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Old 2017-05-18, 20:59   #1
Vista
Default Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System

Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System



Hello everyone,


After the controversial update to the Ballistics and Weapon Damage in general, and due to the overall dissatisfaction from a substancial portion of the community in regards to the update, I've decided to take matters into my own hands and release a ballistics update myself.


Now, to understand what I changed, it's important to be in the loop about the past weapon damage balance and 'meta'. In the previous versions, fast firing rifles (like the Dutch, Canadian and French standard issue rifles) had an undeniable advantage in most engagements, especially in CQB encounters. Why?

Due to PR's gameplay nature, most engagements are going to be close-by-ish. I'd say no more than 250M. Majority of them you can call it 'CQB' - this due to the lack of scopes on some maps (lack of binoculars aswell) and the high recoil of some weapons. It's obviously better to get as close as you can before engaging the enemy. The problem is that the aformentioned rifles shine in these situations - they all have high RPM and a decent-ish ammount of base damage, this deadly combo when put against the low RPM rifles (like the AK-74) is very successful. The low RPM rifles just aren't really able to comepete at times, this is reinforced by the fact that the engine's hit detection is trash - while the AK-74 shoots 4 rounds and maybe 2 are hits (high recoil also doesn't help), the C8 just vomits 17 rounds in the same time, ensuring the kill.



So, how do you balance this? I did it in 3 different ways. The first, is through base damage. The majority of the fast firing 'NATO' factions' weapons saw a reduction in their base damage, while at the same time the glorious motherland weapons saw their base damage (slightly) increased. Secondly, I introduced a harsher damage droppoff on the NATO rifles, 7.62 rifles also had their damage droppoff increased, but not nearly as much as the NATO rifles - this way while the NATO rifles are still good at CQB, glorious motherland will be all up in that medium range buisness.

Finally, I re-enabled the 'backOnRecoil' setting on everything again. This was a setting that was enabled before 1.0 was released, which punished spraying by the fast RPM rifles. M42_Zwilling explained the technicalities, but TLDR it makes the fast firing rifles' base recoil a bit higher.

I also changed the damage modifier against non-armored targets. Reduced it to make INS maps a bit more fair, this way OpFor has a bit more survivability.

I also gave an individual buff to the british L85A2, it's supposed to use the NATO 5.56x45 round, but since that weapon's recoil is shitty and the RPM isn't all that great, I gave it the same round as the chinese QBZ-95, this way the L85A2 won't be as shitty and will have a bit more damage.

Also remember these changes are based on the PREVIOUS damage model, NOT Zwilling's 1.4.8 changes.


VERSION 2.5


Changed Bullet properties

Weapons affected: FAMAS, C8, C7, TAR-21

Before:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 556_45_r (and all its variants)
ObjectTemplate.material 3556
ObjectTemplate.damage 39
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModmifier 0.3
include projectiles_comon.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_r.tweak 5
After:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 556_45_r (and all its variants)
ObjectTemplate.material 3556
ObjectTemplate.damage 34
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModmifier 0.3
include projectiles_comon.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_r.tweak 5
Weapons affected: QBZ-95

Before:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 580_42_g 
ObjectTemplate.material 3556
ObjectTemplate.damage 39
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_g.tweak 5
After:
******NO CHANGE********
Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 580_42_g
ObjectTemplate.material 3556
ObjectTemplate.damage 39
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_g.tweak 5
Weapons affected: L85A2, G36, M16

Before:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 556_45_r
ObjectTemplate.material 3556
ObjectTemplate.damage 39
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_g.tweak 5
After:
Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 556_45_600
ObjectTemplate.material 3556
ObjectTemplate.damage 36
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_g.tweak 5
Decided to buff G36. 600RPM bullets added.

Weapons affected: G3, MG3, M14


Before:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 762_51_g
ObjectTemplate.material 3762
ObjectTemplate.damage 50
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_g.tweak 5
After:
***********NO CHANGE****************
Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 762_51_g
ObjectTemplate.material 3762
ObjectTemplate.damage 50
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_g.tweak 5
Weapons affected: AK-47, AKM


Before:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 762_39
ObjectTemplate.material 3762
ObjectTemplate.damage 45
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 200
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
After:
***************NO CHANGE****************
Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 762_39
ObjectTemplate.material 3762
ObjectTemplate.damage 45
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
Weapons affected: AK-74M, RPK-74M

Before:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 545_39_g
ObjectTemplate.material 3556
ObjectTemplate.damage 36
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_g.tweak 5
After:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 545_39_g
ObjectTemplate.material 3556
ObjectTemplate.damage 37
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_g.tweak 5
Slight buff.

Weapons affected: Simonov

Before:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 762_39_g
ObjectTemplate.material 3556
ObjectTemplate.damage 36
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_g.tweak 5
After:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.create GenericProjectile 762_39_semi
ObjectTemplate.material 3556
ObjectTemplate.damage 50
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.4
ObjectTemplate.DistToStartLoseDamage 400
ObjectTemplate.DistToMinDamage 1000
ObjectTemplate.gravityModifier 0.3
include projectiles_common.tweak
include projectiles_tracer_g.tweak 5
Made semi automatic version of 762x39. Massive buff to damage to make it 2 shot kill as a semi automatic weapon.




Changed multipliers

Before:

Code:
MaterialManager.createCell 3556 24 (Unarmored)
MaterialManager.damageMod 1.7
After:

Code:
MaterialManager.createCell 3556 24 (Unarmored)
MaterialManager.damageMod 1.4

Before:

Code:
MaterialManager.createCell 3762 24
MaterialManager.damageMod 1.7
MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate 0 e_bhit_s_sold_limb
MaterialManager.setDecalTemplate 0 decal_l_blood
MaterialManager.setSoundTemplate 0 S_Impact_Flesh
After:

Code:
MaterialManager.createCell 3762 24
MaterialManager.damageMod 1.4
MaterialManager.setEffectTemplate 0 e_bhit_s_sold_limb
MaterialManager.setDecalTemplate 0 decal_l_blood
MaterialManager.setSoundTemplate 0 S_Impact_Flesh

Changed recoil property

Before:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.recoil.goBackOnRecoil 0
After:

Code:
ObjectTemplate.recoil.goBackOnRecoil 1

I know this might not be perfect, but it makes sense from a gameplay standpoint, and IMO it's better than Zwilling's changes.

I know some of you are like 'B-B-B-BUT VISTA MUH REALISM BROO', well PR is already a realistic game, but in the odd occasion when we have to chose between realism and gameplay, gameplay should suffice. This is a GAME that we PLAY afterall.

I also know that I didn't cover every weapon, and there's probably more stuff to balance, but if the DEVs implement these changes, I'll probably make more later on

If you've read this all the way, thanks for reading
Vista is offline
Last edited by Vista; 2017-05-26 at 12:22.. Reason: xD
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Old 2017-05-18, 21:03   #2
[R-DEV]​mectus11
PR:BF2 Developer

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Default Re: Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System

ha gayyyy




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Last edited by mectus11; 2020-02-01 at 15:15..
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Old 2017-05-18, 21:28   #3
[R-DEV]​Outlawz7
PR:BF2 Developer

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Default Re: Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System

Quote:
Also changed L85A2 to use QBZ-95's damage model
Uh why?

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Old 2017-05-18, 21:30   #4
Kingy

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Default Re: Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what was wrong with the old model. The only glaring issue in my view was the god-awful backup sights the Russians had to endure. Which, admittedly, isn't a problem concerning ballistics.
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Old 2017-05-18, 21:31   #5
Vista
Default Re: Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Outlawz7 View Post
Uh why?
Quote:
I also gave an individual buff to the british L85A2, it's supposed to use the NATO 5.56x45 round, but since that weapon's recoil is shitty and the RPM isn't all that great, I gave it the same round as the chinese QBZ-95, this way the L85A2 won't be as shitty and will have a bit more damage.
It's in the post
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Old 2017-05-18, 21:33   #6
Kingy

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Default Re: Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System

I always thought the L85 was pretty good, especially with those juicy backup sights.
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Old 2017-05-18, 21:59   #7
Allahu Akbar

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Default Re: Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System

This is even worse.

If automatic mode cut off recoil animation then you should tweak the recoil, not the damage.

What is wrong with the current system is that a lot of it simply didn't make sense(wrong calculation on 7.62x39 kinetic energy beyond 200m, for example, resulted in 5.56 doing MORE damage than it) and the fact that it does not account for flesh damage(generally represented by temporary/permanent cavity) - only kinetic energy.

L85 is actually great because of the back up red dot.
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Last edited by Allahu Akbar; 2017-05-18 at 22:26..
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Old 2017-05-18, 22:03   #8
Vista
Default Re: Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allahu Akbar View Post
This is even worse.

If automatic mode cut off recoil animation then recoil animation for 900rpm weapons should be made "sharper"(takes less time).

L85 is actually great because of the back up red dot.
No, it's not worse. And it doesn't make it 'sharper', it simply makes recoil more noticeable.
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Old 2017-05-18, 22:27   #9
Allahu Akbar

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Default Re: Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vista View Post
No, it's not worse. And it doesn't make it 'sharper', it simply makes recoil more noticeable.
It's worse because you are also doing it wrong, just going the other direction. (magical L85 damage buff, for example; even BF4 didn't magically buff lower-rpm but same round weapons but instead gave them better handling/accuracy)

You intended to move away from realism for gameplay balance while Zwilling intended to move toward realism but fucked up both gameplay AND realism.
With proper modifiers for flesh damage and damage drop range tweaked to better fit real (or calculated) data, Zwilling's system can be fixed to improve both gameplay AND realism, but your system simply has nothing to do with realism anymore.
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Old 2017-05-18, 22:37   #10
Vista
Default Re: Vista's Improved Balance and Ballistics System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allahu Akbar View Post
It's worse because you are also doing it wrong, just going the other direction. (magical L85 damage buff, for example; even BF4 didn't magically buff lower-rpm but same round weapons but instead gave them better handling/accuracy)

You intended to move away from realism for gameplay balance while Zwilling intended to move toward realism but fucked up both gameplay AND realism.
Balancing weapons is not something that's new to PR, how are you supposed to portray recoil? Is there some study some PhD Physician did that you want to use as a reference?

I remember that in 0.973 or something they reduced the AK-74's recoil because it was even worse than it is now.

Plus I know that giving the L85 a different ammo type isn't 'realistic' but it was likely one of the 'few' things I could've done to give it a buff. Stuff like changing the recoil animations etc is a bit of out my skill league.

Also you're making it seem like giving the L85 a buff is the same thing as giving everyone the ability to 360 quickscope around the map - it's a needed compromise to make the game more enjoyable.

But if you still think this is shit (which I heavily disagree) call it a lesser of 2 evils. I stated and honestly know that these changes aren't perfect, but I think they sure as hell beat Zwilling's.

I grabbed the previous damage model and changed what I felt needed to change. In a nuttshell, nerf high RPM rifles and buff low RPM ones. Take dovre for example.
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