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16 Jun 2019, 00:00:00 (PRT)
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PR:BF2 General Discussion General discussion of the Project Reality: BF2 modification.

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Old 2019-05-24, 22:57   #1
Valmont
Default FAMAS French Riffle (PR versus Real Life)

Hello dear PR community.

Having played PR for about 5 years now I am quite familiar with most weapons by now and I love how most rifles, specially the German ones, have been implemented and balanced in PR.

But there is one Rifle in particular that always felt weird to me and that is the FRENCH forces' FAMAS rifles.

It is the only rifle in the game that I simply cannot fire in full auto or even in 3 shots burst mode because it is ridiculously uncontrollable at any distance (for me).

But recently I have been watching lots of videos and reading lots of wiki entries about many of the weapons we can find in our beloved PR and I found among other FAMAS videos this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2SJMqbFzPs

And if you check it, or any other FAMAS video really, you will see that the riffle was specifically made for FULL AUTO FIRE up to the point that it is quite difficult for the operator to set it to single fire (watch the full video).

Not only that but the gun when fired in full auto even while standing has virtually no recoil at all.

The question here is... is it implemented somewhat different from reality in PR for balance reasons?

Or is it that the devs truly believe that the gun should not be meant to be fired in full auto?

I will leave that up for debate while also using this as an excuse to throw a huge appreciation thread for the amazing devs that still work on PR!
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Old 2019-05-25, 06:42   #2
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: FAMAS French Riffle (PR versus Real Life)

Due to the limitations within the BF2 engine, it has always been hard to find ways to mimic reality accurately whilst trying to promote teamplay. You're going to find a lot of people say "Oh well, I've fired 5.56mm no problem on full auto, why would a soldier struggle?" and the answer is that it's a piece of cake to reduce recoil values to practically nothing but as you can imagine, this impacts gameplay massively and would make it too easy to hit in full auto as we do not have sway and other realistic features in order to decrease practical accuracy, all we have to work with is recoil and deviation, and the recoil and deviation system(or rather the values our game has)was made by a guy who's never once fired a firearm.

Since most weapons use set deviation templates to streamline weapons of similar build, the only weapons that aren't balanced properly are the
A) Polish ones due somebody still not updating their scoped recoil reduction to 0.6(=>human error) as well as
B) those that fire at 900 RPM due to their recoil animation being cut short by their ROF(=>game engine)

Deployed LMGs and MGs are also far too potent to be considered fair but as that's the case for all factions(exception being the Iraqi Ins as they have to find MG pick-up kits) it's strictly speaking a matter of being unbalanced but rather these weapons being unfair/cheap compared to all other weapon systems.


Can it be changed? Well, yes, I actually made an attempt to completely overhaul the current values, but the problem is that it's very, VERY late into PR's life span, and thus people are harder to convince that your proposed change is an upgrade to the current values in almost every respect.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
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Old 2019-05-25, 07:26   #3
BlackGus

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Default Re: FAMAS French Riffle (PR versus Real Life)

The problem with the rifle is just the magazine with 25 rounds, recoil is ok, spray is ok,

PD: Is hard to make Famas G2? (or just increase to 30 rounds) Please devs add the rifle for SL, grenadier, breacher and medic kits

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Old 2019-05-25, 12:34   #4
qs-racer
Supporting Member

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Default Re: FAMAS French Riffle (PR versus Real Life)

G2 is not in use in the army (only naval forces have it). In PR, the french forces won't be concern by it.

Most of feedback from professionnal military is that the riffle is ligth and easy to manoever, low recoil on burst or auto. In fact only the first bullet have a recoil.

Test with canadian army
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkD48nCubfg

Test with US army :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVC6_9pc0_Q

Not that bad for soliders that are not trained with this weapon.


(By the way you video is with low load ammo, war ammo give more recoil)

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Last edited by qs-racer; 2019-05-26 at 06:01..
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Old 2019-05-25, 13:07   #5
Rabbit

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Default Re: FAMAS French Riffle (PR versus Real Life)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontliner View Post
as you can imagine, this impacts gameplay massively and would make it too easy to hit in full auto as we do not have sway and other realistic features in order to decrease practical accuracy, all we have to work with is recoil and deviation, and the recoil and deviation system
Who needs to imagine when PR accidentally released an updated with laser weapons.

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Old 2019-05-25, 20:49   #6
Valmont
Default Re: FAMAS French Riffle (PR versus Real Life)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontliner View Post
Due to the limitations within the BF2 engine, it has always been hard to find ways to mimic reality accurately whilst trying to promote teamplay.

Can it be changed? Well, yes, I actually made an attempt to completely overhaul the current values, but the problem is that it's very, VERY late into PR's life span, and thus people are harder to convince that your proposed change is an upgrade to the current values in almost every respect.
Thank you Frontliner for clearing that up.

I just want to say that I did not mean to suggest a change here, just a friendly debate.

I understand that people are used to some values and I would be fuc**** pissed if you changed the G36K even in the slightest. I mean if you even look at my G36K I will hunt that dev down!
(Just kidding!).

It just seemed a little unfair to the FAMAS, that other rifles with more recoil/more powerful ammunition behave better.

And I don't think many will complain if you reduced recoil and increased deviation and perhaps decreased damage in favor of both balance and also life like behavior.

Again... my opinion. And the FAMAS is the only rifle I would personally tweak if it was up to me. All the others DO behave on par with what you see on videos or people with experience say about them.
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Old 2019-05-26, 07:42   #7
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: FAMAS French Riffle (PR versus Real Life)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valmont View Post
It just seemed a little unfair to the FAMAS, that other rifles with more recoil/more powerful ammunition behave better.
Whatever you feel is not really supported by the values in the tweaker file which governs recoil though. The Famas has virtually the same recoil as the L85 or QBZ so it's kind of weird to hear that one weapon behaves awkward yet the other two are fine.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
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Old 2019-05-26, 08:55   #8
qs-racer
Supporting Member

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Default Re: FAMAS French Riffle (PR versus Real Life)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontliner View Post
Whatever you feel is not really supported by the values in the tweaker file which governs recoil though. The Famas has virtually the same recoil as the L85 or QBZ so it's kind of weird to hear that one weapon behaves awkward yet the other two are fine.
Rate of fire, scope feeling

These weapons are not nice on full auto with scope.
The short version of QBZ, without scope give very good feeling.

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Old 2019-05-26, 16:06   #9
Rabbit

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Default Re: FAMAS French Riffle (PR versus Real Life)

Biggest problem with recoil is no use of "back down on recoil" setting.

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Old 2019-05-26, 22:03   #10
Valmont
Default Re: FAMAS French Riffle (PR versus Real Life)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontliner View Post
Whatever you feel is not really supported by the values in the tweaker file which governs recoil though. The Famas has virtually the same recoil as the L85 or QBZ so it's kind of weird to hear that one weapon behaves awkward yet the other two are fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by qs-racer View Post
Rate of fire, scope feeling

These weapons are not nice on full auto with scope.
The short version of QBZ, without scope give very good feeling.
The difference does lie in the RATE OF FIRE.

You see:

QBZ: 650 RPM
L85: 610-775 RPM
FAMAS F1: 900-1.000 RPM
(Source: Wikipedia)

So if you leave the same recoil values with a higher RPM my guess is that handling would feel a lot worst for the FAMAS than the slower firing competition.

Of course I don't know if the RPM values of the 3 weapons match real life in PR but if that is the case then that could be the culprit of the issue I am describing.

PS: Just tested the 3 weapons in question in FULL AUTO and 3 rounds bursts and the L85 feels the best while handling while QBZ is close second and the FAMAS feels the most "uncontrollable" for me at least.
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