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Old 2019-06-24, 09:40   #1
DogACTUAL

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Default helicopter atgms splash

Is there any reason why helicopter ATGMs only have a 5 meter splash radius? Doesn't seem very realistic.

Not only did the DEVs totally throw off the CAS/AA balance and make TOWs useless against tanks, no that was not enough. They also had to introduce their most controversial change yet, a 16 character limit on player names.
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''Mats literally does not give a single fuck what you, me or everybody else thinks the game should be like. He doesn't care if you, me or everybody else plays the game even.'' - Frontliner
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Old 2019-06-24, 10:33   #2
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: helicopter atgms splash

Because Anti-Armour warheads focus their explosive charge via a shaped cone into a jet. If they wouldn't do that, their penetration power would suffer tremendously.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
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Old 2019-06-24, 14:51   #3
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: helicopter atgms splash

Please tell me how to completely focus the force of a highly brisant explosive compound that detonates at 8.000-10.000 m/s velocity into a narrow path without any of the gases violently expanding in all directions. Would be really useful for developing guns that can use actual high explosives as a propellant charge, whatever material can withstand such a force to focus a detonation like this must be some real shit.

Now without sarcasm, i understand it is possible to somewhat focus part of the gases of a detonation in a preffered direction though 'plugging' (you can fell trees easier by duct taping a charge to a tree and then duct taping plastic bags filled with water over it), but you will still have a most of the force expand everywhere, this is not gunpowder that is reigned in easily.

The high explosives used to propel the liner to generate the copper/aluminum(/whatever else metal) high velocity jet need to be of the highest brisance and detonation velocity possible to get the metal jet to effective speeds for maximum pen effectiveness. But with compounds such as these there is no way to contain their detonation to only one direction like with gunpowder or some low explosives, especially on a missile where lower weight is a desireable characteristic. So not really much material to plug the explosive in, mostly it is just the 'shaping' of the shaped charge which is optimised to put as much force as possible into the liner itself, but again, impossible to significantly constrain the detonation just into one direction.

If you don't believe me just watch this and trust your own eyes:



Yeah, don't really get the impression that 5m is anywhere close to a safe standoff distance with these. That overpressure to the sides looks quite serious.

Not only did the DEVs totally throw off the CAS/AA balance and make TOWs useless against tanks, no that was not enough. They also had to introduce their most controversial change yet, a 16 character limit on player names.
------------------
''Mats literally does not give a single fuck what you, me or everybody else thinks the game should be like. He doesn't care if you, me or everybody else plays the game even.'' - Frontliner
DogACTUAL is offline
Last edited by DogACTUAL; 2019-06-24 at 15:00..
Old 2019-06-24, 17:33   #4
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: helicopter atgms splash

You know very well that - in the event that a certain thing isn't emulated 100% according to real life - the team has reasons why it is that way, be it balance, fun, gameplay or a combination of those three. It isn't so much that the team(or I) is(am) unaware of >insert thing that isn't emulated 100% according to real life<, but we're looking at the bigger picture, we always have, it's been our MO for over a decade.
I would argue the sooner you realize that we don't really care about making things 100% according real life if it can be reasonably assumed that it would mean huge game play concerns the sooner we could actually have productive exchanges with you.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
Frontliner is offline
Old 2019-06-24, 18:28   #5
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: helicopter atgms splash

Well, then why did you not just come out and give that reason, instead of pretending initially that the reason for the low splash radius is based on realism instead of gameplay balance? This is precisely the dishonest and bad faith exchange that me and some friends of mine came to dislike about your 'team'.

To be honest, i was just confused, generally (at least as far as i can tell as a keyboard warrior) the splash radii of all other explosive weapons like missiles/shells/bombs/grenades/mines/rockets seem to be portrayed reasonably realistic (as far as you can simulate fragmentation and overpressure in this engine) in PR, some values are a bit on the lower end of what seems authentic but it can still be considered 'plausible'.

The helicopter missiles are really the only explosive weapon in the game that has a ridiculously small splash radius for what it is, so i was just curious what the reason was. Well, my opinion is, that increasing splash radius of the missiles to 10m would be a good compromise between realism and gameplay and would not be 'OP', what do you think?

Not only did the DEVs totally throw off the CAS/AA balance and make TOWs useless against tanks, no that was not enough. They also had to introduce their most controversial change yet, a 16 character limit on player names.
------------------
''Mats literally does not give a single fuck what you, me or everybody else thinks the game should be like. He doesn't care if you, me or everybody else plays the game even.'' - Frontliner
DogACTUAL is offline
Old 2019-06-24, 18:53   #6
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: helicopter atgms splash

Quote:
Originally Posted by DogACTUAL View Post
Well, then why did you not just come out and give that reason, instead of pretending initially that the reason for the low splash radius is based on realism instead of gameplay balance?
Ok, so the missile in your own video is barely able to engulf a tank in flames(r = about 3ms, not even 5m, and not remotely 10ms) and even with the slowed down pictures I couldn't spot large amounts of debris pieces flying of which I would expect be enough to seriously injure a man standing 10m or more away - incidentally all I see was mostly dust and grass, giving much more credence to what I was saying about shaped charges having low amounts of splash. In addition to that, you're not seeing dust plumes from accelerated debris coming up around the impact site, so pardon me for asking this but where exactly does this kill a man*? Now, depending on where and what you hit you may get different results(e.g. rocky ground) but for all intends and purposes your example confirms at large what I was saying earlier and completely debunks your own case right there.

*I know that standing next to a shockwave nor fire is particularly great but none of that looks to be able to flat-out kill a man. Air pressure rapidly loses it's ability to harm a human with range and the fireball is extremely short lived, too.

Quote:
This is precisely the dishonest and bad faith exchange that me and some friends of mine came to dislike about your 'team'.
I would imagine that most people on the forums know what kind of guy I am and dishonesty is not a strong suit of mine at all, neither on the internets not IRL. None of us are in any way, shape or form obligated to give you the responses you want to hear, and particularly not if your chain of reason is obliterated by your own "proof".

I guess this settles your question then, if somebody would be so kind to lock that'd be pretty.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
Frontliner is offline
Old 2019-06-24, 19:08   #7
DogACTUAL

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Default Re: helicopter atgms splash

Ever heard of overpressure? The pressure wave doesn't stop at the edge of the 'fireball', it destroys the lung tissue of anyone standing too close. If you want i can PM you some videos of SAA getting fucked up by TOWs (helicopter ATGMs have even bigger warheads), which should provide ample evidence of their concussive abilities.

Quote:
None of us are in any way, shape or form obligated to give you the responses you want to hear
Thanks, some DEVs make sure everyone notices that, even some green guys coming on the forums who just mean well and have simple questions get some passive aggressive one liner thrown their way every so often. It isn't really good optics though for people who like to consider themselves professionals.
Quote:
I couldn't spot large amounts of debris pieces flying of...particularly not if your chain of reason is obliterated by your own "proof".
This is you just seeing what you want to see so you can win another one of your internet arguments. There are clearly some fragments visible, but obviously this not being a dedicated fragmentation warhead, the primary effect on surrounding personell would be overpressure. Anyone with some common sense can see that standing anywhere within at least 8m (being very generous here) of that explosion would be fatal, but i guess you could walk it off lol.

All i know is i asked one of my murican internet aquaintances whose father is an AH-64 pilot and he confirmed that these missiles are way more devastating against personel than portrayed ingame. But i guess Mr. glorified LARPer with genius level IQ score has more experience with this, so of course in the end you are the one who will be right again either way.

Not only did the DEVs totally throw off the CAS/AA balance and make TOWs useless against tanks, no that was not enough. They also had to introduce their most controversial change yet, a 16 character limit on player names.
------------------
''Mats literally does not give a single fuck what you, me or everybody else thinks the game should be like. He doesn't care if you, me or everybody else plays the game even.'' - Frontliner
DogACTUAL is offline
Last edited by DogACTUAL; 2019-06-24 at 19:43..
Old 2019-06-24, 21:11   #8
Frontliner
Project Reality Beta Tester
Default Re: helicopter atgms splash

I'm tired of arguing with you if all you do is to belittle me when I'm presenting my thoughts on the matter and use it as an excuse to also throw shade at the other team members every now and again even though they have said nothing themselves. My thoughts are my own, I was replying to you not in an official capacity, but rather the way I think somebody, at some point decided Helo ATGMs should be like for reasons of A) Fun, B ) Gameplay and/or C) Balance.

You can disagree with that, that's fine, you can inquire about why it is that way too, of course and why wouldn't I be happy to answer? - but if your response to my attempts at breaking down the possible thought process of the one who did the coding is a mixture of name-calling and "u so stupid" I'm not going to let you run your mouth about me or the others for much longer, I can promise you that.

I'm asking for the thread to be locked now, and I would encourage you, once again and without taking the piss at you, to try and understand/consider the angle that the team approaching the game from before saying that >insert thing< isn't 100% true to reality.

VTRaptor: but i only stopped for less than 10 secs and that fucking awesome dude put 2 of them
]CIA[ SwampFox: well my definition of glitching is using an enemy kit to kill the enemy
Just_Dave: i have a list about PR players, and they r categorized by their skill
Para: You sir are an arse and not what the game or our community needs.
AlonTavor: Is that a German trying to make me concentrate?
Heavy Death: join PRTA instead - Teamwork is a must there.
Frontliner is offline
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