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PR:Falklands General Discussion General discussion of the Project Reality Falklands modification.

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Old 11-12-2017, 08:38 PM   #11
Rabbit
Default Re: Why this map isnt being played anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by [R-DEV]Rhino View Post
No main forces were ever fighting there, only the odd SF fight etc and POW camps etc, all the main fighting was on the NE island.

Generally in a war you want to control a point of interest or OKOCA (Observiving fields of fire, key terrain features, obstacles, cover and concealment, avenues of approach). While generally agreed upon in the military, its used in civilian use as well. Looking at the western island you can see for civilian use, there isnt much use for it. And even with the several landing zones/ hasty airfields op/ artillery outpost there isnt much need for it. Already a key issues with the Eastern island is goose green, its a bottleneck, thus why you see less fighting down there. Now you make it a 15km water crossing, its suicide unless you have air superiority.

Also, great, you occupied an area of 0 interest to the defending force, what stops them from launching the monster of all naval bombardments on you? If its something that falls in okoca, they may want to limit or totally negate all bombardment on the area, save you from all hell.

So pretty much, the western island is useless unless the invading army has air superiority, which they didn't, and because of that few key points to hold. Best case scenario it would be areas they would get 8 digit grids for and do areal denial for.

Edit: but what do I know

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Old 01-19-2018, 05:36 PM   #12
Avenged_Fate
Default Re: Why this map isnt being played anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire1.2 View Post

Nowdays Falklands is rarely being set as the next map (it's not even included in map votes).
Why is that? I do get that from the infantry man's prespective it doesnt have many terrain features.
What do you guys think the problem is? and what can be changed to make it better?

It's sad because so muh work has been done to make this map and noone plays it
TL;DR: Not enough people for inf fights, iron sights in extremely long map, just not enough coordination to have actually enjoyable gameplay

It's up to the admins to set the maps, and they usually prefer to set maps that won't empty the server due to boredom.

In maps like Bijar, you'll notice that the fight only concentrates itself around the urban area, so the remaining 95% of the map is left empty, with the occasional Fobs and fire fights here and there. Of course there are some really epic moments from time to time, and those are the ones we remember as being true PR moments, but most of the time it isn't like that.

Same thing for Falklands, lot of empty space, only 2 or 3 INF squads per team, with iron sights. Yeah, I know, realism and all, but past 100 meters you can't see anything, which is just not enjoyable at all.

Possible fixes:
-iron sights swapped for scopes (both sides)
-reduction in the number of jets
-increase in servers' sizes (although this is just not going to happen, possibly ever)
-(can't remember more now, but open to suggestions)
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:35 AM   #13
SShadowFox
Default Re: Why this map isnt being played anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xx_Avenged_Fate_HTID_xX View Post
Same thing for Falklands, lot of empty space, only 2 or 3 INF squads per team, with iron sights. Yeah, I know, realism and all, but past 100 meters you can't see anything, which is just not enjoyable at all.

Possible fixes:
-iron sights swapped for scopes (both sides)
-reduction in the number of jets
-increase in servers' sizes (although this is just not going to happen, possibly ever)
-(can't remember more now, but open to suggestions)
Most of your points were dismissed by Rhino on the last page. link

I love Falklands and it's a pity that it isn't played much. It forces you to use tactics, you can't see shit past 100 meters, that's fine, just have an MG or AR laying down some fire while the rest of the squad gets closer to engage properly at closer range.

There's more infantry on this map than the average PR 4km map, and despite the whole map area being quite big, the actual "game area" is the same as in a 4km map.


[R-DEV]Spec:The suggestion is not accepted, I merely wanted to comment.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:13 PM   #14
Murphy

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Default Re: Why this map isnt being played anymore?

The fact that there is only a limited number of assets that can be used on any given map combined with the size of this map (despite having a comparable play area) makes for a lot of open space. Even if there are areas that offer infantry some sort of cover to fight over this game mostly devolves into assets having an unproportional influence over the battle. CAS might not take that many players, and they may not have laser guides munitions but they are largely uncontested after one side establishes dominance. I believe this is why many players knee jerk reaction is "there isn't enough INF". It is because infantry units exert less influence on the outcome of the round by themselves, and CAS can pour munitions down onto the enemy after they have won the initial battle for control of the air space.

I have had many fun rounds on Falklands but I can understand why the general pub round on this particular map can easily suck. If one team has bad pilots the fight is pretty one sided, even dumb bombs can be super effective at clearing a flag when there are few places for infantry to seek cover.

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Old 01-21-2018, 10:22 PM   #15
[R-DEV]Rhino
PR:BF2 Developer
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Default Re: Why this map isnt being played anymore?

Cheers Shadow Fox

Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
CAS might not take that many players, and they may not have laser guides munitions but they are largely uncontested after one side establishes dominance. I believe this is why many players knee jerk reaction is "there isn't enough INF". It is because infantry units exert less influence on the outcome of the round by themselves, and CAS can pour munitions down onto the enemy after they have won the initial battle for control of the air space.

I have had many fun rounds on Falklands but I can understand why the general pub round on this particular map can easily suck. If one team has bad pilots the fight is pretty one sided, even dumb bombs can be super effective at clearing a flag when there are few places for infantry to seek cover.
Spawn times of the jets are much lower on the Falklands than standard maps. This is partly because the time to get to and from the islands from the airbase/carrier is much larger than a standard PR map, but even with that extra turnaround time, it is still shorter still to keep air assets in constant battle with each other, so no side can really ever have full supremacy over the airspace.
But yes your point about if one team has much more skilled pilots over the other is a very valid one and even with the constant stream of aircraft heading towards each other, if one side is always beating the other due simply down to skill, then there isn't much I can really do about that from a map design perspective, although I do hope to make the Tigercat SAM deployable in the future to give ground forces a better chance at defending themselves from attacking bombers, but we ideally need to rework the deployable system a bit to do that exactly how I would like.

It should also be noted that in the next major update of the Falklands, with the inclusion of the Frigate, I plan to reduce the amount of CAS the British have somewhat to compensate, and while the Argentines may get a little more CAS to compensate, my hope will be that both the Frigate and the Argentine CAS will be pretty busy fighting each other off most of the time, that both the Frigate and the Argentine CAS won't be focusing very much on the ground forces, giving them a bit of a breather with any luck, as well as I may also increase the spawn tme on the CAS jets while keeping the ASF jet spawns pretty low.

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Old 01-22-2018, 09:01 AM   #16
FlyingR
Default Re: Why this map isnt being played anymore?

Excellent Rhino, really can't wait for it! Also people forget to build AAs in their FOBs...
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:07 PM   #17
Avenged_Fate
Default Re: Why this map isnt being played anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SShadowFox View Post
Most of your points were dismissed by Rhino on the last page. link

I love Falklands and it's a pity that it isn't played much. It forces you to use tactics, you can't see shit past 100 meters, that's fine, just have an MG or AR laying down some fire while the rest of the squad gets closer to engage properly at closer range.

There's more infantry on this map than the average PR 4km map, and despite the whole map area being quite big, the actual "game area" is the same as in a 4km map.
After posting this, I did a little more digging up on the subject, and raised the issue with the DEVs themselves. They told me that they weren't going to change anything on Falklands because of the context it's inserted in and realism.
I've changed my opinions on the subject quite dramatically, actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SShadowFox View Post
It forces you to use tactics
That's true, it very much does so, but I've never really seen anybody putting actual real-life tactics into practice. It's just running here shooting, running there bombing (Rudy Reyes, GK), trying to get the drop on the enemy team.
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Old 04-03-2018, 04:38 AM   #18
Panzer Commander

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Default Re: Why this map isnt being played anymore?

I have never played it myself, your lucky to get a Vietnam map nowadays aswell.

We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender. - Winston Churchill.
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Old 04-26-2018, 10:03 PM   #19
Raklodder
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Default Re: Why this map isnt being played anymore?

I think it's a great map, but unfortunately the sheer size of it, might scare some people away.


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