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Old 2018-07-08, 09:29   #11
WeeGeez
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Default Re: [Guide] Budget PR Build - ECO graphics cards compared

Possibly. It could be the motherboard. However consider the chart. I tested a GT 710 and it generally was worse. It's not even on the chart. Also consider differences between mid range cards alone lay soley in superficial features, such as G-Sync, 3D vision, CUDA, Streamline, Vulkan, max resolution, display port, features that will only benefit newer games. For such low tier cards, imo, most of these features are useless marketing buzzwords.
Quote:
The GT 640 and the GTX 650 are the exact same card except for a moderate frequency difference and the type of memory and other superficial differences - source
and that
Quote:
it is cheaper to manufacture a single chip and cripple it in some way for different product lines then it is to make different silicon for every product. source
For bus powered cards over the years, its probable a limiter exists at BIOS/firmware level that restricts power (irrespective of a cards peak power). Voltages appear to be halved (see graph).
I noticed some newer GTX 750 (non-Ti) <75watts variants, for reasons unknown, have connectors still soldered. The presence of connectors on a low wattage card suggests they may be un capped if going by the logic:
No connector = capped voltage
connector = un capped
If true, this means these cards are the first ever, unrestricted, bus powered cards. Because 64 isn't far of 75 it makes sense, naturally in line with advances in lithography and direction of transistor miniaturization.

Quote:
the GTX 650 does in fact not pull anywhere near enough power to need the PCIe connector. The GTX 650 Ti pulls considerably more power and it could get away with not using the connector if Nvidia wanted it to (the same is true for the Radeon 7770 and the Radeon 7750s that have the connector). (source)
To summarize: (OK means low power)
GT x10 and GT x20 - Avoid like the plague
GT x30 and GT x40 - OK but only at low resolutions. Remember: ROPs 8 minimum.
where x = 4/6/7/9 or 10

GTX 450 and earlier not ok / GTX 650* and above ok *64 watt
GTX 650 Ti and earlier not ok / GTX 750 Ti** ok **60 watt

There are SC and OC variants of the 650 and 750, those have connectors. Again, same chipset but uncapped voltage.

As long as its under 75w, the system can be powered by one of these (below) alone and not a 750w monster.
Spoiler for psu:

*cough* small form factor pr machine *cough*

If anyone is sure what may cause 46% GPU with low FPS usage leave a message, until proven otherwise its likely FW cap. The only other culprit is maybe CPU bottleneck but at 3.6Ghz aided with dedicated sound card, its unlikely Imo.


PC FPS SINCE 1998 - PR Til I Die
Cheap / fast track upgrade for slow PR computer > Guide
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Last edited by WeeGeez; 2019-05-17 at 00:45.. Reason: 300 edits later
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Old 2018-07-09, 11:28   #12
PLODDITHANLEY
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Default Re: [Guide] Budget PR Build - ECO graphics cards compared

I see you're running on a 32 bit OS. My wife's PC E8600 (3.16), HD6870, but with 32bit OS Will barely run PR it won't even load Kashan anymore. My 10 year old 64bit laptop however is ok P8600 (2.4), cheap SSD, 4GB ram and a 9600M GT, however load times are very long and low graphics with smoke induced slideshow.

I have come to the conclusion PR really needs a 64bit OS with a 4GB minimum.

My main PC is 2500k @ 4.3, 16GB, Samsung Evo SSD, gtx970.

What gt730 did you use as there is 3 main versions.

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Old 2018-07-09, 15:31   #13
WeeGeez
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Default Re: [Guide] Budget PR Build - ECO graphics cards compared

Nah, PR should run fine on 32bit, as I remember it. I played for years on 32bit. The engine is ancient.
Theres a bloody picture in OP of the GT 730 used. Its 'equivalent' to AMD A10 5700K on the chart.

==================================================

Updated Guide to reflect PERF BETA. Improvements so major new tests were in order.
9800GT or 730 GT can't be tested because they've since been sold.


PC FPS SINCE 1998 - PR Til I Die
Cheap / fast track upgrade for slow PR computer > Guide
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Old 2018-07-13, 13:18   #14
saXoni
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Default Re: [Guide] Budget PR Build - ECO graphics cards compared

Shouldn't you be looking at CPUs instead of GPUs?
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Old 2018-07-14, 00:05   #15
WeeGeez
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Default Re: [Guide] Budget PR Build - ECO graphics cards compared

True Sax, problem with better CPUs is they're going to be newer = newer sockets = newer motherboard and before you know it, a compatible stick of ram for such a system costs as much as the entire system in the guide example. (£52.50). In any event should you spend this much on ram, may as well go all the way, right? This guide is the polar opposite of that, cheap-as-possible.

In my experience, a suitable low cost, small form factor GPU was PITA to pin down. What prompted me to make this guide was the realization that not all low tier parts made today can handle PR. I don't understand why manufacturers insist on putting out garbage like low tier GT x10 and x20 (and AMD equivalent) cards. Its unethical and a waste of resources. they're as good as if not worse than embedded solutions. Its alarming how much retailers try to sell them for (like £65 for a GT 710? wtf) I wouldn't have made past, costly, mistakes if I had this guide back then. Nobody has come forth with a guide. Comparison websites are too vague, leaving you irritable should whatever budget parts turn out to be unsatisfactory..

Lastly, and @Ploddit. I want to report that your right in that the system I used was a bit off, though not by much. By using an alternative motherboard, this time an intel board (of similar age) fitted with E8600, the fps increased by 10 (I only tested vadso).


PC FPS SINCE 1998 - PR Til I Die
Cheap / fast track upgrade for slow PR computer > Guide
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Old 2019-04-16, 20:16   #16
akilmaf

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Smile Re: [Guide] Budget PR Build - ECO graphics cards compared

I've not even read the details of your post but man thanks a lot for your great work! How can I thank you without reading it? Well, I've been looking for a PC to play PR without problems. I am not a gamer but I am in love with PR! I just don't want to pay for a system that has too high specs for PR. I am a father of 2 kids so I don't have time to dig in for a fair system. You just gave us all a great shortcut to skip this stressful process and just make a choice.

That's why I would like to thank you a lot! Writing this now before I forget to appreciate your effort. Thanks again!

United we stand, divided we fall
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Old 2019-05-07, 12:28   #17
WeeGeez
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Default Re: [Guide] Budget PR Build - ECO graphics cards compared

Thanks,

Although the guide was somewhat tedious, it should grant people with smaller budgets to play and in turn permit a much needed player base boost for the mod.
The affordability vs re-playability aspect of PR simply cannot be ignored, let alone the time that has went into it.

Your post is what I always looked forward to.


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Cheap / fast track upgrade for slow PR computer > Guide
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