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Old 2008-11-26, 08:37   #1
entelin
Default Ticket amount, and flag value adjustments

I've been playing PR now for over 1.5 years or so, and I've always wondered why it is that on so many maps the ticket bleed doesn't occur (or perhaps occur in any meaningful way) until one side has pushed the other all the way back to their main. This does cause the winning side to be almost entirely determined by kill ratio, as opposed to successfully holding objectives. Is that intentional? While usually good kill ratio and holding objectives go hand in hand, its not always the case. I can remember many occasions particularly on kashan desert, road to kyongan ni, and some other maps, where my team had very decisively held more objectives the entire game yet we lost because from a ticket perspective holding the flags was meaningless. One recent example was a game of road to kyongan ni I played a couple days ago where our team held the middle flag the *entire* game, however due to constant fighting and nades lobbing over from outside we lost, our k/d ratio wasnt even all that much worse than theirs. Now you would think that from a purely logical point of view that this would change the way people play to more of a "spawn rape instead of objective" style of play, however to the communities credit that really hasn't happened to any meaningful degree. I would be interested to hear the logic behind why its setup like that, is bf2's ticket system simply not granular enough to allow a smaller than default ticket bleed? Or is k/d supposed to be the primary way of winning a map?

Secondly, and heres the suggestion part of this post. Some maps (imo) have way too many tickets, namely Kashan. Now yes I understand its supposed to be a longer more major PR map, and yes I understand that with a really organized team you could potentially win the map in 1 hour. However thats only very rarely the case, don't get me wrong, I love the map. It's just that 2+ hours on one map is a bit much. Few squads, let alone a whole team, can work together on a public server for that long. The map lasts so long that often the whole team winds up changing during the course of the map, so for the first hour you might have all the flags, and then the next it swings all the way back to the other side because people leave, new ones come, etc. And thats when you have a 64 player server, 40 or less and the map winds up taking even longer.

Kashan takes so long that in a typical map rotation its not uncommon to see every populated server stuck on it at the same time as in my attached screenshot. So I propose that the tickets be taken down a bit to bring its duration in line with other larger maps so that it doesn't have such a disproportional representation. I'm sure there are some other maps that could use some adjustments along these lines as well, some maps tend to play to quickly. Jabal al Burj, and Qwai River, both have perfect durations imo.
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Old 2008-11-26, 08:54   #2
Cobhris

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Default Re: Ticket amount, and flag value adjustments

Yeah, I've always wondered why you basically have to have the other team capped out to bleed their tickets. In fact, I think that is part of what makes PR take so long to play. BF2 rounds would probably last a comparable amount of time if not for ticket bleed.

And, I second the motion to cut the ticket count on Kashan. That map is way too long, even for PR. You can spend an entire night just playing that one map. The only time I ever stayed on for a whole round of Kashan was back in the summer when I had nothing to do all day but play PR.
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Old 2008-11-26, 10:29   #3
Fishbone
Default Re: Ticket amount, and flag value adjustments

I agree that objectives are practically meaningless. I am starting to believe that unless I have enough faith in the team that we are capable of capturing all the flags, that my squad might just as well take up a defensive position and sit it out. Especially when the teams are balanced it is extremely hard to set up a check mate to get a decisive victory. At the moment PR feels a bit like a DeathMatch especially with all the urban/forest maps focused on close combat.

Objectives have little use besides giving both teams a tour across the map.

I thought that enough tickets/time are given to allow you to win the game by taking all the objectives.
Quote:
Or is k/d supposed to be the primary way of winning a map?
I am curious about that too.
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Last edited by Fishbone; 2008-11-26 at 10:52..
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Old 2008-11-26, 12:59   #4
Rudd
Retired PR Developer
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Default Re: Ticket amount, and flag value adjustments

The only thing that stops me playing PR when I get the chance is that a round of a 64 map can take the whole 3 hrs. I'd like more stategic options as well, under the guise of cutting supplies or something


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Old 2008-11-27, 02:43   #5
entelin
Default Re: Ticket amount, and flag value adjustments

Personally I kinda suspect the bleed setup we have is related to a BF2 limitation or something.
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Old 2008-11-27, 07:49   #6
cyberzomby
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Default Re: Ticket amount, and flag value adjustments

yes I dont mind the system that is in place right now but you all are right. Why should we cap any other flag than one flag out of our base (to stop the enemey from bleeding us) and dig in hard so we kill a lot of them?
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Old 2008-11-27, 17:53   #7
Scandicci
Supporting Member

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Default Re: Ticket amount, and flag value adjustments

This K/D ratio issue is lost on most players. Running into the teeth of the opfor defensive positions is a really good way to loose, but many do this. I was called out by a squad member on Fools Road the other day because I was staying back to defend a forest position while the rest of the team was fighting at the village. As far as gameplay mechanics are concerned I like the current set-up. Over extending your team on a headlong assault can loose the match. However, if you can manage to cap out the opfor mainbase then you are assured victory. This means that an assault must be executed with a minimum of forethought and care. If opfor in turn is bent on sending waves of attacks then the best way to a win is to dig in and defend.

About whether the ticket amounts need to be decreased or not, I think that a match on Kashan that lasts three hours is way too long. On the flip side though I like longish rounds because it gives you time to organize and implement a plan, or even many plans.

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Old 2008-11-27, 19:08   #8
Orthas
Default Re: Ticket amount, and flag value adjustments

Completely agree on this one. All flags (expect the "middle" flag maybe) should have some kind of reward on them, be that getting bleed on enemy or ridding oneself of it. The bleeds don't have to be in big scale, maybe give a minor 1/min or 2/min bleed to flags that are really highly contested. This will lead to capturing having a meaning other than capping for the sake of capping. Other suggestions for flag rewards are assets naturally, like in Laniyal.

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Old 2008-11-27, 19:18   #9
entelin
Default Re: Ticket amount, and flag value adjustments

thats a really good idea I think, keep the middle flag with no bleed (except on maps where theres only 3 flags).
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Old 2008-11-27, 21:09   #10
Zeppelin35

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Default Re: Ticket amount, and flag value adjustments

Maybe getting certain flags could provide you with assets like the Laniyal flag on Korengal that gives the US team APCs and Littlebirds. But it should be connected to area of the flag like if you capture an area with high mountains or hills you can get off map support (Since the mountains could by used by artillary spotters), or a flag close to a road could allow your team to get tanks, or an area with AAA could prevent enemy jets and helos from spawning.
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