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27 Nov 2020, 00:00:00 (PRT)
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Old 2020-11-02, 00:53   #31
Coalz101

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Default Re: Revert back to the old AR

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickLA_CA View Post
They need to have their minimum deviation increased a bit, but the deviation settling timer drastically decreased, after all, you're slamming a bipod on a solid surface
if you consider the air as solid surface as well then, I guess you're right. but in most usage cases (From what I see) People with bipods (MG3 primarily) have them deployed whenever their expect enemy around the corner (In the middle of the air since you can't ADS without deploying). But that's a conversation for a whole other day.


I suggest if we've going to do what you said, nerf all MG/AR bipods so that they are not able to deploy unless the player is against a wall, flat on the ground or through a window in which a bipod would realistically be placed. No more invisible floating bipod stands, but I'm pretty sure the engine won't allow that so work with what we got.
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Old 2020-11-02, 08:15   #32
[R-MOD]Nate.
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Default Re: Revert back to the old AR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coalz101 View Post
I suggest if we've going to do what you said, nerf all MG/AR bipods so that they are not able to deploy unless the player is against a wall, flat on the ground or through a window in which a bipod would realistically be placed. No more invisible floating bipod stands, but I'm pretty sure the engine won't allow that so work with what we got.
Correct - this discussion has so far ignored that in other games deploying bipod only works when prone or when there's an elevated thing to put it on..

Maybe the settle deviation is a means to balance out the fact that you can have your AR deployed anywhere at any height/stance without regard for the environment. How shit would AR's be if you could only use them prone in a forest ...
Unfortunately settle time can't be adapted based on the stance.

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Last edited by Nate.; 2020-11-02 at 14:13..
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Old 2020-11-04, 12:26   #33
axytho
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Default Re: Revert back to the old AR

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickLA_CA View Post
Have you actually tried shooting 1,2,3,4,5 seconds after you deployed the AR? You can hit a target, but on a different map. The issue with ARs is as Smek noted, they are lazer accurate once settled, but that is a different issue from settling their deviation. They need to have their minimum deviation increased a bit, but the deviation settling timer drastically decreased, after all, you're slamming a bipod on a solid surface
No, that's unrealistic and gives poor gameplay. No one dolphin dives with a M249 IRL, and after "slamming" your M249 down on a surface, you will find that it is is not directly in line with your face, that you have to adjust your aim, look through your scope again, reacquire your target and THEN you can open fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS_bM3Xlw7M

Takes him 7 seconds to go from standing up to prone and accurate, and 4 seconds to switch targets with a bren gun which is about the same weight as the M249.

And it also gives very poor gameplay. The point of the AR is to dominate long range, but react slowly. If you want to play a game where a machine gun = paintball gun with 100 rounds, there are plenty of alternatives.
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Last edited by axytho; 2020-11-04 at 12:41..
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Old 2020-11-19, 01:05   #34
Coalz101

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Default Re: Weapon switch deviation too drastic

Question @Devs, does Stamina affect Deviation, I think it should. A guy running around all day will take longer to settle a gun than a guy who was walking around or idling in one spot.
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Old 2020-11-19, 05:46   #35
Frontliner
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Default Re: Weapon switch deviation too drastic

It doesn't depend on stamina and, looking at what's available to us in terms of settings, I expect us to be unable to link the two together.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
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Old 2020-11-19, 11:49   #36
Coalz101

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Default Re: Weapon switch deviation too drastic

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Originally Posted by Frontliner View Post
It doesn't depend on stamina and, looking at what's available to us in terms of settings, I expect us to be unable to link the two together.
I'm sure there's maths somewhere that can get those two linked together. I don't know how the bf2 code works, but I'll assume something.

Is it possible to have deviation linked to key press and for how long the key is pressed. So lets say I've been holding shift for 5 seconds, so it takes an extra 2 seconds to deviate for every 5 seconds the key is pressed?

EDIT:
Isn't it linked to walking already, maybe just have a different setting for running/jumping. In a sense that would also relate it to stamia.
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Old 2020-11-19, 12:04   #37
[R-DEV]Mats391
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Default Re: Weapon switch deviation too drastic

Frontliner is talking about what BF2 offers out of the box and there nothing like that is possible. What you suggest is changing the code of how deviation is calculated. While it probably is within our possibilities, it way more work for probably little gain.

Mineral: TIL that Wire-guided missiles actually use wire
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Old 2020-11-19, 19:02   #38
Frontliner
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Default Re: Weapon switch deviation too drastic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coalz101 View Post
I'm sure there's maths somewhere that can get those two linked together. I don't know how the bf2 code works, but I'll assume something.
Your reasoning is coming from an assumption that game code has a mimic-ing relationship with our physical reality and that's just not the case. It has nothing to do with maths either instead it's the game having specific values and then calling onto that reference to do whatever with it(in layman's terms, before one of our IT gods rages at me for not knowing any better).

Quote:
Is it possible to have deviation linked to key press and for how long the key is pressed. So lets say I've been holding shift for 5 seconds, so it takes an extra 2 seconds to deviate for every 5 seconds the key is pressed?
The system is a wee bit more intricate than my current understanding of it(since I'm only looking at the tweaker files), but I'm pretty sure that the game already takes movement speed into consideration when it calculates your "movement deviation" by having it build faster when sprinting rather than walking or crouch walking. Maybe it's just an impression I have?

In any event, what you're asking is already the case with moving, turning, shooting, but once you stop the interaction the game will slowly decay the deviation down to the minimum of your current weapon. It doesn't factor in exhaustion, Hit Points, whether or not you're in a squad or whatever other random thing you can come up with. The rate of build up and decay is specifically defined within a weapon's deviation setting and calls onto specific actions, the ones I mentioned as well as jumping and going(!) prone. The game also detects whether or not you ADS, and whether you're prone, crouched or standing. Nothing else is called or referenced by the deviation system currently.



What you're asking is whether or not it's possible to have another reference for the deviation and the answer to that is "I don't know". I don't know if the 5 deviation settings are all we have because they are hardcoded into the game's engine. If not, I guess it ought to be possible to get something done once we understand how the game itself contextualises the deviation in its own logic.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
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