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Old 2019-06-15, 13:13   #11
[R-CON]​Fastjack
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Default Re: Fix released for Commander artillery in Coop/SP ?

The thing is, when you get bot-mortard, you can dodge it out by breaking the line of sight.
By scripted events like this arty, you cannot sneak/hide anymore and stealth is also a part of this game and many times seen in Deployment.

Quote:
However, we both know the locations of bot mortars are known to those who play and often they are always taken out before they even pose a threat.
As i pm'ed you. Ask cassius23 if he can look into the placeable_rallypoints_random code as base, that was the hind Outlawz gave me as i asked for it.

We need randomness for PRSP bipods, fakemines, the hideouts+++, mortars and other static-defense stuff.

This and Coop gameplay is each round differently and not this " i know where i have to counterfire the botmortars/spawnpoints etc. at roundstart gameplay".
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Old 2019-06-17, 18:47   #12
Michael Z Freeman

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Default Re: Fix released for Commander artillery in Coop/SP ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastjack View Post
My opinion is that PR doesn't need this arty.
We have already bot mortars. It would feel more realistic if we create an botmanned artillery.
I dont like python scripted artillery but botmanned ones is a different story.
The thing is this AI commander artillery is "bot manned". That's the whole point of the plugin. It' s a working replacement for DICE/EA's breaking of the commander AI - effectively a bot, a bunch of code, machine brains. So I don't know what you mean by "more realistic".

But I don't know if the plugin would fit into PR Coop/SP. Maybe mortars have become the de facto PR replacement for the missing commander artillery. That was always great. But so far I've been impressed by this plugin as it appears to be well coded and customisable. It also does not add any extra CPU overhead that I can see, although I can only test that in AIX2 as I don't have access to all the PR Python code.

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Old 2019-06-17, 20:56   #13
[R-CON]​Fastjack
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Default Re: Fix released for Commander artillery in Coop/SP ?

About more realistic and what i meant.

Is someone able to kill this arty bot? YES/NO?

Actually, the bot, who is sitting in the mortar, can be killed and the mortars too.
You can fight the threat as player. Nice side mission in coop AND deployment.

How the players can fight this arty? Please explain.

And if you're able to destroy this arty, we have still the same problem as before :

Quote:
However, we both know the locations of bot mortars are known to those who play and often they are always taken out before they even pose a threat.
So my opinion is, that PRSP need more dynamic gameplay and not firepower for the bots.
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Old 2019-06-18, 06:11   #14
[R-CON]​Double_13
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Default Re: Fix released for Commander artillery in Coop/SP ?

Exactly as Fastjack said. The inability to counter/destroy the artillery would make it unfair for humans, hence why I mentioned fixing the bot mortars.

In theory the mortars should be more destructive than the artillery, this as the mortars will provide continues fire rather than a once every 10 min 20 sec of arty shells. However the current method of coop consists of killing the mortars before they are even in range. This is due to the fact that people know the mortar locations and take them out as soon they respawn.

By adding dynamic spawning to TOW/AA/Mortar/MG the potential locations one of these could spawn would make it harder. This as the humans would no longer be able to instantly know where the mortar (or other) static is active. Depending on the crazyness of the GPO layer the potential mortar locations could exceed 50 locations.
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Old 2019-06-21, 17:06   #15
Michael Z Freeman

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Default Re: Fix released for Commander artillery in Coop/SP ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_13 View Post
By adding dynamic spawning to TOW/AA/Mortar/MG the potential locations one of these could spawn would make it harder. This as the humans would no longer be able to instantly know where the mortar (or other) static is active. Depending on the crazyness of the GPO layer the potential mortar locations could exceed 50 locations.
Love this idea. Random mortars

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Originally Posted by Double_13 View Post
Exactly as Fastjack said. The inability to counter/destroy the artillery would make it unfair for humans, hence why I mentioned fixing the bot mortars.
Actually you can counter it but I don't know if that could be written into PR ...

Quote:
FEATURES
1. If there's no human player being the commander, AI commander would automatically use artillery strikes. Destroying enemy artillery objects can weaken or cut off enemy artillery strikes, like in online games.
2. If there's human player on command, there will be no auto-artillery for the team.
3. AI commander utilizes the satellite scan to get information about enemy locations, which is to say, destroying the radar can also protect friendly units from enemy artillery.
(Source: The readme in the plugin archive)

Yes, there is no actual commander bot that you can shoot, but DICE/EA broke all that anyway in the first place.

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Old 2019-06-21, 20:17   #16
[R-CON]​Fastjack
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Default Re: Fix released for Commander artillery in Coop/SP ?

Ok, this here are only my opinions. Maybe other pr coop players think different.

PR coop afaik isn't designed to punish players/newbies with orbital bombardments with perfect accuracy when they group/squad up.
PR coop is the trainingsmode not singleplayer.
They should learning the aspect of this game like teamwork, squad cohesion, communication with other squads like trans, apc's and logistic and other fireteams.

This arty script is unforgiveable to those players who start learning the game.
When you get killed by a bot you had atleast the chance to kill him/it or take cover but this is sudden death.

Excamle:
A squad requesting armored trans and both squads get killed by an arty strike because at the wrong time to many blueberries was on the satelite to close together. Doesn't matter if both teams was far beyond off from any threat. PR coop maps are big related to other BF2 mods maps.

In an deployment round would that an genius move and luck to get this done.
In reallife, those arty strikes are an exceptional excample how to use artillery.
In coop it's a nightmare.

It isn't nice to wait 5 - 7 minutes to the next apc or tank spawn.
It isn't nice to be a medic to revive multiple teammates but you have only 30-45 seconds for the jobs.
It isn't nice sitting perfectly in the middle of an Project Reality Game arty strike. It's powerfull toy bro.

On the other side:
The coop hardcore players know exactly what they have todo to elimate the chance of any arty strike from this script. We still have a problem, Houston.

This script is really nice for coop when you have a own gamemode for it like gpm_coop_counter insurgency.

But i have an idea
The Deployment section had many topics-complaints about "commander and what is his job" the last 10 years.
Many deployment's said that the commander function is only a one shot action META and not a full round job. Maybe this arty script is the perfect replacement for the endless discussion.

I'm sure the Uber-Hardcore PR Deployment players like that accurate surgical arty strike system because it can simulate an attack of a flying fortress so no one has to model this plane.
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Old 2019-06-24, 16:32   #17
Michael Z Freeman

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Default Re: Fix released for Commander artillery in Coop/SP ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastjack View Post
Ok, this here are only my opinions. Maybe other pr coop players think different.

PR coop afaik isn't designed to punish players/newbies with orbital bombardments with perfect accuracy when they group/squad up.
PR coop is the trainingsmode not singleplayer.

They should learning the aspect of this game like teamwork, squad cohesion, communication with other squads like trans, apc's and logistic and other fireteams.


Entirely agree. I believe that this was the original intent.

Quote:
This arty script is unforgiveable to those players who start learning the game.

Also in answer to your examples below. Are you referring to the plugin in it's default state ? I've tested it in AIX2 and it is unforgivable. However in Pr it would need to be re-written to work with a squad member requesting artillery using the binoculars. AFAIK this is the only way of getting an artillery strike in PR. The PR commander cannot put artillery on the map using satellite scan. That part of the plugin would be disabled.

Quote:
When you get killed by a bot you had atleast the chance to kill him/it or take cover but this is sudden death.

Excamle:
A squad requesting armored trans and both squads get killed by an arty strike because at the wrong time to many blueberries was on the satelite to close together. Doesn't matter if both teams was far beyond off from any threat. PR coop maps are big related to other BF2 mods maps.

In an deployment round would that an genius move and luck to get this done.
In reallife, those arty strikes are an exceptional excample how to use artillery.
In coop it's a nightmare.

It isn't nice to wait 5 - 7 minutes to the next apc or tank spawn.
It isn't nice to be a medic to revive multiple teammates but you have only 30-45 seconds for the jobs.
It isn't nice sitting perfectly in the middle of an Project Reality Game arty strike. It's powerfull toy bro.

On the other side:
The coop hardcore players know exactly what they have todo to elimate the chance of any arty strike from this script. We still have a problem, Houston.
Destroy the commander position ? Not easy. PR does not have the rotating satellite dish or the actual artillery guns themselves that can be destroyed in vanilla BF2.

Quote:
This script is really nice for coop when you have a own gamemode for it like gpm_coop_counter insurgency.

But i have an idea
The Deployment section had many topics-complaints about "commander and what is his job" the last 10 years.
Many deployment's said that the commander function is only a one shot action META and not a full round job. Maybe this arty script is the perfect replacement for the endless discussion.

I'm sure the Uber-Hardcore PR Deployment players like that accurate surgical arty strike system because it can simulate an attack of a flying fortress so no one has to model this plane.
The script plugin simply proves that AI commander responses as they were pre the 1.5 patch can be implemented in Python. At one point this was the Holy Grail of AI BF2 modding. Things may have moved on but anything that fixes what EA/DICE broke is a good thing in my book.

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Old 2019-06-26, 08:31   #18
[R-CON]​Double_13
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Default Re: Fix released for Commander artillery in Coop/SP ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastjack View Post

It isn't nice to be a medic to revive multiple teammates but you have only 30-45 seconds for
its a server setting. (not having fast respawns makes maps easy but i can agree 30 seconds is to short)

Back to the artillery topic,
Even if we would get the bots to use the arty in itself it is not a problem.
This as i assume the bots will be so dumb to call it upon useless targets and probably TK more friendlies than enemies.

However this in itself would than be an issue as we have yet again a feature that does not work 100% the way it should be.

Thus in all it would be better to allocate time in fixing mortars and potentially randomize them than to implement a feature that is OP but unlikely to be used correctly.
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Old 2019-07-28, 15:06   #19
Michael Z Freeman

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Default Re: Fix released for Commander artillery in Coop/SP ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_13 View Post
its a server setting. (not having fast respawns makes maps easy but i can agree 30 seconds is to short)

Back to the artillery topic,
Even if we would get the bots to use the arty in itself it is not a problem.
This as i assume the bots will be so dumb to call it upon useless targets and probably TK more friendlies than enemies.

However this in itself would than be an issue as we have yet again a feature that does not work 100% the way it should be.

Thus in all it would be better to allocate time in fixing mortars and potentially randomize them than to implement a feature that is OP but unlikely to be used correctly.
It not "the bots" running it. It's a script that simply scans the maps CP's and scans for enemies so when certain conditions are met in comes the artillery. I have not extensively tested but I did not notice major inappropriate uses of artillery. Have you tried running it yourself ?

However it still may be the case for PR that time is better spent on mortars or other functions as you say. It has to be fit into PR, or not.

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