlonTavor
PR:BF2 Developer
Default Re: Turret traverse rate

Turret movement is fine. It doesn't look a lot different in these videos.

Auto-cannons have deviation like normal guns. The first bullet is very accurate if you wait a second between them. Especially important with BMP.
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Old 2018-03-24, 01:48   #3
Psyko

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Default Re: Turret traverse rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]AlonTavor View Post
Turret movement is fine. It doesn't look a lot different in these videos.

Auto-cannons have deviation like normal guns. The first bullet is very accurate if you wait a second between them. Especially important with BMP.
Alon, how come the tank stabilizers from CAS mod never were used in PR?

Surely this would be a cool new toy for tanks/cas/commander?
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Old 2018-03-24, 05:11   #4
chrisweb89
Default Re: Turret traverse rate

the CAS mod wasn't true stab. I wasn't a dev or anything, just a guy that fucked around on it, and helped test it. Their whole stab system, both for aircraft and vehicles worked by every ground vehicle having an invisible laser attached to it, so that if you brought, and kept your cursor close enough to the target, you were basically shooting LT at everything, including tanks and APCs. If you've seen videos of it, you'll notice once the gunner attains lock, their screen moves and bounces, but the reticle stays locked on the target, and not center of the screen.

One of the most interesting things that would be possible in PR, but hasn't been done was their addition of targeting pods for single manned jets, similar to how our 2 seaters work now. This was done by basically forcing people to debind their mouse controls, or as they moved and turned the camera, they would also turn the aircraft. It could always be implemented and still have a screen for regular lock on/dumb bombs that we have now for mouse pilots.
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Old 2018-03-24, 16:41   #5
Psyko

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Default Re: Turret traverse rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisweb89 View Post
the CAS mod wasn't true stab. I wasn't a dev or anything, just a guy that fucked around on it, and helped test it. Their whole stab system, both for aircraft and vehicles worked by every ground vehicle having an invisible laser attached to it, so that if you brought, and kept your cursor close enough to the target, you were basically shooting LT at everything, including tanks and APCs. If you've seen videos of it, you'll notice once the gunner attains lock, their screen moves and bounces, but the reticle stays locked on the target, and not center of the screen.

One of the most interesting things that would be possible in PR, but hasn't been done was their addition of targeting pods for single manned jets, similar to how our 2 seaters work now. This was done by basically forcing people to debind their mouse controls, or as they moved and turned the camera, they would also turn the aircraft. It could always be implemented and still have a screen for regular lock on/dumb bombs that we have now for mouse pilots.

Yeah lightning targeting pods and mavericks for the a-10 would be cool if they had that.

Do any vehicle guns in game have up/down stability?
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Old 2018-03-24, 18:36   #6
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: Turret traverse rate

I can understand why the DEVs won't include targeting pods for single seaters, it would make the two seater jets obsolete in comparison.
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Old 2018-03-25, 12:34   #7
deadpixels
Banned
Default Re: Turret traverse rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]AlonTavor View Post
Turret movement is fine. It doesn't look a lot different in these videos.

Auto-cannons have deviation like normal guns. The first bullet is very accurate if you wait a second between them. Especially important with BMP.
How can you say it is simply fine without any other explanation? It takes a considerable amount of mouse movement to get the turrets moving, and some vehicles like the Puma are oversensitive when using the same DPI. In order to properly use many of these vehicles, you have to switch DPI to achieve similar sensitivity.

From what I tested, there are great differences in how turrets of some vehicles work, which would make it seem like there was no effort on a uniform system for all vehicles. I understand vehicles of different types, such as tanks and apcs would have different turning rates, but not different inertia to this degree.

At the moment vehicles turrets are okay. They could be a lot better and more realistic. The way they could be more realistic is removing most of the inertia especially on smaller vehicles such as BRDM with very tiny gun towers, because thats how it would realistically be. Large turrets could have some inertia, but not as much as currently.

For example, the chinese PGZ95 AAV and russian tunguska have vanilla BF2 type turning rate, no inertia, very fast turning. Then you compare that to mec gopher anti air vehicle, which has very high inertia and slow turning. What is the argument behind this? Lighter turret but more inertia?

It seems like whatever change was brought upon these vehicles was not done carefully and is therefore a bit broken and not uniform in nature.

I was in the military serving 5 years in a LAV III unit and I can tell you the current system is nowhere realistic. I could look at the values and vehicle files and help create this system to be more realistic if possible?
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Old 2018-03-25, 13:02   #8
NFM-Myers
Banned
Default Re: Turret traverse rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadpixels View Post
The turrest in game move very slowly at first but after turning the mouse they generate inertia and move quickly to the point where they are difficult to stop.

Is there any reason for this problem? From real life videos i can conclude the turret movement begins very quickly, opposite to how it works in the game

also from the last video they are firing 500m distance and there is very very little spread as opposed to the game, is this things possible to fix?
I just registered to chime in on this too. I was a bradley gunner and the system was a lot more responsive in medium rotations or adjustments than I feel it is in the game. Larger rotations like 180 would take longer because the turret keeps turning at the same rate. In the game the turret turn rate increases with time, which is not realistic.

Also notable is that the real turrets can not be tuned into a certain location with such pinpoint accuracy as in the game, but that is fine because you cannot penetrate most walls in PR and other issues.

I feel like the turret should be locked to only turn at some maximum rate but also remove the acceleration restrictions if at all possible, because they do turn near-immediately on adjustment.
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Old 2018-03-25, 15:24   #9
Psyko

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Default Re: Turret traverse rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFM-Myers View Post
I just registered to chime in on this too. I was a bradley gunner and the system was a lot more responsive in medium rotations or adjustments than I feel it is in the game. Larger rotations like 180 would take longer because the turret keeps turning at the same rate. In the game the turret turn rate increases with time, which is not realistic.

Also notable is that the real turrets can not be tuned into a certain location with such pinpoint accuracy as in the game, but that is fine because you cannot penetrate most walls in PR and other issues.

I feel like the turret should be locked to only turn at some maximum rate but also remove the acceleration restrictions if at all possible, because they do turn near-immediately on adjustment.
^^^ i like this.


Incidentally, Casmod also had arrow key turning for the gunner, and it gave the feeling of what the gentleman above describes, where the mouse doesn't "accelerate" it simply moves at a fixed rate. The "joypad" or whatever it's called in a tank usually has yaw action, up down left right if im not mistaken, and i wondered if it ever accelerated or was fixed, and while a mouse does the same thing, it also offers too much sensitivity and too much accurasy. (in rl, accuracy is great, but in this game, it shouldnt be about great, it should be about simulating the feeling if reality.)
Essentially the mouse and the left number keys are all the gunner uses (along with thermals "T")
And methods to reduce delay to action were the default in BF2 vanilla, but doesnt really represent how it works in reality. And as i recall, the mod endeavors to move away from vanilla.
So, if these realistic additions weren't included in the past due to devs being worried it might nerf the game, hens making aspects of the mod unpopular and effecting server pop, i for one think it would be a good addition. It's the only nerf i would recommend. Because as it stands tanks and apcs are a bit too accurate fighting infantry, with BTRs being able to storm through wooded areas with relative ease, and instead of reducing the gunner's control, the mod compensated with giving every squad of 6 men, light anti tank weapons, which have resulted in far too many vehicles getting ambushed, and a reluctance to use apc for transporting squads.
I reckon there is a knock on effect that shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.
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Last edited by Psyko; 2018-03-25 at 15:36..
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