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Old 2022-04-09, 16:00   #1
Crylink
Post Countering Snipers as regular infantry

Hi everybody this thread is about countering snipers.

The following video shows how helpless an infantry squad is against a sniper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBLj...channel=Birdie

as we can see in the footage the sniper is located on top of the fortress in Masirah , and the infantry is by the hangers at the airport.
the actual range between the two units is roughly 800m , well beyond the visual range of the infantry he is engaging.

As I see it , one counter the infantry had was smoke grenades. but Since there's no muzzle flash from the sniper shot it would be hard to tell where to throw it.

A second counter could be a marksman kit , but depending on the range and scope on the rifle, the marksman kit could be an ineffective counter.

what would you say another counter is? Are snipers in the game fair?
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Last edited by Crylink; 2022-04-09 at 16:13..
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Old 2022-04-09, 16:31   #2
Grump/Gump.45

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Default Re: Countering Snipers as regular infantry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crylink View Post
Hi everybody this thread is about countering snipers.

The following video shows how helpless an infantry squad is against a sniper:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBLj...channel=Birdie

as we can see in the footage the sniper is located on top of the fortress in Masirah , and the infantry is by the hangers at the airport.
the actual range between the two units is roughly 800m , well beyond the visual range of the infantry he is engaging.

As I see it , one counter the infantry had was smoke grenades. but Since there's no muzzle flash from the sniper shot it would be hard to tell where to throw it.

A second counter could be a marksman kit , but depending on the range and scope on the rifle, the marksman kit could be an ineffective counter.

what would you say another counter is? Are snipers in the game fair?
This is a tough one, forget fairness though. War is not fair, artillery is not fair. You can have the best soldier but nothing except a shovel and few big picture tactics can save him. The only thing I can say is un-fair about snipers, is no cross wind beyond 600 meters affecting bullet or steady drop. I wish it took a few of the real life ballistic data factors to consider into flight. Give a cone of fire to figure out where bullet will land.

Smoke grenades don't last that long, it needs to be used for an action or movement to recover somebody to safety.

You need teamwork from another squad, if you can't kill the sniper without getting killed from the squad he is giving problems. You need support for somewhere else. Send mortars, TOW, LAT, lots of HMG, APC fire, tanks to deal with him.

Problem is once this asset makes itself known before it gets to engage the sniper hides from it out of angle. Meaning if your support is looking for an accurate target to shoot, they will never shoot. Just get his location and send projectiles of any kind in there. Otherwise don't give the sniper the satisfaction
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Old 2022-04-09, 16:59   #3
Crylink
Default Re: Countering Snipers as regular infantry

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Originally Posted by Grump/Gump.45 View Post
This is a tough one, forget fairness though. War is not fair, artillery is not fair. You can have the best soldier but nothing except a shovel and few big picture tactics can save him. The only thing I can say is un-fair about snipers, is no cross wind beyond 600 meters affecting bullet or steady drop. I wish it took a few of the real life ballistic data factors to consider into flight. Give a cone of fire to figure out where bullet will land.

Smoke grenades don't last that long, it needs to be used for an action or movement to recover somebody to safety.

You need teamwork from another squad, if you can't kill the sniper without getting killed from the squad he is giving problems. You need support for somewhere else. Send mortars, TOW, LAT, lots of HMG, APC fire, tanks to deal with him.

Problem is once this asset makes itself known before it gets to engage the sniper hides from it out of angle. Meaning if your support is looking for an accurate target to shoot, they will never shoot. Just get his location and send projectiles of any kind in there. Otherwise don't give the sniper the satisfaction

I agree mostly but you are missing one thing. There's no muzzle flash.
There's no reliable way to tell exactly where the sniper is even when he starts firing.
suppressing fire should do the trick but practically the infantry insight of the sniper CANT SEE the sniper because of low resolution(not everyone has 4k monitors).
The sniper is only peeking the tip of his head necessary to fire at his enemy, therefor even a marksman with a medium power scope would only see a dark dot where the sniper is and wouldn't be able to tell if its just an odd dark dot or a sniper since there's no difference at a distance.(No muzzle flash ,tracer or dust kicking up).

the only way to find the sniper is if the SL with his officer kit takes out the binoculars and spots him, this is problematic if the SL get killed first or the sniper is pinning the officer.

Also I suggest we keep TOW and other assets out of this thread because not all maps have assets, mortars(blurfor on ins) or TOW(ARF ,insurgents , Vietnam factions and Argentina don't get them)
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Last edited by Crylink; 2022-04-09 at 17:15..
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Old 2022-04-09, 19:23   #4
[R-CON]​Chuva_RD
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Default Re: Countering Snipers as regular infantry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crylink View Post
what would you say another counter is? Are snipers in the game fair?
1) move sideways to direction to the sniper, targets which walk towards or away from sniper are easy, shooting on people toggling sprint and just walking sideways is complicated. Shooting on moving targets is very very hard on long distances, therefore keep your speed always: never lay down, never stay

2) dont try to find sniper visually, only sound, and dont allow others to search for sniper with optics. Snipers collect all these pokemons and end up with 30+ kills. Ignore sniper, he will want you to find him

3) use smoke to block his vision

4) know sniper positions which are top by popularity and top by effectiveness, expect that there will be somebody. Try to wound sniper if he doesnt pay attention to you, but dont compete with him in accurate shooting, send HE if he dont see you

5) have your own sniper who knows how to play for enemy sniper and can counter him if he wants to duel, but snipers often orbit in vacuum and dont try to shoot each other

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crylink View Post
Are snipers in the game fair?
fair in a fight against what? if APC then not so fair
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Old 2022-04-09, 20:52   #5
Crylink
Default Re: Countering Snipers as regular infantry

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Originally Posted by Chuva_RD View Post
1) move sideways to direction to the sniper, targets which walk towards or away from sniper are easy, shooting on people toggling sprint and just walking sideways is complicated. Shooting on moving targets is very very hard on long distances, therefore keep your speed always: never lay down, never stay

2) dont try to find sniper visually, only sound, and dont allow others to search for sniper with optics. Snipers collect all these pokemons and end up with 30+ kills. Ignore sniper, he will want you to find him

3) use smoke to block his vision

4) know sniper positions which are top by popularity and top by effectiveness, expect that there will be somebody. Try to wound sniper if he doesnt pay attention to you, but dont compete with him in accurate shooting, send HE if he dont see you

5) have your own sniper who knows how to play for enemy sniper and can counter him if he wants to duel, but snipers often orbit in vacuum and dont try to shoot each other


fair in a fight against what? if APC then not so fair
1 - I agree that moving sideways is harder to hit but still very doable as seen in the video linked above.

2- Agree but still difficult to tell where he is exactly.

3-smoke is cool but doesn't stop bullets , and by the time the smoke disperses you are most likely dead.

4-I agree that you should know popular and obvious positions, but wounding a sniper is almost impossible because he is just 1 pixel on the screen often times.

5- Not practical since most snipers are snatched right away by lonewolves and no mics who often wont cooperate or even be able to communicate with since they're in a freekit squad or an asset squad that wont bother with them.

fairness - In my opinion snipers should be able to outrange rifles of an infantry squad but the machinegunner or marksman should be able to suppress the sniper back to hiding. but heres the problem ingame, snipers cannot be found due to low resolution and therefor cannot be suppressed , if there was a way to have muzzle flash or dust kick up from the firing of the sniper rifle it would be easier to find. and its just frustrating that 1 sniper can kill 30+ like nothing.

In Muttrah city for example, USMC snipers are dropped off on the mountains where MEC cant reach or see them.
and they are able to pick off mostly everybody.
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Old 2022-04-09, 21:57   #6
Grump/Gump.45

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Default Re: Countering Snipers as regular infantry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crylink View Post
I agree mostly but you are missing one thing. There's no muzzle flash.
There's no reliable way to tell exactly where the sniper is even when he starts firing.
suppressing fire should do the trick but practically the infantry insight of the sniper CANT SEE the sniper because of low resolution(not everyone has 4k monitors).
The sniper is only peeking the tip of his head necessary to fire at his enemy

the only way to find the sniper is if the SL with his officer kit takes out the binoculars and spots him, this is problematic if the SL get killed first or the sniper is pinning the officer.

Also I suggest we keep TOW and other assets out of this thread because not all maps have assets
Ok so only infantry dealing with sniper. Its a problem that pins people and working that problem costs lives and attention on other enemies supporting the sniper. Using the enemy reaction toward their sniper

No basic moves, no simple peeking around corners or even from other side of cars. Find loop holes in the environment where you typically wouldn't look through using it or focus on as a sniper against that type of terrain feature.

Don't sit still for scopes. In the video I say increase range, those guys getting sniped at are just within view distance. Use the sound of enemy sniper rifle to know which way to move further away, it is a distinguishable sound. That airplane in the background, the underside and the round wheels could provide loop holes.

Long ago in Project Reality on Fallujah, I was the assistant sniper with a Mosin Nagant Ironsight to both a scoped Mosin and SVD in the building just north of gas station. I would wait for the scoped rifle to fire, then I fire as soon as I hear him shoot the target. If the scope for some reason didn't register or get him all the way, I got the kill. Use this concept with marksmen fires first, then everyone else.

Do 1 man per piece of cover pre-positioned then 1,2,3 EVERYONE PEEK. He can only get one at a time, the excitement could make him slightly less accurate, also most sniper rifles only have 5 shots. Do dodging movements. Guy who sits still the most exposed gets shot first unless the sniper is like me and leaves him as easy dumb target for later.

(Side note, if enemy came in building, my Mosin Nagant was rigged like a booby trap, stabilized and set off by me BOOBY TRAP MENTALITY. Play dead or otherwise be the fear without IEDs)

Did I mention I'm a deadly SOB? Life is like a box of chocolates fool, you never know if its me till you break down that psychological warfare that done happened to you or your friendlies. Get to know me on the Squad v12 and Project Reality 1.5 teamwork playlist on YouTube for 20+ skills
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Old 2022-04-09, 22:06   #7
Grump/Gump.45

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Exclamation Re: Countering Snipers as regular infantry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crylink View Post
I agree mostly but you are missing one thing. There's no muzzle flash.
There's no reliable way to tell exactly where the sniper is even when he starts firing.
suppressing fire should do the trick but practically the infantry insight of the sniper CANT SEE the sniper because of low resolution(not everyone has 4k monitors).

The sniper is only peeking the tip of his head necessary to fire at his enemy, therefor even a marksman with a medium power scope would only see a dark dot where the sniper is and wouldn't be able to tell if its just an odd dark dot or a sniper since there's no difference at a distance.(No muzzle flash ,tracer or dust kicking up).
That is exactly why I say "Scan aggressively, anything suspect gets it. If it looks like a head or body part peeking tap it. 1 man per piece of cover in view of each other to save each other. 1 man hurt per mortar, tank shell and RPG" (by distraction of being target and shooting together)

Only thing I need to add to that, is if the uniform blends into the background of a building interior or background of terrain tap the window, tap the suspect thing sticking out. Even if its a rock. You could be looking over a section of tan buildings and wont notice the tan uniform head your eyes just pass over.

People get annoyed when I say that, I shouldn't say people cause they are toxic. I say it to program the mind to see targets faster with more suspicious paranoia and detail. It reminds and programs the mind. Scan aggressively for anything suspect, if it looks like it could be enemy peeking hit it.

Look at my profile picture, in the jungle this is why you want to scan aggressively for anything suspect that stands out.
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Old 2022-04-10, 11:19   #8
PatrickLA_CA
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Default Re: Countering Snipers as regular infantry

If you see someone get shot by a sniper, don't go there, definitely don't stand there. Makes the job a lot more difficult for snipers. Locate by sound, find with binocs, open up with MG/LAT?
At least in PR snipers are not that much at an advantage, especially if you can talk to other squads or assets.

In-game: Cobra-PR
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Old 2022-04-11, 03:02   #9
BigBigMonkeyMan
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Default Re: Countering Snipers as regular infantry

Sound is the best way to locate a sniper. Many times, I can pinpoint the direction of a sniper within 25 degrees after seeing someone go down and hearing the shot. Then I inform my squad "Do not expose yourself to the NE, sniper is that direction," or something to that effect. From there, I consult my map and look for possible buildings, hills, or vantage points the sniper could be located. Then I give a guess what map/keypad the sniper is and let other squads know in SL chat and mark it on the map. Intel and communication are key.
The more people know the approximate location, the quicker we can find the exact location and figure out how to deal with it. If its extreme range like the video, I most likely ignore them with caution, but at 500 meters or less it usually is not too difficult to kill them or cause them to relocate.
Of course, terrain plays a big role like in the video. FOB camping in the open is hard to get past, not sure why it was placed there when it could have been placed inside the hangar. I applaud the sniper team.

"We will not go quietly into the night! We will not vanish without a fight! We're going to live on, we're going to survive.' Today we celebrate our independence day!"
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Old 2022-04-18, 19:56   #10
[R-CON]​Chuva_RD
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Default Re: Countering Snipers as regular infantry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crylink View Post
1 - I agree that moving sideways is harder to hit but still very doable as seen in the video linked above.

2- Agree but still difficult to tell where he is exactly.

3-smoke is cool but doesn't stop bullets , and by the time the smoke disperses you are most likely dead.

4-I agree that you should know popular and obvious positions, but wounding a sniper is almost impossible because he is just 1 pixel on the screen often times.

5- Not practical since most snipers are snatched right away by lonewolves and no mics who often wont cooperate or even be able to communicate with since they're in a freekit squad or an asset squad that wont bother with them.
1 - its not just harder, its much harder. Different rifles have different zoom on optics, meaning different offset from target. You can estimate the offset, but it will work for targets moving perpendicular to you and will scale nonlinearly with angle changing. Hitting targets who sprint a bit and then walk is just luck, might aswell use MG.

2 - Yes, especially if he is 800m away. You dont need to know exactly, just dont lay down and dont stop

3 - and where to shoot? snipers cant spray. They can preaim on tow going under smoke, but just know that you will die if you get in and wait until he shoots, then get in.

4 - well then just try to cancel him, deny him kills.

5 - just like any asset, you have better chances to take sniper than take cas actually

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crylink View Post

fairness - In my opinion snipers should be able to outrange rifles of an infantry squad but the machinegunner or marksman should be able to suppress the sniper back to hiding. but heres the problem ingame, snipers cannot be found due to low resolution and therefor cannot be suppressed , if there was a way to have muzzle flash or dust kick up from the firing of the sniper rifle it would be easier to find. and its just frustrating that 1 sniper can kill 30+ like nothing.
and how many snipers making 30+ each round you see? when its taken by noobs they kill some and then use pistol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crylink View Post
In Muttrah city for example, USMC snipers are dropped off on the mountains where MEC cant reach or see them.
and they are able to pick off mostly everybody.
muttrah map design is outdated indeed. You can kill the sniper, he has half of the head sticking out from the ridge. Use your own sniper to kill him, thats where you need to shoot properly.
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