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17 Nov 2019, 00:00:00 (PRT)
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Old 2017-01-23, 19:15   #21
PeppeJ

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Default Re: Raise squad max of engineers to 2 instead of 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-CON]rPoXoTauJIo View Post
Would it make sense for gameplay reasons if mines damage would be decreased, but overall count of them heavily increased in engineer kit? Like takes 5 of them to kill tank, and kit would have 8, so engineer would have choice between explosive power and large coverage area.
Wouldn't it make more sense to have some sort of big mine instead then? Similar to how insurgents how different sized IEDs. So big mine = instagib tank. Then you have a couple of small ones for lighter vehicles. Idk if the factions have different sized mines IRL though.

I guess this suggestion would be same as just giving the engineer more mines...

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Old 2017-01-24, 11:31   #22
Mouthpiece
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Default Re: Raise squad max of engineers to 2 instead of 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-CON]rPoXoTauJIo View Post
Would it make sense for gameplay reasons if mines damage would be decreased, but overall count of them heavily increased in engineer kit? Like takes 5 of them to kill tank, and kit would have 8, so engineer would have choice between explosive power and large coverage area.
I like this idea. I say nerf the regular mine so it takes 2-3 to kill a tank (1 to disable tracks making it smoke some 420). And give engineer like 3-6 mines (can't think of a good amount) instead of 1. Minefields would be a thing then (which is awesome as now in PR there's actually no quick and effective way to deny some area).

IMHO, mine should disable/detrack/de-tire a vehicle 99% of times.
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Old 2017-01-24, 12:31   #23
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: Raise squad max of engineers to 2 instead of 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-CON]rPoXoTauJIo View Post
Would it make sense for gameplay reasons if mines damage would be decreased, but overall count of them heavily increased in engineer kit? Like takes 5 of them to kill tank, and kit would have 8, so engineer would have choice between explosive power and large coverage area.
Not really. Mines are only really effective on chokepoints close to the enemy main, so when a tank sets off one of them all he has to do is to return back to main, repair for 20 seconds, he can then decide to take a different route or drive over the now clear area. Maybe he hits another mine but then it's just rinse and repeat. So unless you want players to stack them up on top of each other more or less(which would then completely neutralize receiving more of them) you'll only be a minor inconvenience with them for the most part.

While PeppeJ's suggestion is not entirely true to reality it's not entirely wrong either. I would assume the key difference now being mostly the way these mines function, for the German Army we would have the smaller AT-2 and DM 21 mines deployed en masse(though not by hand normally but by the Skorpion mine dispenser or the MARS) to hinder vehicular movements and designed to neutralize or kill smaller vehicles, as well as the DM 12 Panzerabwehrrichtmine(lit. "directed/focused anti-tank mine"), a small shaped charge missile which launches automatically if a vehicle has entered a designated area up to 100m away from it. Pretty sure mine systems similar to the latter have been adopted by all major nations by now. Would be interesting to see these kind of systems working in game. So it would be justifyable to have big mines and smaller ones as part of the CE's equipment.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
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Old 2017-01-24, 15:27   #24
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: Raise squad max of engineers to 2 instead of 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-CON]rPoXoTauJIo View Post
Would it make sense for gameplay reasons if mines damage would be decreased, but overall count of them heavily increased in engineer kit? Like takes 5 of them to kill tank, and kit would have 8, so engineer would have choice between explosive power and large coverage area.
Really good idea.

Like others already said we would finally be able to effectively deny areas to the opposing vehicles and set up real minefield in a reasonable amount of time.

More realistic too since real mines are primarily meant to disable armour by destroying the tracks, they normally don't have enough power to destroy the whole MBT though.
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Old 2017-01-24, 23:32   #25
Cavazos

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Default Re: Raise squad max of engineers to 2 instead of 1

There's no need to limit blowing up bases to engineers only. I think it's a great balance having the breacher and engineer kits when it comes to demolition ability. You can take the versatile breacher, who requires a lot of resupply to neutralize and destroy the emplacements, or you can take the engineer who can easily destroy things.

But an engineer is a stationary type of class. He is all about setting up bases, destroying bases, and setting up mines. He isn't great for a regular infantry squad that is always on the move, which is why the breacher is almost always taken instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
IDK about removing the ability to destroy Caches from the Breacher kit, but giving more players the ability to use one of the least popular kits could actually result in dedicated engineers. I don't think taking 1 extra player from the frontline is such a huge deal, most of the time you end up with squads aimlessly roaming the map anyways.

I gave up on ambushing with Engineer Kits ages ago, it used to be something I loved (especially on Kokan), but the time taken to set a proper ambush if frustrating. Even more frustrating is the logistics required to place a single row of mines across a road. I have never set a real minefield, nor would I claim to know anything concerning CEs, but wouldn't it be nice to have the capabilities to set an effective ambush without need logistic vehicles to ferry munitions?
This is mainly why I suggest this idea. It takes the entire round to set up a proper minefield. The great thing about setting up mine fields, would make vehicle drivers think twice that they can easily cruise wherever the hell they want around their side of the map without much danger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-CON]rPoXoTauJIo View Post
Would it make sense for gameplay reasons if mines damage would be decreased, but overall count of them heavily increased in engineer kit? Like takes 5 of them to kill tank, and kit would have 8, so engineer would have choice between explosive power and large coverage area.
What about decreasing mine laying time? I think the destructive power is great, but since they are so easy to spot, it balances out that advantage already.
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Last edited by Cavazos; 2017-01-24 at 23:40..
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Old 2017-01-26, 01:56   #26
Murphy

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Default Re: Raise squad max of engineers to 2 instead of 1

I kind of disagree with nerfing mine damage. If they don't knock vehicles out in one hit they cannot be used as area denial, which is the best used of mines. When I place mines it's not that I'm doing it to trick an enemy vehicle into hitting one so much as forcing him to stop/move into kill zone (mine the road, place the IED just a bit off to the side so the vehicle doesn't notice it first and let the lawls ensue).

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Old 2017-01-26, 05:05   #27
[R-DEV]​rPoXoTauJIo
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: Raise squad max of engineers to 2 instead of 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontliner View Post
Not really. Mines are only really effective on chokepoints close to the enemy main, so when a tank sets off one of them all he has to do is to return back to main, repair for 20 seconds, he can then decide to take a different route or drive over the now clear area. Maybe he hits another mine but then it's just rinse and repeat.
Time, time, time, isn't it's all about time in game?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frontliner View Post
So unless you want players to stack them up on top of each other more or less(which would then completely neutralize receiving more of them) you'll only be a minor inconvenience with them for the most part.
Yeah, that's exactly what i'm suggested - player has either choice for slow down entire area, or has to be lucky with placing multiple mines in one place where vehicle drive by.

assetruler69: I've seen things you smurfs wouldn't believe. Apaches on the Kashan. I watched burned down tank hulls after the launch of the single TOW. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Time to give up and respawn.
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Old 2017-01-26, 06:41   #28
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: Raise squad max of engineers to 2 instead of 1

Time's of course an aspect, but I prefer a kill over a delay. People reacting with "Shit, mines" instead of "meh, just a mine" is more preferable to me. Besides, I'm still in favour of having 2 types.


You know, when thinking about all of this, how about a deployable minefield(left click for a row, right click for a circular one)? Instead of arguing how many mines a single engineer should have, we instead utilize our trusted SL deployment system. This way we can deny an area effectively while making the process a bit more streamlined. Of course taking an engineer to fill the gaps and to deploy this stuff faster is also possible.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
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Old 2017-01-26, 15:25   #29
Nightingale

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Default Re: Raise squad max of engineers to 2 instead of 1

I'm one of those solo assholes who always takes an engineer kit and then does a solo minefield for the first 30 minutes of the round.

I think it would lead to some pretty annoying results if the game allowed 2 players from the same squad to request the engineer kit at the same time. What would happen is this: Whenever a squad needs one engineer, they will just say "hey let's get the other one! just because we can! we'll be twice as effective!" and then the rest of the team will be unable to use the other engineer kit when it is needed.

If you need to lay mines super fast, bring a rifleman buddy with you. 1 ammo bag = 1 mine.

And if your squad really needs to deploy two minefields simultaneously in different parts of the map (I've never seen a team have enough co-ordination to manage the logistics to accomplish this) then go get the other engineer kit from a different squad.

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Old 2017-01-28, 07:09   #30
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: Raise squad max of engineers to 2 instead of 1

I just want to be able to effectively deny small areas to the enemy armor with mines, without the placement taking half of the round.
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