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Old 2020-04-14, 04:06   #11
BigBigMonkeyMan

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Default Re: 2km maps feedback

Yeah I don't normally play assets, and never base my vote for a map on trying to get access to any vehicles, so I usually prefer 2km maps because the outcome of the game is not hinged on the performance of vehicle squads but rather the competency of inf squads and squad leaders closely cooperating. A great CAS squad or tank squad on Khami, Kashan, or OP Thunder can save a poorly coordinated team. I am all for teams and squad leaders that don't work together being punished with a loss because team communication is something that makes this game great and should be encouraged.

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Old 2020-04-14, 20:10   #12
InfantryGamer42
Default Re: 2km maps feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
Most servers dont allow to shoot into Dod or rush the first flag in the beginning.
I am not talking about that. I am talking about that one guy that will spend all game placing mines on every exit out of enemy main, or take HAT kit to kill enemy tank after that tank leaves main. Pretty much Beirut in nutshell, but this is constantly practiced tactic on most 2km maps because of main design offer and even support this tactic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
maps being noob friendly is the funniest thing ive read the last months.
I would take that you just do not understand my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
INF has 5min to deploy on a position and another 5min to be able to do something on 4km maps.
Do not agree whit this at all, at least for most 4km maps, whit maybe Kashan being close to your story. I do not have any issue to deploy on a position in 5 minute of the game or in the 55 minute of the game, specially when you count in information about enemy position that my team knows. If you do not, then there is no right for someone to be mad about getting ambushed on battelfield.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
After that you mostly have APC/IFVs overwatching your location.
Maybe only on Kashan, other maps are separate story for themselves. While I can agree that APC/IFVs are probably best assets on 4km maps if you know how to use them, 4km maps compared to 2km give enough assets to effectively counter them in all shapes and forms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
10 min later some tanks you most likely cant kill will frag you.
Again, really simplistic way of looking at tank and asset gameplay in general. On 4km maps tank cant just sit on one spot for long time and frag you whitout you or your team trying to counter him. And that is where all problems start on 4km maps because it is not rear for team not to use assets at there disposal to full potential. 4 km maps give your team assets (ATGM, HAT, engineer, IFV, ATV, CAS, tank) to counter that tank, compared to most 2km maps where tank squads pretty much needs to kill that enemy tank and it it free to do what ever they want, as long as they take extra care of enemy HAT and mines around there main. There is reason why best tank maps are 2km maps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
Once your asset squads lose the fight its rape time because the enemy assets wont play save anymore, they will push any tow location, they will drive next to your squad trying to hide.
And how often happens that your team loses everything whiteout at least causing some loses to enemy? This days pretty much never as most servers now actually balance teams properly. Yes, sometimes one team gets stacked whit better players, but even then it is not like all enemy assets survive fight.

[QUOTE=transpilot;2200675]Have you ever tried to flank with your INF squad on Bijar, Kashan, Kami, Silent? Doenst work because you have to cross several 100m on open ground.

Yes, did it many times successfully either on foot or by taking light vehicles whit logi to build two FOBs behind enemy lines or by taking trans choper on risky flank. Did they all worked. Of course not, but it is not like I am as squad leader forced to hold one spot without ability to move.

Khami for instance is great map for pulling flanks in light vehicles and build FOBs behind enemy flag to attack it from different direction, but flanks on foot are not impossible if you do them right.
Problem of Bijar and Silent is that they lack enough light vehicles that would increase mobility of the infantry on those maps.
Kashan on other hand is not map for flanking, but not because of assets, but because of the map design that supports super FOB building and forward pushing. It is not impossible, but you really need to have great team that shares any info that they have to pull it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
learn2play INF combat and you will enjoy 2km maps
Yeah, because it is easier to "learn2play" broken 2km maps that nobody plays because they heave clear issues instead of fixing them. Nice mate, whit advice like that we can only keep playing same 15 maps and pointing fingers at asset whores, servers, admins, DEVs or who else people want to blame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBigMonkeyMan View Post
Yeah I don't normally play assets, and never base my vote for a map on trying to get access to any vehicles, so I usually prefer 2km maps because the outcome of the game is not hinged on the performance of vehicle squads but rather the competency of inf squads and squad leaders closely cooperating.
You see effectiveness of same infantry squad if you put it on 2km and 4km maps is pretty much same. There effectiveness is directly connected to there competency, not to the size of the map, or if I put it different way, there ability to use assets and resources (crates) that are given to them by there faction on different map. If squad leader knows importance of FOBs in the game, knows how to effectively use logistic trucks and trans chopers, has solid map knowledge, knows how to lead one squad he and his squad will perform same on what ever map you put which ever size.

What actually effects performance of INF squads and there team in general is teambalance (which is server based issue on which game cant do match), amount of assets and resources on map and specifically to 2km maps, main exits design. And these are big issues of 2km maps. Poor teambalance leads to bad squad leaders in general. Bigger amount of assets and resources actually gives better balance overall if done right, as you give your squad leaders more options how to play map in that match and more ways to counter enemy assets. Many 2km maps have bad asset and resource balance, leading to not great gameplay. Bad main exits design is self explained.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
A great CAS squad or tank squad on Khami, Kashan, or OP Thunder can save a poorly coordinated team.
Believe me they can not. You team pretty much always has ability to counter CAS or tank squad. Different thing is if your team does not use assets given effectively. Even If bad team has great CAS squad or tank squad, you still need at least one good infantry squad to even try to carry your team. Without that one good infantry squad, you are pretty much useless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
I am all for teams and squad leaders that don't work together being punished with a loss because team communication is something that makes this game great and should be encouraged.
Yes, that is all good and teams should be punished for not communicating. But problem of most 2km maps is that if you do not play right way whit your assets on map you will lose, effectively being punished by map design.
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Old 2020-04-15, 11:03   #13
transpilot
Default Re: 2km maps feedback

It doesnt make sense to discuss with simple people but Ill give it 1 more try.

Having played this game for a decade public, tournaments, events, scrims,..... I can tell you as one of the few proper INF SLs that I avoid playing INF on most 4km maps and open assets squads.

On 2km maps you also have asset layouts but you are facing 1-2 heavy assets. Since your teams also has some you can always avoid them. Most 2km maps have also much better terrain for INF (forests, cities, hill formations)

On 4km maps you mostly have 1-3 big compounds where all the INF squads fight surrounded by hills with open area all around. Furthermore you have 5-10 heavy assets spread around the map that will easily spot and shoot any transport asset. FOBs getting long range camped and so on.

I have never heard any other proper INF player saying: 4km maps are so much better to play INF.

And yes a very skilled asset squad can carry a team.
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Old 2020-04-15, 12:00   #14
Rabbit

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Default Re: 2km maps feedback

I simply think the thing we should focus on is that a lot of main bases suck in 2km maps and need addressing.



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Old 2020-04-18, 17:20   #15
InfantryGamer42
Default Re: 2km maps feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
It doesnt make sense to discuss with simple people but Ill give it 1 more try.
LoL. What does not make sense is to discuss whit guy that does not understand point of this thread. This is not one more thread about 2km vs 4km maps and which is better. This is thread about 2km, how to fix issues they clearly have and improve them, so they appeal to
larger player base, because it is clear from how people vote during map votes, they prefer to play same 2km maps, when 4km does not win vote, again not counting INS maps that are separate story for themselves. But you are constantly pushing into other way, because apparently to you, all 2km maps are greatest thing PR offers and that playerbase is just bunch of noobs that are not able to acknowledge there greatest and they just want to play same well known maps because noobs... No, I shared similar opinion for long time, but I shake it off as it is deeply wrong. Reason 2km maps are not played as they should is result of main design and not proper asset balance, which result in much worse gameplay that 2km maps support. And they all have great potential, but they need main redesigns and new asset balance to make them appealing again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
Having played this game for a decade public, tournaments, events, scrims,..... I can tell you as one of the few proper INF SLs that I avoid playing INF on most 4km maps and open assets squads.
Your loss. Not my problem that it is hard for you to play as infantry on 4km because of some issue that great squad leader as you claim should be able to deal whit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
On 2km maps you also have asset layouts but you are facing 1-2 heavy assets.
And that is why pretty much all 2km maps are best tank maps we have in game. Because you just need to kill tank, preferably by camping enemy main whit HAT or combat engineer whit mines and you can put your brain on autopilot farming infantry around map whit no counters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
Since your teams also has some you can always avoid them.
Only way to avoid tank on 2km map is to destroy it. And 2km do not offer enough assets to do that, except camping enemy main.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
Most 2km maps have also much better terrain for INF (forests, cities, hill formations)

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
Most 2km maps have also much better terrain for INF (forests, cities, hill formations)
Can not agree whit that. Map design is same, only difference is distance that you need to go from A to B flag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
On 4km maps you mostly have 1-3 big compounds where all the INF squads fight surrounded by hills with open area all around.
And you are still pushing same desert 4km maps, like we do not have other 4km maps, that are really good for all parties. And even on those "3 compound maps" you can still pull flank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
Furthermore you have 5-10 heavy assets spread around the map that will easily spot and shoot any transport asset.
You are talking like two completely different games are playing in same time on same map, when both INF and assets are playing for objectives, and they will concentrate around two active flags. And If you have good information about enemy positions and good plan you will be able to flank enemy whit trans, jeep or any other vehicle that can hold passengers. But If you do not have good information, I do not see what is problem in getting ambushed, as long as it is not in front or near main.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
FOBs getting long range camped and so on.
So when enemy MG gunner is long range camping FOB that is good, but when asset is doing that that is bad? Nice double standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
I have never heard any other proper INF player saying: 4km maps are so much better to play INF.
And I am not claiming that. I am claiming that 4km maps offer better and more balanced gameplay for all roles that PR supports, as long as we suppose that we are talking about two balanced teams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by transpilot View Post
And yes a very skilled asset squad can carry a team.
Only if enemy team is heavily unbalanced in favor of friendly team. If we have two balanced teams ability of asset squad to carry is much smaller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
I simply think the thing we should focus on is that a lot of main bases suck in 2km maps and need addressing.
I do not think that is only issue whit them. Some 2km maps need some changes in asset balance.
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Old 2020-04-18, 21:58   #16
transpilot
Default Re: 2km maps feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by InfantryGamer42 View Post
LoL. What does not make sense is to discuss whit guy that does not understand point of this thread. This is not one more thread about 2km vs 4km maps and which is better. This is thread about 2km, how to fix issues they clearly have and improve them, so they appeal to
larger player base, because it is clear from how people vote during map votes, they prefer to play same 2km maps, when 4km does not win vote, again not counting INS maps that are separate story for themselves. But you are constantly pushing into other way, because apparently to you, all 2km maps are greatest thing PR offers and that playerbase is just bunch of noobs that are not able to acknowledge there greatest and they just want to play same well known maps because noobs... No, I shared similar opinion for long time, but I shake it off as it is deeply wrong. Reason 2km maps are not played as they should is result of main design and not proper asset balance, which result in much worse gameplay that 2km maps support. And they all have great potential, but they need main redesigns and new asset balance to make them appealing again.



Your loss. Not my problem that it is hard for you to play as infantry on 4km because of some issue that great squad leader as you claim should be able to deal whit.



And that is why pretty much all 2km maps are best tank maps we have in game. Because you just need to kill tank, preferably by camping enemy main whit HAT or combat engineer whit mines and you can put your brain on autopilot farming infantry around map whit no counters.



Only way to avoid tank on 2km map is to destroy it. And 2km do not offer enough assets to do that, except camping enemy main.






Can not agree whit that. Map design is same, only difference is distance that you need to go from A to B flag.



And you are still pushing same desert 4km maps, like we do not have other 4km maps, that are really good for all parties. And even on those "3 compound maps" you can still pull flank.



You are talking like two completely different games are playing in same time on same map, when both INF and assets are playing for objectives, and they will concentrate around two active flags. And If you have good information about enemy positions and good plan you will be able to flank enemy whit trans, jeep or any other vehicle that can hold passengers. But If you do not have good information, I do not see what is problem in getting ambushed, as long as it is not in front or near main.



So when enemy MG gunner is long range camping FOB that is good, but when asset is doing that that is bad? Nice double standards.



And I am not claiming that. I am claiming that 4km maps offer better and more balanced gameplay for all roles that PR supports, as long as we suppose that we are talking about two balanced teams.



Only if enemy team is heavily unbalanced in favor of friendly team. If we have two balanced teams ability of asset squad to carry is much smaller.



I do not think that is only issue whit them. Some 2km maps need some changes in asset balance.
ok bratan
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