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Old 05-17-2018, 03:34 AM   #11
[R-DEV]​Arab
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: Bullet penetration, hear enemies in local chat, and other stuff

I remember back in the 0.8 days when I was a newb that the squad chat was considered an encrypted com while local were unencrypted

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Last edited by [R-DEV]Arab; 05-17-2018 at 03:59 AM..
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Old 09-09-2018, 11:06 AM   #12
[R-COM]rushn
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Default Re: Bullet penetration, hear enemies in local chat, and other stuff

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Originally Posted by Arab View Post
I remember back in the 0.8 days when I was a newb that the squad chat was considered an encrypted com while local were unencrypted
Real world inter team radios would likely be encrypted and probably frequency hopping. Although all the none near peer adversaries would not have that capability realistically.
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:25 PM   #13
bahiakof

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Default Re: Bullet penetration, hear enemies in local chat, and other stuff

Keeping Mumble free for both teams if they hear will cause serious problems of conduct on the servers.

There are more interesting ideas for DEVs to implement in the PR such as the new Commander icons

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Old 09-10-2018, 12:33 PM   #14
[R-DEV]​Rhino
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Default Re: Bullet penetration, hear enemies in local chat, and other stuff

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Originally Posted by RepealThe19th View Post
Shooting motherfuckers through walls
Bullet penetration is already semi-implemented from my understanding. However, I would like to argue in favor of implementing full "dumb" bullet penetration, allowing bullets from assault rifles to pierce through multiple surfaces as they do in real life, even if that comes with its share of bugs. Bullets do strange things in real life, perhaps bullets can deviate once they go through a surface (and have the bullet's force and deviation simply determined by the thickness of the material it is going through). Implementing a "dumb" bullet penetration system would lead to all kinds of bugs with shooting through rocks and various other things, but bullets will go through a surprising amount of stuff in real life - I can cite countless videos if anyone wants to argue that. Even if they don't go through something, they will often deviate and still cause some damage to what they hit. I would even let bullets go through all non-armored vehicles. Personally I would limit the bullet penetration system to weapons capable of over-penetration in real life, like assault rifles/some shotguns/light machine guns/etc. My main point here is that the material shouldn't matter, the bullet should be able to go through half a foot of basically anything. Making sure bullets react to each individual material properly is a cunt, and I understand. (Opinion alert) The more brutal the game is, the better, which leads me to...
The problem with bullet penetration in BF2 simply is, you can't truly specify how thick the surface it penetrating is, at least not without super complex col meshes applied to all objects in the game (all buildings, props, vehicle etc) and some clever coding of the materials to go on top of that, but doing the former would strain the servers to pretty much die whenever someone tried shooting a bullet through a wall as the server would have to calculate the bullets every centimetre of penetration through it, so if server lag and general playability is important to you, you will skip that idea.

So basically in BF2, you can only do penetration by first telling a surface what material it is, and then saying if another material (assigned to a projectile), can penetrate that material. If it can penetrate it then it will pass through that surface, with maybe some slight reduction in damage and maybe some deviation (already applied in the ingame code btw on things that are penetrable) until it hits another surface and then if it can penetrate that, applies the same above code again and so on.

This works well on really thin surfaces like corrugated iron fences that the bullet doesn't have far to travel through since even if the bullet hits the surface at a 45deg angle to the side of the fence, the distance to the other side is so small that that extra level of distance it would have to travel to get through the fence is pretty negligible in terms of the penetration power of the round.

However, if you have a 1/2 meter thick wall, the difference of hitting the wall dead on with a bullet and hitting it at a 45deg angle, let alone more, is huge. Remember that slanting the armour on the T-34 tank made the difference between German tanks being able to penetrate its armour, and not being able to, for this very reason. As such thick walls can't do penetration very well at the best of times.

But that isn't the biggest problem.

The biggest problem to doing a really good penetration system, is first making all the different types and then on top of that, thicknesses of material, and then applying them to every object in the game.
The first isn't so hard, it's just a lot of coding work with lets, for example, taking a Brick wall material, you would have to do and all the possible thicknesses of that wall there might be, so say a min of 5cm thick, then say 7.5cm, then 10cm, 12.5cm, 15cm, and so on and so on with other materials until you had all the materials and thicknesses you needed, which would be a hell of a lot of coding work.
Then secondly you would have to edit all the col meshes of every object in the game to apply these new materials to. Right now anything with a brick wall just has the basic, non-penetrable brick wall material. So you would then need to go around the objects and assign all the right materials to all the right bits and still you would want to make some bits, like corners of buildings non-penetrable so you didn't have insane shots going through one side of the building and out the other as if it had only passed through a few cms of wall and even then, your unlikely to stop all these major problems and that's even with major rework of all these cols. All of which is a hell of a lot of work and also, pretty highly skilled work that only a few people in the team could even do and that's with the latest tools that make it a lot easier than it was in the past even, but still a hell of a lot of tedious work.

So if your up for learning all this you can try and apply it yourself to your mod, but ye, no one in the team is going to be able to do this and then the end result being that good at the end of it.

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Old 09-16-2018, 08:24 AM   #15
Kovanaama
Default Re: Bullet penetration, hear enemies in local chat, and other stuff

Ooooh i remember the first versions of mumble when you could hear enemies. No thank you anymore. Altough it gives some amount of realism, people tend to reveil own squad location with music or yelling nonsense. Sometimes it was fun to pretend to be on enemy team and sneak behind their lines just yelling "dont shoot friendly coming in!" and then unleash havoc by throwing nades and shit.

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Old 09-19-2018, 11:24 PM   #16
B4rr3l
Default Re: Bullet penetration, hear enemies in local chat, and other stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
The problem with bullet penetration in BF2 simply is, you can't truly specify how thick the surface it penetrating is, at least not without super complex col meshes applied to all objects in the game (all buildings, props, vehicle etc) and some clever coding of the materials to go on top of that, but doing the former would strain the servers to pretty much die whenever someone tried shooting a bullet through a wall as the server would have to calculate the bullets every centimetre of penetration through it, so if server lag and general playability is important to you, you will skip that idea.

So basically in BF2, you can only do penetration by first telling a surface what material it is, and then saying if another material (assigned to a projectile), can penetrate that material. If it can penetrate it then it will pass through that surface, with maybe some slight reduction in damage and maybe some deviation (already applied in the ingame code btw on things that are penetrable) until it hits another surface and then if it can penetrate that, applies the same above code again and so on.

This works well on really thin surfaces like corrugated iron fences that the bullet doesn't have far to travel through since even if the bullet hits the surface at a 45deg angle to the side of the fence, the distance to the other side is so small that that extra level of distance it would have to travel to get through the fence is pretty negligible in terms of the penetration power of the round.

However, if you have a 1/2 meter thick wall, the difference of hitting the wall dead on with a bullet and hitting it at a 45deg angle, let alone more, is huge. Remember that slanting the armour on the T-34 tank made the difference between German tanks being able to penetrate its armour, and not being able to, for this very reason. As such thick walls can't do penetration very well at the best of times.

But that isn't the biggest problem.

The biggest problem to doing a really good penetration system, is first making all the different types and then on top of that, thicknesses of material, and then applying them to every object in the game.
The first isn't so hard, it's just a lot of coding work with lets, for example, taking a Brick wall material, you would have to do and all the possible thicknesses of that wall there might be, so say a min of 5cm thick, then say 7.5cm, then 10cm, 12.5cm, 15cm, and so on and so on with other materials until you had all the materials and thicknesses you needed, which would be a hell of a lot of coding work.
Then secondly you would have to edit all the col meshes of every object in the game to apply these new materials to. Right now anything with a brick wall just has the basic, non-penetrable brick wall material. So you would then need to go around the objects and assign all the right materials to all the right bits and still you would want to make some bits, like corners of buildings non-penetrable so you didn't have insane shots going through one side of the building and out the other as if it had only passed through a few cms of wall and even then, your unlikely to stop all these major problems and that's even with major rework of all these cols. All of which is a hell of a lot of work and also, pretty highly skilled work that only a few people in the team could even do and that's with the latest tools that make it a lot easier than it was in the past even, but still a hell of a lot of tedious work.

So if your up for learning all this you can try and apply it yourself to your mod, but ye, no one in the team is going to be able to do this and then the end result being that good at the end of it.
Well, seems that if someone can make it work that someone is you kkkkk

Now seriously, do you plan on make an updated tutorial of the lightmap using max with latest tool at some point? that is something that could bring a really huge improvement to the game while keeping the same texture size, now with latest raytraced procedural renders
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:21 AM   #17
[R-DEV]​Rhino
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Default Re: Bullet penetration, hear enemies in local chat, and other stuff

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Originally Posted by B4rr3l View Post
Now seriously, do you plan on make an updated tutorial of the lightmap using max with latest tool at some point? that is something that could bring a really huge improvement to the game while keeping the same texture size, now with latest raytraced procedural renders
Seriously you're bringing this up again and in here?

If you can't follow the current tutorial is already very detailed and if you can't work out any of the small changes there are with the new tools, you can either ask in the forums specifically about each of those changes (which already have explanations in with the tools) or follow the tut as it stands and if you can't follow the current, you won't be able to follow an updated tutorial which I'm not going to be making, especially since your the only one who can't follow the current one....

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Old 09-21-2018, 09:53 PM   #18
B4rr3l
Default Re: Bullet penetration, hear enemies in local chat, and other stuff

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Originally Posted by Rhino View Post
Seriously you're bringing this up again and in here?

If you can't follow the current tutorial is already very detailed and if you can't work out any of the small changes there are with the new tools, you can either ask in the forums specifically about each of those changes (which already have explanations in with the tools) or follow the tut as it stands and if you can't follow the current, you won't be able to follow an updated tutorial which I'm not going to be making, especially since your the only one who can't follow the current one....
I've tried to PM... sorry I just dumb, it's not that I can't follow I just can't imagine a way of lightmaping 22 maps that way, but that's fine, just don't forget that the same way as you guys, all my doubts are to give something back to the community...
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