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Old 2015-06-15, 11:12   #1
ComradeHX
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Default Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op



Here I tested, without compensating for recoil in any way, UBGL AK-74M vs. modified(600rpm -> 900rpm) rifleman-ALT AK-74M on Hades Peak INF locally.

As anyone can clearly tell, the recoil is significantly lower overall with 900rpm and it does not shift to left/right significantly(although still noticeable) either.



Here I tested, without compensating for recoil, IDF's UBGL M4 vs. modified(900rpm -> 600rpm) rifleman-ALT M4 on Bijar Canyon ALT locally.

M4(and from experience, every other BluFor rifle, 600 or 900rpm) does not suffer nearly as much from problem of animation.
600 or 900rpm, it goes mostly straight up. But obviously 600rpm version had more recoil, as it went higher than 900rpm version after firing.



Problem gets worse on semi-auto, where animation will play out fully.

IIRC, AK-74M has lower recoil(vertical and horizontal) "stat" than M4.

Two things needed to be fixed:

1. fix AK-74M animation(make it shift camera top-right if at all).

2. fix length of animation(so a high rate of fire does not make recoil nearly-nonexistent) for other weapons or increase their recoil to match.
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Last edited by ComradeHX; 2015-06-15 at 22:18..
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Old 2015-06-15, 13:17   #2
Strategos

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Default Re: Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op

These are pretty impressive demonstrations. Thanks for doing the field work and recording the videos. Hope this gets fixed.

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Old 2015-06-15, 15:03   #3
TristanYockell
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Default Re: Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op

Thanks for posting. I knew something was wonky, when fighting blufor now their firearms feel like lasers.

They out perform in most ways and even when firing on them first you often lose simply due to accuracy and shot follow up times.
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Last edited by TristanYockell; 2015-06-15 at 15:24..
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Old 2015-06-15, 16:12   #4
DavviZ

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Default Re: Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op

Great demonstration!
I fully agree with the changes you suggest. For too long high RPM rifles have dominated and the one that sprays the fastest win.

Especially the ak-74 variants have been broken for a while now.
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Old 2015-06-15, 17:43   #5
tankninja1

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Default Re: Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op

The M4 should recoil like an undeployed m249 be much more realistic and balanced.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f25...f-request.html

Blufor guns are fine. You keep insisting that there is a "recoil animation bug" but it is more likely user end. Because the ak74 is lower ROF you have a little time to make small adjustments between shots, whether these are conscious movements or not, something you can't do with the m4s. Further the high ROF of BLufor guns is cancelled by the fact that they burn through ammo stupidly fast.

http://imgur.com/a/G8m6P

Overall Ak74 recoil effects horizontal spread more, M4 effects vertical spread more.
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Last edited by tankninja1; 2015-06-15 at 18:20..
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Old 2015-06-15, 22:04   #6
ComradeHX
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Default Re: Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op

Quote:
Originally Posted by tankninja1 View Post
The M4 should recoil like an undeployed m249 be much more realistic and balanced.

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f25...f-request.html

Blufor guns are fine. You keep insisting that there is a "recoil animation bug" but it is more likely user end. Because the ak74 is lower ROF you have a little time to make small adjustments between shots, whether these are conscious movements or not, something you can't do with the m4s. Further the high ROF of BLufor guns is cancelled by the fact that they burn through ammo stupidly fast.

M4/Ak74 recoil @ 20m - Album on Imgur

Overall Ak74 recoil effects horizontal spread more, M4 effects vertical spread more.
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f25...request-3.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeHX View Post
When full-auto AR-15 has similar recoil to M249(undeployed), it would be balanced and realistic.


Only "user end" problem is not being able to predict whether the gun will swing wildly to left or right...oh wait that's NOT a user problem...
AK-74 needs you to "subconsciously" compensate for horizontal recoil(which is next to impossible).
M4 just needs you to pull down a little.
And if happened to be using Tavor, you don't have to pull down much at all.

The fact is that there are two problems:
1. AK-74 recoil animation is fucked; it's causing AK-74 to unrealisticly sway left/right when firing.
2. length of recoil animation(on all guns) have been cut short by the next round fired, which means fullauto == lower recoil and faster ROF == even lower recoil.
They are both completely unrealistic and needed to be fixed.

It's pretty obvious how higher ROF has less muzzle rise and does not go left/right nearly as much.


BluFor guns are not "fine" unless you only play BluFor. Last time I checked, IRL a higher rate of fire does not make gun more controllable...

Burn through ammo? Amount of ammo left is useless if you DIED first. And if you don't want to "burn" ammo...you could just fire on semiauto; the animation makes it easier to keep on target(pull down for the most part).

AK-74 has horrid horizontal recoil that made no sense(without muzzle brake, AK recoils top-right; with muzzle brake, AKM recoils mostly upwards and AK-74 recoils mostly backwards) in this game while M4 has less recoil in ANY direction...
Don't try to bullshit anyone. It's not impossible to shoot AK-74 somewhat accurately in full-auto; but it takes MUCH MORE effort to do so(because you just need to pull down a little with M4...etc.)...that is why BluFor weapons are easymode(which is completely unrealistic).

This is also why HAMAS is so popular; because they have M16...etc. that are just slightly worse than Tavor(sad day to be Warrior, you got to pick from shitty AK-"47" and shitty Galil).

Pictures tell nothing. You can see from my video(in 1080p60fps) that I was testing recoil, not deviation, from continuous firing. I can't tell from your picture where you fired from, how much you tried to compensate for recoil, or even what gun fired the bullets.
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Last edited by ComradeHX; 2015-06-15 at 22:24..
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Old 2015-06-15, 23:11   #7
[R-DEV]​rPoXoTauJIo
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Default Re: Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op

Not every bluefor op actually. L85 is same shit, if not even worse. Type95 also having problems, won't you deny the fact that chinese forces are bluefor?

assetruler69: I've seen things you smurfs wouldn't believe. Apaches on the Kashan. I watched burned down tank hulls after the launch of the single TOW. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
Time to give up and respawn.
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Old 2015-06-15, 23:45   #8
ComradeHX
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Default Re: Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op

Quote:
Originally Posted by rPoXoTauJIo View Post
Not every bluefor op actually. L85 is same shit, if not even worse. Type95 also having problems, won't you deny the fact that chinese forces are bluefor?
L85 has no such problem as recoil throwing aim left/right too much.
QBZ-95 isn't that bad either.

By your logic, RUS is also blufor; it happens once in a while when RUS or China gets on insurgency.
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Old 2015-06-15, 23:48   #9
Navo
Default Re: Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op

Hamas are OpFor and get AR15's.

There is no BluFor bias here, not the devs' fault the AR15 is designed to have low recoil.
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Old 2015-06-16, 01:08   #10
ComradeHX
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Default Re: Animation & Rate of fire - why BluFor weapons are op

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navo View Post
Hamas are OpFor and get AR15's.

There is no BluFor bias here, not the devs' fault the AR15 is designed to have low recoil.
Hamas is the exception, not the norm...
No matter how BluFor biased you are; people will easily catch your bullshit if M16A1 somehow shoots terribly compared to M4.

You know what else is designed to have low recoil? AK-74, and it does the job very well.
Except that's not the case in this game.

Notice how I posted nothing about AK-"47" and AKM because they DO have high recoil.

I call bullshit if anyone played this game for more than an hour and didn't notice how BluFor weapons are unrealistically easy(because higher rate of fire == lower recoil!!!) to use.

Location: netherlands... Why am I not surprised you would deny there is BluFor bias on these guns?
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