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Old 12-08-2011, 08:03 PM   #1
Wing Walker
Default PR-Deviation is Backwards

When you are aiming a heavy rifle your first second or two aiming would be your most accurate shot. A snap shot of sorts. All your muscles are working together to in one motion bring your sight to your eye and on target, fallowing through the trigger pull.

After that shot your muscles are holding the rifle up in one position trying not to move, which is why competition shooters need to have good control of their bodies, consciously moving their muscles and not the rifle.

The longer you hold a heavy rifle, such as something heavier than 7lbs, your muscles will begin to weaken and your aim will begin to sway more and more the longer you hold it there.

This doesn't mean that it would keep getting worse, but it would defiantly not be as accurate as the first few seconds grade to a certain level.

Waiting 8 seconds in a standing position holding a Sniper rifle or the LMG would actually degrade your accuracy the longer you aimed that way.

The Standing position should give 1 to 2 seconds of no deviation (I would prefer 1), with the deviation cone widening after that to a point where you would not have the best accuracy.

Simply put, it needs reversed to be realistic as a factor of how much the rifle weighs in real life to time/movement. In the standing, unsupported shooting stance only.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:15 PM   #2
badmojo420
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Default Re: PR-Deviation is Backwards

I don't think the point is to create a system that is absolutely accurate to real world standards. Rather it's there to create a firefight that plays out in a more realistic manner.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:26 PM   #3
Wing Walker
Default Re: PR-Deviation is Backwards

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmojo420 View Post
I don't think the point is to create a system that is absolutely accurate to real world standards. Rather it's there to create a firefight that plays out in a more realistic manner.
I thought this was Project Reality?

The effect I think you mean that is in place for the sake of game play, the "deviation cone", is still there in what I am talking about, but it should work in the opposite way.

It is basic human ability that needs to be molded here correctly, such as when we all had problems with the stamina of the troops being that of a 400lbs man. Running 20 yards and then having to walk while grenades are dropping around him.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:50 PM   #4
badmojo420
Supporting Member
Default Re: PR-Deviation is Backwards

I fully comprehend your point of view and what you propose.

How will this change will benefit firefights in PR? Won't a change like that just encourage people to run around and pop off quick accurate shots like it's call of duty?

People will do whatever works best in order to win at video games, that's a proven fact. What works in PR is similar to what works in real life. That was achieved by adding unrealistic things like the deviation system. Players need their best option to be the option the developers intended them to use. If we reversed the deviation system then players would adopt twitch style run and gunning, because it would work.

Edit: Also, you based this feedback on the sniper having best aim after standing with his weapon up for 8seconds. The sniper standing deviation was changed to that a while back because you can't rest the weapon on things in PR, and forcing people to always be prone while firing severely limited your options. So, while it makes sense that holding a large rifle up for a length of time will tire you out, and thus make your aim worse. It also makes sense that someone could rest the rifle on a window sill or whatever is around them. We have to take the good with the bad, it's good we can now fire standing, it's bad that a sniper standing in a field can hold his weapon up for hours without fatigue.
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Last edited by badmojo420; 12-08-2011 at 10:56 PM..
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:53 PM   #5
ComradeHX
Banned
Supporting Member
Default Re: PR-Deviation is Backwards

In real life; if you cannot hold the weapon still after merely a few seconds... you are NOT QUALIFIED to use it. Except for mounted weapons.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:59 PM   #6
badmojo420
Supporting Member
Default Re: PR-Deviation is Backwards

Real life isn't a video game.

Edit: But holding a weapon still and achieving maximum accuracy aren't exactly the same thing now are they?
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:07 PM   #7
Wing Walker
Default Re: PR-Deviation is Backwards

Quote:
Originally Posted by badmojo420 View Post
I fully comprehend your point of view and what you propose.

How will this change will benefit firefights in PR? Won't a change like that just encourage people to run around and pop off quick accurate shots like it's call of duty?

Quick? No, one quick shot, You come around a corner and I see You, and You see me. We both know one of us will be re spawning. Does it make more sense for that encounter to be decided on who is quicker at the key board for one shot...

... or does it make more sense to spray an entire mag of bullets in the other's general direction, bullets landing everywhere, and only 1 or 2 hitting a target 10 meters away? In a game where CQB is supposedly modeled.


People will do whatever works best in order to win at video games, that's a proven fact. What works in PR is similar to what works in real life. That was achieved by adding unrealistic things like the deviation system. Players need their best option to be the option the developers intended them to use. If we reversed the deviation system then players would adopt twitch style run and gunning, because it would work.


The ideal tactic would be move slightly to throw off his shot, then throw yours back.

Actually it slows down a fire fight since both sides wouldn't be able to just stand in a window, or behind something, and shoot at you all day. It would also give realistic CQB encounters. Walking around making a single snap shots would just get you killed if you encounter more than one target. Especially if it were more stable to go prone or crouch.

When we had problems before with fire being too accurate it was because there was no real deviation to speak of. This idea would still implement deviation just in the right way.


I just used the Sniper rifle as an example, it would be true for any rifle over about 7lbs, such as the FAL. For instance, the U.S. M4 is so light and ergonomic I can realistically see holding that all day shooting off hand.
Edit: Also, you based this feedback on the sniper having best aim after standing with his weapon up for 8seconds. The sniper standing deviation was changed to that a while back because you can't rest the weapon on things in PR, and forcing people to always be prone while firing severely limited your options. So, while it makes sense that holding a large rifle up for a length of time will tire you out, and thus make your aim worse. It also makes sense that someone could rest the rifle on a window sill or whatever is around them. We have to take the good with the bad, it's good we can now fire standing, it's bad that a sniper standing in a field can hold his weapon up for hours without fatigue.
Yes, and I was for the change at first, but in practice it makes the Sniper kit a little Vanilla to use. No learning curve.
Also, to this guy.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeHX View Post
In real life; if you cannot hold the weapon still after merely a few seconds... you are NOT QUALIFIED to use it. Except for mounted weapons. RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!
Chill out Rambo...

Go pick up a bull barreled Remington 700, with a scope and mount that weigh a few pounds on there own, and 5 rounds of .308 cartridges a tell me how long you can hold the cross hairs on a egg at 100 yards from the offhand position.

Come back on here and tell us how you did.
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Last edited by Wing Walker; 12-09-2011 at 08:19 PM..
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:19 PM   #8
Brainlaag

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Default Re: PR-Deviation is Backwards

As nice as it sounds to you Sharps, CQB battles will just look like back in 0.6, enemy spotted, bam enemy down thats it. Fights of about 10-20 second max, depending on how many opponents/friendlies there are.

A thing that might improve everything in conjunction with your idea is to add a small penalty at the start (dunno stand still for a sec or two and then what you said). I think you actually meant something like this, didn't you?
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:24 PM   #9
DNA9881

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Default Re: PR-Deviation is Backwards

It's there so you don't prone and then pop up and shoot someone in the face like an absolute troll that evades gravity.
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Old 12-09-2011, 08:25 PM   #10
Wing Walker
Default Re: PR-Deviation is Backwards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainlaag View Post
As nice as it sounds to you Sharps, CQB battles will just look like back in 0.6, enemy spotted, bam enemy down thats it. Fights of about 10-20 second max, depending on how many opponents/friendlies there are.

A thing that might improve everything in conjunction with your idea is to add a small penalty at the start (dunno stand still for a sec or two and then what you said). I think you actually meant something like this, didn't you?
The idea is adjustable to make it work. The key is making it work in the right direction.

A 1 sec settle time, an accurate shot, then you are unsettled and this is when we start off with the current beginning deviation. That is along the lines of what I was thinking.
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Last edited by Wing Walker; 12-09-2011 at 08:31 PM..
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