General Fitness Thread

[Kirra]

Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Twisted Helix

And about the supplements ... a recent and fairly (well by the government anyway) accepted study in the UK showed that the benefits of supplements in tablet form were inconclusive and no benefit could be proven. Fresh vegetables and fruit on the other hand were a whole different story, and results surprised the researchers. They really are good for you.

There is a huge thread over at bb.com where people have been discussing this for ages. So far, no body has come up with anything conclusive. Also, keep in mind that these government studies are generally directed at the general population and are often not applicable to people who engage in heavy resistance training and/or cardio.

Bill Starr has written about the benefits of taking vitamin supplements, at least from an athletic performance perspective.

[Rudd]

Originally Posted by Kirra

It's a non issue as dietary cholesterol doesn't significantly (if at all) raise your blood cholesterol. At least not in healthy people.
but that your cholesterol gets higher when heart disease is present.
Why do you think that pasta with sauces is healthier than pizza dough with a pizza sauce?
Saturated fat isn't bad for you either.

People stay healthy beacause they don't have huge intakes of cholesterol etc

Cholesterol is a steroid, and has functional groups that can contribute to atherosclerosis, i.e. it can associate with your blood vessels; its a chronic function rather than acute, I trust the chemistry of this subject since very few studies follow participants for long enough periods in to tell exactly what happens imo.

Saturated fat isn't bad for you either.

Actually saturated fat is a necessary component of your body is is INSTRUMENTAL in controlling the amount of cholesterol in attached to your blood vessels. However its not simple is saying 'meh, its all good' High density lipids and low density lipids are only now becoming more understood, all we know is that if you have too much of either, or too little of either then you increase the liklihood of cardiovascular accident.

I'm not saying cut it out, I'm saying moderate it.

I.e. I mentioned Pasta rather than Pizza, as you get your energy intake without the cheese.
Or use riccotta cheese etc to decrease the fat load. You just don't need that kind of fat intake, and if you eat that stuff ALOT you'll be putting a strain on the liver which won't like it at all (mostly due to inability to get rid of fat metabolic waste products fast enoug) and will be exacerbated by any acute excessive alcohol intake or other liver-orientated chemical intake.



Anything can be a remedy or a poison - it just depends on dosage


But your body at the end of the day, I'm just a guy on the internet atm; nursing school starts this month so I will be back far better armed in future :P

[Kirra]

Originally Posted by Zimmer

@Kirra I think its a double edge sword with saturated fat, the problem is that in western world our bodies are still built for hard work all the time, with our modern society alot of people sit on their asses all the day, that with a fat diet like the british isles are known for (fish and chips anyone? ). You get weight because of your energy rich food the heart has a harder time getting blood around in your body because of you added weight. The heart gets older faster and bam you have a possible heart failure on your doorstep. But then again the trigger is that your fat and not solely because of fatty diet, but as I said UK have a fatty diet and with the modern technology what you could eat for 100 years ago with no problem is now a problem.

Add smoking, drinking, trans fats and a generally shitty lifestyle to the mix and you'll have way more problems than just heart disease. I don't understand how people can live like that

[Twisted Helix]

Originally Posted by Kirra

I hate to derail the thread, but if those techniques are so great, how come they aren't used by boxers, kick boxers, MMA guys, muay thai fighers, etc?

Well it comes down to a simple thing. Combat knowledge is no good to you until it is body knowledge. Until it is written into your autonomic nervous system in the same way that the reaction to touching a hot plate will cause your hand to instantly withdraw without thinking ... well the secret of combat training is the same. You have to train it into body knowledge. Then you are able to have the speed necessary to land a punch as another person attacks. Because if both opponents are well trained, and capable of defense ... then you can waste a lot of energy trying to break an opening. It is a far more intelligent strategy to be able to let your opponent attack, and then if you have that body knowledge before you even know it, and thats the surprising part ... you often surprise yourself, you have clocked them.

So guys that want to train fast and win fights fast go to learn simple moves. And do them over and over and over until they are body knowledge. So with like 2 basic kicks and 2 basic punches you can be up to speed in like 2 years maybe less .. depends on training, and then you can be out in the ring. And it is far more effective to train those 2 punches and 2 kicks into body knowledge than it is to have a whole bunch of fancy stuff that isnt. Those guys will win.

The shaolin monks on the other hand ... well with them its a different thing. Its a whole spiritual thing. They do not really want your money. If you go to train with them, they do ask for money yes ... to support the temple, but if you are not dedicated and if you miss any training sessions ... they ask you too leave. If you imagine the basic fighting that I just described previously, and then you imagine this created into an art form that people spend decades learning, and start from childhood, and take far beyond 2 or 4 or 6 basic attacks, but a whole lifetime of dedicated learning. Then thats what you have ... one of the most incredible warrior arts there is.

There is a huge thread over at bb.com where people have been discussing this for ages. So far, no body has come up with anything conclusive. Also, keep in mind that these government studies are generally directed at the general population and are often not applicable to people who engage in heavy resistance training and/or cardio.

I do know ... thats why I said inconclusive and I also know very well that what the government thinks is right is not necessarily based on evidence ... but more likely political expediency or demographics. I have been around for a while

[Zimmer]

Originally Posted by Kirra

There is a huge thread over at bb.com where people have been discussing this for ages. So far, no body has come up with anything conclusive. Also, keep in mind that these government studies are generally directed at the general population and are often not applicable to people who engage in heavy resistance training and/or cardio.

Bill Starr has written about the benefits of taking vitamin supplements, at least from an athletic performance perspective.

athletic yes, but a normal human being has no need for it tbh. But when your talking an athletic your talking about guys who burns 6000-10000 calories, in a majority of any athletics season he has less use of such things, but when in competition season swimmers for example can burn upto 10.000 calories a day. Every breakfast in the olympic games, phelps ate pancakes with chocolate sauce to cover his calories.

In tour de france the cyclists have to cover over 8000 calories a day, here is 8000 calories a day: There is only logic sense that the need of vitamins and minerals also goes up.

I would say athletics are not a guy going to the gym once a day for training athletics are people who train several hours possibly 2 times a day ofc with rest days and so on.

[Kirra]

Originally Posted by Zimmer

athletic yes, but a normal human being has no need for it tbh. But when your talking an athletic your talking about guys who burns 6000-10000 calories, in a majority of any athletics season he has less use of such things, but when in competition season swimmers for example can burn upto 10.000 calories a day. every breakfast in teh olympic games, phelps ate pancakes with chocolate sauce to cover his calories.

In tour de france the cyclists have to cover over 8000 calories a day, here is 8000 calories a day: There is only logic sense that the need of vitamins and minerals also goes up.

I would say athletics are not a guy going to the gym once a day for training athletics are people who train several hours possibly 2 times a day ofc with rest days and so on.

Yep. With that being said, the vitamin doses that Bill Starr recommends for am. football players in hard training are VERY high when compared to the RDA.

[Twisted Helix]

I am undecided about it tbh. I tried a vitamin supplement pack one time when I was undergoing really hard training, and it had lots of different stuff in it. I do have to say that I did feel really fantastic, but I was highly suspicious of the fact it included ginseng, which I know if you take regularly also makes you feel pretty great all the time (apparently though this is person specific ... some people dont). I tried to narrow out the things by taking them separately over time individually to see if they had noticeable benefit, and the ones I now take regularly as I know they work for me, is Chondritin, Glucosamine, and Cod Liver Oil. I do take vitamins, because I think ... what the hell ... but I generally try to eat lots of fruit and veg as well (and having a wife whose a vegetarian, thats easier than eating meat :-/ )

[Rico]

Saturated fat is not the problem, despite the UK (and no doubt other countries) still advising we watch our intake. There is no proof that links it to CHD, only some piss poor studies where the results were made to match the hypothesis by not including all the results. I can't remember the exact study (it's American) but I did my advanced nutrition course last week that included the history of nutritional research.

It amazed me how the US for years put out very dangerous information that actually increased the rate of CHD despite there being much criticism about it, and to an extent still does.

What amazes me more, is that still, in the current day and age, the world can still not agree and come to more fact based conclusions on what is good or bad - saturated fat being one of them.

People still gasp when i tell them i used to eat 40 eggs a week as well!

[Twisted Helix]

Its becoming fat thats the problem, not the fat you consume. Although the whole 'anecdotal' evidence of the 'Mediterranean' life style, does point to unsaturated fat consumption (along with other factors) being linked to long life.

I put on fat really easily, but then I have northern climate genetics, I was built for winter and I can pile the fat on without thinking about it as the daylight hours close in. So I just give up at that time of year and go with the flow, try and do a bit of bulking up. But then I can sure loose it fast when it comes to spring/sommer. Got a mate who keeps himself in top condition, from the carribean, and he just doesn't put fat on at all no matter what he eats. I have to be really careful, and manage my diet (one of the problems with getting older ... your metabolism slows down), he can do what the fuck he wants (and I can out do him on runs) and never gets fat. Just doesn't put it on.

So much is down to genetics.

Originally Posted by kirra

As much as I respect the traditional eastern martial arts, they are simply not effective against people who know how to fight

This is an utterly nonsensical statement. It is saying that people who practice eastern martial arts do not know how to fight. I assume you have some evidence to back up your claims ? And I am not interested in second hand website guru bullshit, I want your own reasons from personal experience for holding such a view.

[Lord Jesus]

Originally Posted by Kirra

Can you elaborate?



Yup.



I did. "now is the time to burn your body and turn it into lean weight"



You burn the fat by changing your diet. Let's say that your maintenance calories are 3000kcal a day. All you need to do to lose bodyfat is to reduce the calories by 500kcal a day and that's literally all you need to do. Cardio doesn't offer any fat burning advantages that resistance training doesn't.



They gain the weight back quickly because they start eating above their caloric maintenance again.

Kirra, I am getting the sense that you are really narcissistic about yourself and make the assumption no one else has more knowledge than you do, and if anyone disagrees with you, they are wrong. My original statement is correct, you have to burn the fat, and gain muscle, that is what lean weight is.

Everyone works out in a different way, as long as that person is getting results, it's working. Every body has a different body, my advice is very basic and can help any person who is serious about getting lean muscle. It's worked for me, it's worked for others who I've given advice. You trying to correct me without giving any of your own advice just shows you are not a good influence to learn from. Because your goal to advise others is only to make them look at you like you are better than they are. This is egotistical and a effect from doing steroids. I hope I am not correct that you are a steroid user.

Originally Posted by Kirra

As much as I respect the traditional eastern martial arts, they are simply not effective against people who know how to fight. Just look at Pride, UFC, K1, etc etc. How many wing chun/karate/taekwondo guys are in there? How many of them are actually doing good?

It all comes down to experience, weight, reach, power and technique. You will hardly find anyone who trains in eastern martial arts to receive the same experience in their training than guys in the MMA. There are more variables to consider than just the style of fighting a fighter has. I've seen a experienced fighter who trained in MMA get beat by a street fighter, and the reason was he couldn't deal with the guy who constantly charged at him and was doing anything to win, including biting, and hitting the groin.


User infracted for flaming other user. Personal attacks will not be tolerated. - BloodBane