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View Poll Results: Name your favorite maps for PR v0.85
Al Basrah 234 32.19%
Asad Khal 204 28.06%
Assault on Mestia 111 15.27%
Battle for Qinling 107 14.72%
Bi Ming 51 7.02%
EJOD Desert 120 16.51%
Fallujah West 319 43.88%
Fools Road 161 22.15%
Jabal Al Burj 145 19.94%
Karbala 138 18.98%
Kashan Desert 231 31.77%
Kozelsk 182 25.03%
Korengal Valley 209 28.75%
Muttrah City 335 46.08%
Operation Barracuda 156 21.46%
Operation Archer 208 28.61%
Operation Ghost Train 102 14.03%
Qwai River 166 22.83%
Ramiel 180 24.76%
Tad Sae 51 7.02%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 727. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 2009-02-15, 10:01   #31
M.Warren

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Default Re: Favorite PR v0.85 Maps

First off, here is my positive feedback for the maps as requested. I additionally placed Neutral and Negative feedback as well to expand further on my reasons to have a broader range and depth of evaluation.

I want to make it clear that I do not want, nor am intending to have a discussion on the Neutral of Negative feedback posted in my reply here. Thus, defeating the theoretical situation of "Off Topic" discussions because there won't be any discussions that were driven "Off Topic" to begin with. I am simply making a statement that begins with my reply, and ends with my reply. You're perfectly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

Positive:
Al Basrah - Simply the best Insurgency map. Many available vehicles and plenty of space to operate them allowing for a large potential in combined arms teamwork. The large city also offers the Insurgents sufficient places to hide. Old-school and balanced well even to this day.

Asad Khal - Feels like Strike at Karkand, the funneling of troops through a bottleneck via geographical barriers and no-go zones. But, what can I say? The action is there and people love it. Only time will tell how long it's fame will last or infamy will begin.

Battle for Qinling - This map has unfinished potential in the aerospace department, but when it comes to completion it'll begin receiving the credit it deserves. This map would also probably benefit better from larger flag capture zones that help infantry squads and limit armor camping-effectiveness. Overall, still a good map for hardcore PR enthusiasts.

Fallujah West - It has action, and lots of it. Some may say it's unbalanced, but a majority of it comes down to tactics, teamwork and thought out preparation. Resourcefulness and efficiency is another undoubted key factor to this battlefield. Overall good map.

Karbala - It's a new map and it plays out well for the most part. Only gripe is that the city feels "boxy" or "squared off" in excess and doesn't flow in a natural manner. Also the awkwardly large sand hills to the South West remind me of Ejod Deserts strange geography. Overall good map if you get used to the layout of the city.

Kashan Desert - Yet another map for hardcore PR enthusiasts just like The Battle for Qinling is. Very rare is it that you see PR in it's full multitude of available air assets and armor assets on a single map. Good for those that enjoy vehicle battles, however this doesn't invite people who enjoy infantry combat. But then again, if you like infantry combat you are welcome to play the 75% of other PR maps that are infantry based. Kashan Desert is here to stay.

Kozelsk - This new map is certainly enjoyable. It's best played with a large amount of infantry in this dense forested setting. As soon as the players are able to get over the initial impulse to abuse the large amount of Russian armored assets and resultant loss of tickets from careless use, you may be able to have a good long round. Overall, still a good map.

Korengal Valley - This is still a relatively new map to some degree, however it's clear that it may have etched itself into PR history already. You can easily expect intense close quarter combat. I've personally witnessed platoon-based (Multiple squad) coordination, rather than the typical one-squad-roaming; and might I add, it was intense. Soon as players begin to realize the importance of platoon based combat in an Insurgency setting, you'll immediately see intense teamwork and firefights to a new and revitalized approach of fun in PR.

Muttrah City - For the most part, it is a good map. Well designed and lush in pleasant visuals as it was clearly designed with that in mind. Unfortunately, the mountains outlying the city are far too harsh, even if it was intended or not. Part of the essence of the U.S.M.C. forces is their ability to transport the team in high mobility situations via helicopters. But how is that entirely possible if a majority of the city has confined spaces and unclimbable outside geography? It's streamlined towards urban combat more than it should be.

Operation Archer - The rebuilt version of Operation Archer for v0.85 has most likely saved it's reputation before it sunk into the drain. Better buildings, houses, ground textures and vegetation have revitalized this map and truly made a gorgeous setting. Now it's an enjoyable map to participate in rather than being an eye-sore.

Qwai River - As much as you may have heard me complain about this map, it is still a good map. The vehicle layout is my biggest concern, but that is another story. It was one of the first few maps that began the whole new transition of PR mapping to a much more lush and visually appealing setting. Seeing as it's an older map and was confined to limits

Ramiel - A map that definitely holds up it's reputation of the "Blackhawk Down" theme that it had been inspired by. Although Ramiel may appear to be "boxy" or "squared off" like Karbala, you barely notice it because you become immersed in deep urban combat and the city appears to sprawl for ages. The geography in the southern and eastern regions is slightly awkward and generally impedes armored units such as Strykers. Most people don't notice it because... They don't use Strykers as transport. The airlift capability of the BH is available and used frequently. Overall, still a great map.


Neutral:
Assault on Mestia - An older map, and it seems to have long lost it's spice of interest. Maybe a new approach on this map by implementing additional flagzones or modifying the capture radius would improve gameplay. Until then, it lays in wait for a new revitalization.

Operation Ghost Train - Yet another old map that deserves credit. However, it's strange geography makes it easy for people to anticipate where the enemy is coming from, which does not assist gameplay. You have 4 points to cross to enter enemy territory. The railroad bridge, the rope bridge, the eastern boulder-rock shallow river area, and the land bridge to the west with the WW2 era downed fighter. And then to make it worse, if you make it across the river you'll have to go all the way up and around a "special path" just to get ontop of the. Basically all paths have been walked, and all players can easily anticipate where someone is coming from simply because of where they appear. Thus, the route that was taken now becomes obvious.

Tad Sae - I will give credit to the creator of this map for doing a good job with it's design. However, I personally have become very exhausted from the numerous maps in PR that involve some kind of body of water to cross. Let's count up how many maps have some kind of body of water on it as part of the setting.

Major Flowing Bodies of Water:
1. Bi Ming - Streams
2. Qwai River - River
3. Road to Kyongon Ni - River
4. Operation Ghost Train - River
5. Asad Khal - Twin Streams
6. Tad Sae - River
7. Seven Gates - River
9. Korengal Valley - Stream

Minor Flowing Bodies of Water
1. Al Basrah - Stream/River
2. Fools Road - River
3. Jabal Al Burj - River
4. Karbala - River
5. Ramiel - Stream/Lagoon
6. Sunset City - Twin Rivers

I've noticed this trend for quite sometime, specifically with an abundance of large bodies of water. It's become slightly overkill.

Negative:
Bi Ming - This map is hectic. It's limited routes for vehicles are painful. Including the fact of going from moderately high points of elevation in certain areas, then all the way down to waterside streams with obscured vision from the treeline. What is the result? Run-and-gun mode in certain areas. Overall, I give it a "meh".

EJOD Desert - An old map that's lost it's flavor, and it's not too surprising as the map wasn't even really made for Project Reality. The vast expanses of hills to the east and west serve little to no purpose other than for armor to disappear in. If this map was able to be modified in a PR sense, I would reduce the awkwardly jutting-hills and smooth them down into sand dunes, then proceed to expand the city center to scales much larger in all directions.

At heart, EJOD Desert it wants to be an urban map but it isn't. I would also alter the North Desert and Gas Station flags so they appear more as a built-up Forward Operating Base with gun towers and hesco barriers. Now combat, would be vastly more appealing and this map would be revitalized for PR. After all, when was the last time you played a map that focused on combat around close quarters urban combat and fortified FOB's? A nice new twist of fun we've never seen before.

Fools Road - Simply put... So much space, but not enough to get around in. Geography is a limiting factor here and impedes progress. There are also far too many tickets in this map to be playing pitting a conventional army against a militia. In the end, the result is a long drawn out map with very little excitement. This is an old dog you'll probably never get to teach new tricks.

Jabal Al Burj - There's so much to say about this map in referance to it's gameplay as it remains a thorn in the side of PR in terms of map layout dispute. Geography is such a killer, even with the U.S.M.C. forces having helicopter transport. It may appear as a somewhat large map, but the looks are deceiving. Only about, 50-60% of the map is actually played upon. The other 40-50% of the map is terrain that no one wants to deal with. The flag capture order should have been altered to allow more flexible gameplay and tactics rather than than letting hectic bottle-necked geography limit gameplay in favor of the MEC forces instead. It should have been changed to reflect something along the lines of this:

East Beach 100m AND West Beach 100m, South Bridge 120m AND Dam 200m, Jabal Al Burj 200m, North Bridge 100m.

Operation Barracuda - This map needs a rethink. As much as AAS v3 has evolved combat to an extent to break up the norm, the end result is still somewhat undeniably the same. The U.S.M.C. forces rely heavily on transport choppers for supply crates and, (obviously) transport of infantry units to the island. The problem is that it's rarely ever see that the U.S.M.C. forces capture 2 flags or manage to keep them long enough to proceed to the next. The ultimate goal of assaulting the PLA Missile Silo is almost never seen.

The largest problem is the U.S.M.C. cannot effectively deploy FOB's due to complications from enemy Anti-Aircraft emplacements. When the choppers go down, that also means for the next x amount of minutes till the choppers respawn, they'll also be without FOB's. Thus, then they rely heavily on their Rally Points which inevitably become overrun. From that point on, they're headed back to twiddle their thumbs on the carrier, which is no surprise. It's Wake Island, minus the J-10's bombing the carrier. Maybe one day when the Harrier is introduced, the U.S.M.C. will have an effective tool in order to bombard enemy strongpoints with heavy Laser Guided Bombs before advancing in. Rocket Hueys are effective, but not entirely practical as the Harrier is a better alternative.

Another problem is the lack of foliage. It may come as a shock, but it turns out that palm trees and bamboo are not a viable source of concealment. That is, until it atleast has the same density of palmtrees/bamboo like seen in "Operation Ghost Train". This tropical island isn't as "Jungle" orientated as it may seem. Dense shrubs/bushes are needed to hide in and conceal rally points. At ranges of 100 meters or more, you can easily see someone who thinks they're laying in the grass but stick out like a sore-thumb. If you have ever played a Sniper to a higher degree, you'd be able to sense this kind of flora shortage. Not that I am driving the point of being a Sniper, but moreover the point that you become increasingly resourceful and aware of your surroundings while doing so.

Take the Blue Pill or take the Red Pill?

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Last edited by M.Warren; 2009-02-15 at 10:06..
Old 2009-02-15, 10:45   #32
[R-DEV]​Rhino
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: Favorite PR v0.85 Maps

some good feedback there M.Warren, a bit to think about.

Got a questions thou

Quote:
Battle for Qinling - This map has unfinished potential in the aerospace department
what exactly do you mean by this?

Also, for muttrah the mountains are meant to be hard to climb etc, and EJOD was made for PR, "EJOD" was the MEC/PLA team for the PR Tourney
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Old 2009-02-15, 12:56   #33
nathanator8811
Default Re: Favorite PR v0.85 Maps

1: Kozelsk - beautiful map. Having spent a lot of time IRL woods, the woods have the feel of pine woods where the needles have formed a mat on the forest floor. The lack of undergrowth under the trees, mixed with rocks and thickets is what does it. Not to knock any of the other forest maps, but none of them really capture that woodsy feel quite as good as this one. And the creative use of logs to make ambush spots is a very nice touch. +points for the hill area between the two bridges, and the tunnel area. The missile complexes are nice as well.

2: Korengal - Second, only because it has half the view distance of kozelsk. The vertical aspect makes it play much much larger than it is. Plus the caves, the many compounds, ambush sites, collapsable passes and rocks, alternate routes which few seem to know about. Really nicely done. I always have a blast mountaineering as either side. Now just blow it up a lot bigger...

3: Qwai - still pumping strong. Best asymmetrical balance of any map so far, IMO. My opinion may change with more play time, but I still enjoy most rounds I've played on this one. The new random flags is what makes it third, as it makes it fresh, and allows for more varied strategies.
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Old 2009-02-15, 17:02   #34
STORM-Mama

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Default Re: Favorite PR v0.85 Maps

Have to agree on Qwai. That map is a true masterpiece. Wiyth the random CPs and the upcoming new fields it's better than ever before. As nathanator it features some of the best assumetrical balance with one team relying on rapid deployment versus one that relies on brute force. Very interesting gameplay and very well done map!
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Old 2009-02-16, 02:38   #35
Scot
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Default Re: Favorite PR v0.85 Maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rhino View Post
some good feedback there M.Warren, a bit to think about.

Got a questions thou



what exactly do you mean by this?

Also, for muttrah the mountains are meant to be hard to climb etc, and EJOD was made for PR, "EJOD" was the MEC/PLA team for the PR Tourney
I find that Qingling needs to have a redux like Archer. Take off some trees, make it more forests or clumps of wood so you can have some sort of cover, make it more intense. It just needs more detail, which you will always get with a 4x4 map. The only reason Kashan feels more finished is because it's a desert, so detail is hard to come by. Overally I feel Qingling is on the brink, much like Archer was. If it doesn't change a bit, it will more than likely sink, if it's changed, IMO quite drastically, then it will float and could be a great map and inspire people to create more maps like it with Combined Arms.

_______________


For me, basing this just on new maps and Archer:

Asad Khal:
Great map, really intense fighting, just what PR needed with deviation, but please take out the no go areas. Makes for tactics being non-existent except go there and kill them in the centre. Rinse and repeat. But overall an oustanding map, can't complain.

Fallujah West:
Really immersive gameplay, some say unbalanced, but I disagree. A great representation of intense close quarters fighting and confusion and ambushes around ever corner.

Karbala:
A confused map at best. The mapper has tried to make too much, and include everything. The city itself feels unfinished to me, and a bit open. I need to play more to comment more, but may kinda prove my point.

Kozelsk:
Outstanding map, great dense forest gameplay, truely a great map, for infantry, mech infantry and ambushing. Add some of the grass which means you can hide more, make some nice hidey areas, but really, one of the best maps for PR.

Operation Archer:
Previously one of my favourite maps, made to be even better. It's always a good fight now, assets are perfect, had some of my best rounds on Archer, it just works. The city is good, the little detail which allows for ambushes and the lighting all make for a near perfect Insurgency map.

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Last edited by Scot; 2009-02-16 at 02:45..
Old 2009-02-16, 06:48   #36
SocketMan

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Default Re: Favorite PR v0.85 Maps

I think Archer is more "popular" because of the (new) Taliban faction,not just map changes.Quinling could use a different start up music imo -it's so peaceful and
soft that I just want to hug the enemies once it's loaded.Would love to see the Russians "helping" (replacing?) the PLA against the GB on it (if it's even a possibility)
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Old 2009-02-16, 14:01   #37
=(DK)=stoffen_tacticalsup

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Default Re: Favorite PR v0.85 Maps

Everything is epic, I like all the maps (Kabala is meh) but two things must be said:

Asad Khal is simply the best (inf)map out there at the moment.
Simple as that.
It could however, be improved to make it even better. I humbly suggest some sort of random cap order. It is quite a shame that the majority of the city is rarely used, a couple of more flags would be very nice, also to remove that sort of strike at Karkand Inf only feeling that emerges from time to time.

Fools Road is a bit unbalanced.
Its one of the maps that does the whole mechanized element best, and with the random cap order it has some of the best gameplay in PR, this is primarely because it is assymetrical in the assets. However, the Rusian HAT kit is just an RPG-kit and the only other AT ability is the spandrels. Ive grantedly seen Rus win the map from time to time, BUT the moment a decent armor sq gets hold of a tank, the game is won in favour of the Rebels.

All in all the maps are all very great and the fact that almost all, if not indeed all, has been tweaked a little makes the replay value extraordinary! A small salute to Al Kufrah Oilfields, it is very complete in its feeling and persuades the MecInf element nicely, its a bit overkill to have such heavy assets spawn on the first minute though and a Kashan Desert situation emerges, where the escalation bar starts at MAX and drops to skirmish.

.:iGi:. stoffen
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Old 2009-02-16, 20:57   #38
STORM-Mama

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Default Re: Favorite PR v0.85 Maps

The Russian HAT is not a regular RPG-7... Because of the tandem warhead the Russian HAT uses it takes no more than two hits on the front T-62 armour to knock it out.

It's not unbalanced - the only problem I'm having with it is that it's unrealistic that Chechnes use tanks and other heavier assets. Still wonderful gameplay-wise.
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Old 2009-02-16, 22:01   #39
RedAlertSF

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Default Re: Favorite PR v0.85 Maps

Well I'll give complete feedback about all maps because I'm bored and I want some changes.

Good

Operation Archer
Nowdays I love it. I just wish even some more trees and maybe the village complex could be a bit larger. And remove that damn castle.

Korengal Valley
Not much to say, this is a perfect map. I might add some more trees or something around the US base so it wouldn't be raped so easily.

Fallujah West
I have nothing to whine about this map. Maybe expand base dome of death like 20-50m so the base doesn't get raped so easily.

Kozelsk
Well this map is a epic one. My firsts thoughts about the map were that it needs undergrowth - but it doesn't. This is clearly one of my favourite maps. Bridge should be repairable. Also there should be a way to get up on that "central hill" from east. Also make at least Chechen base captureable.

Al Basrah
This was my favorite in 0.75. 0.8 crushed it. Now it's bit better, but I think Challenger should be removed. Also something has to be done with the mosque, British are camping way too much.

Fools Road
Another old favorite. I still love it. However put Russian main back to the other side of the river. It's just too hard for them now. And maybe give Russians some more APCs.

Ramiel
Not much to whine about. This map rocks, though attack littlebird should be removed. It just rapes insurgent spawns.

Muttrah City
Muttrah is one of the best CQB maps in PR. It requires pretty much co-operation especially on the USMC side but if there's any teamwork I enjoy this map very much. Though I find MEC AA bit too spammy. Also docks are very hard to defend. It would be good to add some objects for taking cover.

Assault on Mestia
Great infantry map. It needs bit more tickets and cap zones are way too big. Make them like 200m.

Kashan Desert

Great combined arms map. However, AA is way too spammy especially when server is full. This map is at it's best when server has 30-50 players.

Average

7 Gates
I've always liked this map. It was awesome with counter attack-game mode and there comes the problem. I could enjoy the map more if China wouldn't be able to capture any flags back. I think Brits need 1-2 Scimitars or 1 Warrior.

Battle for Qinling
Unlike most of the community, I love this map. It's terrain and vegetation might be best I've ever seen in PR. I think there should be more dense forests somewhere and somewhere no forest at all. And current type of forest also. I think the village in center of the map could be much bigger. At least five times bigger. Expand it to the south. I hate Tunguskas so they must be replaced. They're just overkill. Also Chinese and British airfields should have their own flags. Currently flags are not good.

Qwai River
When this map gets new fields it will be much better. I would love to see new tree models also. Government office turns way too easily to a generic vBF2 nade spam and that should be fixed. Also the assets need to be completely redone. I'm fed up with this TOW vs. tank crap.

Jabal Al Burj
The map doesn't have a real problem but I just don't like it that much. Though I haven't played it a lot. Random flags might be interesting.

Asad Khal
Nice little infantry map but these non-combat zones and stupid mountains blocking everything just suck. Might need to think about the flags again.

Karbala
It's a cool map. However US base is way too vulnerable and the map is bit empty, there is too much desert. Also shape of the city is very odd.

Tad Sae
This is PR's best jungle warfare map. I really like it but why is it only 1km? 2km would make it better. Also it would be nice to have more fields on the map. There's too much jungle now.

Operation Barracuda
Not much to say. Add at least 2 boats for USMC and they should be able to attack 2 flags at the start. AA kills USMC so they really need boats.

Operation Ghost Train
I haven't played this one yet because it's getting more rare all the time, but in 0.8 the bridge ruined the gameplay.

Poor

Road to Kyongan'ni
Aaargh, everything is just around one tiny village. What is the point? It sucks.

Sunset City
Reminds me of vBF2. I don't like this map at all. Combat area is extremely small, because there are hills everywhere and the hills are useless. Only the small city.

Bi Ming
Too small and horrible flag placing.

Al Kufrah Oilfield
I haven't played this one in 0.85 but I didn't like it in 0.8. If you play as armor it might be OK but if you play as infantry it sucks. The flag areas are easily rapeable.

EJOD Desert
Last one...I have never liked this map. I really hate it. The map is pretty big, but there is just a tiny city with loads of desert around it? What is the point?! Also it seems that with 0.85 this map has turned to that TOW vs. tank just like Qwai River. I just hope this will be removed asap.
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Old 2009-02-16, 22:36   #40
Gaven
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Default Re: Favorite PR v0.85 Maps

I loved Asad Khal.

One of the first times in PR where I had a good sustained firefight.

I have not seen any of the vanilla tactics people are claiming in here. If by vanilla, they mean an actually intense firefight where you constantly have to keep maneuver warfare going, then yes, it's vanilla.
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