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22 Jul 2019, 00:00:00 (PRT)
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Old 2019-06-03, 08:28   #1
axytho
Default Bullets loaded in sniper rifles 1.8 times more damage

According to the config files, the 7.62x51 mm NATO cartridges for snipers do 90 damage.
Those used in standard infantry rifles like the FN FAL/M14/G3 and machine guns like the FN MAG do 50 damage, while the DMR does 58 damage.

I understand that different ammunition is used by snipers over the regular troops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C...artridge_types.

However, it seems a bit of a stretch to me that these cartridges will be so much more effective at penetrating armor. They are better at maintaining velocity and accuracy over longer ranges, and I'm happy that the developers took the time to create a seperate bullet to factor this in.

Nonetheless, I don't think that they should do significantly more damage than standard infantry rifles or machine guns. There is no good balancing reason for unrealistically high damage values for sniper rifles.
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Old 2019-06-03, 16:04   #2
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: Bullets loaded in sniper rifles 1.8 times more damage

Snipers are borderlines useless even with the damage buff as you are horribly handicapped by deviation alone. Only on a few maps, against unskilled players or against irons can you expect to get some kills here and there before you will be discovered and killed.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
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Old 2019-06-03, 19:08   #3
axytho
Default Re: Bullets loaded in sniper rifles 1.8 times more damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontliner View Post
Snipers are borderlines useless even with the damage buff as you are horribly handicapped by deviation alone. Only on a few maps, against unskilled players or against irons can you expect to get some kills here and there before you will be discovered and killed.
I completely agree that the only people snipers inconvenience are people who don't have medics to revive them, or who are forced to cross very large open spaces.

The point of the sniper is to observe and occasionally kill high priority targets. If you try engaging an 8 man squad from less than 500 meters you will die (obviously). I think that if you wait 8 seconds, all deviation goes away, but I have very little experience using sniper rifles myself so correct me if I'm wrong.

But even if snipers are borderline useless, there's no reason not to nerf them further by making their damage realistic. As long as they still have all their equipment and are capable of making people dead-dead by a single shot, they have a role to fill. If they want to be effective, they should work together with others. Every other role in PR has to do teamwork to be effective.
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Last edited by axytho; 2019-06-03 at 19:18..
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Old 2019-06-04, 17:40   #4
FFG
PR Server License Moderator

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Default Re: Bullets loaded in sniper rifles 1.8 times more damage

Keep in mind that Military's have many different rounds with different loads. The NZDF for instance uses different rounds with different grains and loads in their .308 snipers as they do in their maximi's. Just because its a .308 doesn't mean it has the same ballistics

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Old 2019-06-05, 06:51   #5
axytho
Default Re: Bullets loaded in sniper rifles 1.8 times more damage

I don't know about .308 but US/UK and most NATO snipers use the 175 grain variant of 7.62x51mm. The standard round is 150 grain.



As you can see, while the sniper round has 3% more energy, the standard round has 8% more muzzle velocity.
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Old 2019-06-05, 21:11   #6
Chernobog95
Default Re: Bullets loaded in sniper rifles 1.8 times more damage

I am layman involving ballistics, but I know that nowadays unlike decades ago that sniper rifles have own specific barrels rather than previously cherry picked best of the bunch from battle rifles or that one battle rifle being adapted for sniping role.

Anyway I am guessing since sniper rifles get barrel that get more treatment to reduce MOA then it should have longer retention of kinetic energy even if round are regular ones for battle rifles...

Also there should be attention to detail such as length of the barrel and if the barrel has regular rifling or octagonal with the latter being more efficient hence CZ 82 despite being considerably smaller pistol is just as powerful and accurate as CZ 75.
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Old 2019-06-06, 21:19   #7
axytho
Default Re: Bullets loaded in sniper rifles 1.8 times more damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chernobog95 View Post
I am layman involving ballistics, but I know that nowadays unlike decades ago that sniper rifles have own specific barrels rather than previously cherry picked best of the bunch from battle rifles or that one battle rifle being adapted for sniping role.

Anyway I am guessing since sniper rifles get barrel that get more treatment to reduce MOA then it should have longer retention of kinetic energy even if round are regular ones for battle rifles...

Also there should be attention to detail such as length of the barrel and if the barrel has regular rifling or octagonal with the latter being more efficient hence CZ 82 despite being considerably smaller pistol is just as powerful and accurate as CZ 75.
They have longer retention of kinetic energy, this is modeled in game and I have no problem with a longer damage drop-off for snipers than for regular rifles: but my problem is that sniper do 90 damage from the moment the bullet leaves the barrel as opposed to the 50 damage from regular rifles.

I'm definitely not a ballistics expert either, but I think a bullet is a bullet. Once it leaves the barrel, how well it keeps its initial kinetic energy depends on the bullet itself. A longer barrel might grant some more initial kinetic energy but E= mv²/2 so in the end the kinetic energy in the bullet at the start will depend on:

The weight (which will remain constant for a given bullet, but sniper bullets are heavier than regular bullets)

The muzzle velocity (which is higher for regular bullets than for sniper bullets EVEN WHEN accounting for length, although length definitely has an impact on for example the shorter variants of the FAL)

Take the following examples: (these were taken from wikipedia)

M24 sniper: 175 grain bullet, 790 meters/second muzzle velocity, 3560 Joules (wikipedia)

M14 infantry rifle: 147 grain bullet, 850 meters/second, 3470 J (wikipedia)

FN FAL long version: 147 grain bullet, 840 meters/second, 3389 = 3470 * (84/85)² Joules (not 100% sure whether I'm allowed to use the kinetic energy formula here but this is for point blank)

FN FAL short version: 147 grain bullet, 810 meters/second, 3151= 3470 * (81/85)².

So in the worst case, using the shortest possible version of the FAL (436mm barrel), you will still only have 11% less energy than a sniper rifle with a barrel length of 610mm.



So TLDR: you could justify giving the sniper rifle a 10% damage buff, but not a 80% damage buff (assuming that I'm allowed to use the formulas that I used, people who know something about ballistics should give their opinion)
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