project reality header
Go Back   Project Reality Forums > PR:BF2 Mod Forums > PR:BF2 Feedback > Infantry
02 Jun 2020, 00:00:00 (PRT)
Register Developer Blogs Project Reality Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 2020-05-02, 12:25   #1
axytho
Supporting Member
Default Reduce the magazines on the AR

On multiple forums it has now been mentioned that the AR and machine gun in general is a very desirable kit to have (as are other weapons with bipods of course).

This is of course realistic. AR's are the main tools of a squad to kill opposing squads. However, right now there is no in-game reason to use anything but AR's, other than a hard-limit on the number of AR's in a squad, a limit that players have tried getting around by various methods.

The correct way to solve the problem seems to be to approach the problem from the following standpoint: Why doesn't every soldier get an AR? Well simply because they cannot carry the ammunition by themselves (and it would be expensive, but that's not a problem in a conventional army).

Therefore I suggest that for belt-fed medium machine guns the ammunition is reduced to the amount that is historically or realistically accurate.

For the Wehrmacht, that would be the following: (https://www.battleorder.org/1944-schutzenkompanie)

"Each rifle squad had 1,150 rounds of ammunition for its machine gun. The machine gunner carried a 50-round belt drum loaded for quick reaction to contact. The assistant machine gunner carried 4 additional 50-round belt drums as the first-line ammo load and a 300-round ammo box. Two additional 300-round ammo boxes were carried by the riflemen. Before 1943, these 2 boxes would have been carried by an ammunition bearer (a third member for the LMG Team). Unlike in the U.S. Army and British Army, there were no special pouches or bags for carrying ammo for squad-level auomatic weapons or machine gun belts. Thus, the ammo boxes would be carried by hand."

For the BAR: https://www.battleorder.org/post/us-ammo-load-ww2

"In the Army, the BAR gunner typically carried 10 magazines in an M1937 cartridge belt and 1 magazine in the gun. Each cartridge belt had 6 pockets that could each carry 2 magazines, although one would be used to carry a leather tool pouch. The assistant gunner and ammo bearer were also issued an M1937 cartridge belt and could each carry 12 magazines (a total of 35 magazines of 700 rounds). However, mags were likely distributed amongst the riflemen as well as a fully loaded BAR magazine belt weighed 20.2 lb. Generally speaking, until late 1944, the assistant gunner and ammo bearer would have carried the BAR magazines in the M1937 cartridge belt and their rifle ammunition (and other gear) in 2 M1 general purpose carrying bags. After Operation Overlord in mid-1944, the M1937 cartridge belts for the assistant and ammo bearer were deleted. They would then be issued M1923 cartridge belts"




So in other words:

Make the german MG42 not have a single piece of ammunition to reload, same for the browning 1919. (Unless that means it's no longer possible to reload, in which case give him one).

For the BAR and presumably the FG42, the current amount is fine. (to my surprise, but I only started looking things up when I wrote this)
axytho is offline
Last edited by axytho; 2020-05-02 at 12:36..
Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-06, 16:56   #2
CptHrki
Default Re: Reduce the magazines on the AR

How would this be implemented? According to your research, the German machine gunner had 1150 rounds at his disposal distributed among 3 other soldiers.

Firstly, no squad will ever sacrifice useful kits to have 2 or 3 riflemen ready to resupply the machine gunner at all times.

Secondly, if you gave the machine gunner 1 drum max., I wouldn't even play the kit again, no way I'd be running around for ammo every 5 seconds of firing (or be completely screwed the moment I'm detached from a rifleman). Moreover, you could just rearm at a crate every time which totally defeats the historical purpose of this system.

Thirdly, if you wanted to implement this in a slightly less infuriating way (by not forcing everyone to reload every 5 seconds), you'd have to give all machinegunners both 50 round drums and 300 round boxes, which I'm pretty sure is impossible since you can only use one reload animation for any gun.

Imo the MG42 is fine since the hipfire is next to useless and you can only bipod ADS and wait for ages to fire accurately. In other words, you're practically a bunker and need a safe, stationary position to be effective, which has it's obvious counterplays.
CptHrki is offline Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-07, 11:36   #3
axytho
Supporting Member
Default Re: Reduce the magazines on the AR

Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHrki View Post
How would this be implemented? According to your research, the German machine gunner had 1150 rounds at his disposal distributed among 3 other soldiers.

Firstly, no squad will ever sacrifice useful kits to have 2 or 3 riflemen ready to resupply the machine gunner at all times.

Secondly, if you gave the machine gunner 1 drum max., I wouldn't even play the kit again, no way I'd be running around for ammo every 5 seconds of firing (or be completely screwed the moment I'm detached from a rifleman). Moreover, you could just rearm at a crate every time which totally defeats the historical purpose of this system.

Thirdly, if you wanted to implement this in a slightly less infuriating way (by not forcing everyone to reload every 5 seconds), you'd have to give all machinegunners both 50 round drums and 300 round boxes, which I'm pretty sure is impossible since you can only use one reload animation for any gun.

Imo the MG42 is fine since the hipfire is next to useless and you can only bipod ADS and wait for ages to fire accurately. In other words, you're practically a bunker and need a safe, stationary position to be effective, which has it's obvious counterplays.
Yeah, you're right, forget I made the thread, it's already balanced. (I made it because I thought the MG would be overpowered in comparison with all the bolt-actions, but I was wrong.)
axytho is offline Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-09, 05:18   #4
UncleSmek

UncleSmek's Avatar
Default Re: Reduce the magazines on the AR

This is a bad idea. As far as "small" magazines go, the STD blufor AR magazine size is just fine as it is and they are even too small at times.
UncleSmek is offline Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-22, 20:55   #5
Killer2354

Killer2354's Avatar
Default Re: Reduce the magazines on the AR

Oh, this is for WW2. Ignore this
Killer2354 is offline Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-23, 18:25   #6
WingWalker
Default Re: Reduce the magazines on the AR

Quote:
Originally Posted by axytho View Post
Yeah, you're right, forget I made the thread
I think you are over emphasizing the importance of the AR kit, and making a mountain out of a mole hill.

W.W.
WingWalker is offline Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-24, 19:07   #7
SemlerPDX
PR Server License Administrator

SemlerPDX's Avatar
Default Re: Reduce the magazines on the AR

Micromanaging like this would be more appropriate in games like Arma, and such things are part of what slow down the pace and increase the engagement ranges, and effect movement speed of a squad... definitely have ammo bearers in that game, depending on the mode, irrespective of a persons current kit given the unrestricted choice of loadout combinations. Weight slows you down, and it all feels appropriate for the game.

But PR is like the best of both worlds, bridging FPS with Mil-Sim somewhere in the middle. Gotta take those things into account, with a mind of how it's played and how to keep it playable.

SemlerPDX is offline
Last edited by SemlerPDX; 2020-05-24 at 19:14..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 17:06.