Project Reality Forums

Project Reality Forums (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/index.php)
-   PR:BF2 Feedback (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=252)
-   -   Civilian penalties not apparent enough (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151327)

BigBigMonkeyMan 2021-12-02 02:44

Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
 
Well the real deterrent is the loss of intel points. Sure it's funny seeing a player with -500 points (especially an experienced one) but as a civi, I don't care about my points that much (though it would be awesome if a civi that got martyred a lot showed up near the top of the scoreboard). But to players that haven't read the manual in detail, intel points and the role civis play are really not easy to see or measure. I know an "intel point counter" would be super gamey and unrealistic, but some way to measure progress of intel points would be good. There are already plenty of automatic server messages that appear during insurgency games, so maybe some immersive dialogue regarding to progress towards revealing the cache could be good, such as "Slowly recovering intel" and then maybe closer to the necessary amount "Intelligence division processing intel reports."
I don't know how possible audio of this type of thing would be. I mean, once there are 50 tickets, a siren goes off that is not in game but is sent to every player individually. Same with the new commander event. BF2 used to have alerts when the enemy capped flags. I would assume it would take a little bit of work, but having those types of audio alerts could be more immersive than bright green or orange text at the top of the screen and could make everyone more aware of what is going on.
As far as civi gameplay, I agree that the breaching shotgun is OP in the arresting of civilians and I know the reason it is the way that it is (inventory slots), but on insurgency maps maybe replace the restraints on the breacher kit with the old bean bag shotgun.
I agree giving the civi some sort of weapon could make the civi-blufor meta more tense and interesting. RKGs are too powerful though, and in the right hands a pistol could be. But a six-shot revolver with two mags in reserve and booby trap grenade I think would be just the right balance, but only make this a limited kit, 5-6 per team.
I also think the civi-timer should be lowered to 1:45.
These changes would buff the civi, but making players more aware of that cost to their team, I think it would also lead to less civilian killing.

Grump/Gump.45 2021-12-05 10:13

Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by axytho (Post 2213676)
@Grump Please don't write walls of text

Look below. Its really not that hard to read, doesn't look formatted well but nothing ENTER can't fix with some paragraphs. Its just that fast pace game that makes you subconsciously feel "I don't have time to read/skim that. Im too good to listen to someone else". Im not only one doing it. I taught you in the first place through the tips. Let big brains be big brains cause it hold a lot of sounds/symbols to share. Once I read it and get the feel for it to remember what is written, thoughts and feelings are condensed lines of code to be expressed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBigMonkeyMan (Post 2214059)
Well the real deterrent is the loss of intel points. Sure it's funny seeing a player with -500 points (especially an experienced one) but as a civi, I don't care about my points that much (though it would be awesome if a civi that got martyred a lot showed up near the top of the scoreboard). But to players that haven't read the manual in detail, intel points and the role civis play are really not easy to see or measure. I know an "intel point counter" would be super gamey and unrealistic, but some way to measure progress of intel points would be good. There are already plenty of automatic server messages that appear during insurgency games, so maybe some immersive dialogue regarding to progress towards revealing the cache could be good, such as "Slowly recovering intel" and then maybe closer to the necessary amount "Intelligence division processing intel reports."
I don't know how possible audio of this type of thing would be. I mean, once there are 50 tickets, a siren goes off that is not in game but is sent to every player individually. Same with the new commander event. BF2 used to have alerts when the enemy capped flags. I would assume it would take a little bit of work, but having those types of audio alerts could be more immersive than bright green or orange text at the top of the screen and could make everyone more aware of what is going on.
As far as civi gameplay, I agree that the breaching shotgun is OP in the arresting of civilians and I know the reason it is the way that it is (inventory slots), but on insurgency maps maybe replace the restraints on the breacher kit with the old bean bag shotgun.
I agree giving the civi some sort of weapon could make the civi-blufor meta more tense and interesting. RKGs are too powerful though, and in the right hands a pistol could be. But a six-shot revolver with two mags in reserve and booby trap grenade I think would be just the right balance, but only make this a limited kit, 5-6 per team.
I also think the civi-timer should be lowered to 1:45.
These changes would buff the civi, but making players more aware of that cost to their team, I think it would also lead to less civilian killing.

BigMonkeyMan, Thank you for your input into the civilian issue. Commander of BLUFOR should have a scroll history list to track caches down and civilians killed/arrested. Like I said, we need team based punishments for that peer pressure.

Loving the ideas for RKG and a few concealed weapons for civilians, don't know how possible that is. Wish insurgent civilians could wear rags on the head like the fighters, provide more confusion and not be obvious as civilian with nothing on. Even the Hamas civilian looks like a fighter with the mask/uniform.

We need to be able to stand in front of roadblocks to protect them from the tank taking down the hard work. Civilian is one of the few insurgency balances because it takes 5-20 minutes to build roadblocks but tank takes them down in 60 seconds, and you actually have to coordinate the human shield to be done.

Its un-balanced and un-realistic to have a breacher who could arrest them by lone wolfing from a rooftop close by, arresting as fast as he can aim and click. It has happened in past and I refuse to put free easy arrests out there at a landmark position with no cover. Same for a rock throwing line that could actually be effective at defending cache mixed with fighters on rooftops. Another barrier of work, barriers that support each other by the rules functions. Can't just allow arresting people from a rooftop at distance.

Its fair enough to require security for civilians from basically having zombies try to arrest them, it becomes a little minigame for the insurgent fighter to shoot the closest guy with cuffs. Forces the insurgent fighter to peek with APC security in area to save his guy or have civilian run to him. It says right at the top "Realistic Gaming Redefined". I will invoke it.

rogdozz 2021-12-05 17:51

Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
 
After the discussion we've had so far it seems like the minimum, no-brainer solution is to remove shotgun arrest. Basically everyone seems to support that change, and it would help make insurgency game mode more balanced (currently on almost every INS map the insurgents are at a heavy disadvantage)

Grump/Gump.45 2021-12-29 13:37

Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rogdozz (Post 2214093)
After the discussion we've had so far it seems like the minimum, no-brainer solution is to remove shotgun arrest. Basically everyone seems to support that change, and it would help make insurgency game mode more balanced (currently on almost every INS map the insurgents are at a heavy disadvantage)

Like civilians could actually gather without having to suddenly scatter when a shotgun starts firing. All dropped kits as ANY insurgent should yield rocks. Civilians defend the cache and human shield the roadblocks while providing 10 other uses at the same time related to baiting, distraction and chaos. I just recently found out that dropping your kit, is actually requesting a "dropped kit" that has a location you can go back to and drop your kit which has improved my playing dead skill.

Just imagine having a crowd that any fighter regardless of civilian timer can drop weapon and join to wait out their timer. We could have a AKM RKG kit dropped within the crowd for somebody to pick up if they try to arrest us with cuffs. Just so much realism possibilities. I am thinking of ways for a fighter to stand infront of the crowd and make enemy miss him to get civis martyred behind him. So many funny things could happen if we change the shotgun from instant arrest to stamina bar empty.

Like I said, we could have shotgun empty full stamina bar to assist in cuff arrest or be used as self defense against rushing civilian crowd against outnumbered soldiers. But have it with penalty hitbox against civilian, like hitting a civilian in the head violating the correct use of a beanbag round and treatment of civilians. With -25% health and -1 intel point per headshot with beanbag shotgun. Maiming and permanently disfiguring/damaging civilians is a loss of intel -1 until death which is -5 right now, with 4 head hits could total -9 in that specific scenario.

It could even apply to rifles, every bullet a civilian gets hit with and survives is -1 intel while they are mobile. -1 intel to reflect extra brutality. Shooting a civilian in the limb is -1 intel each shot it takes till death which usually takes 2 shots to the leg so -7 intel max. With pistol it could be up to 3 or 4 hits so -8 or-9 intel max. Killing a civilian faster versus basically torturing them with bullet wounds till dead to reflect brutality. So people are careful how they do things.

JUSTICE FOR CIVILIANS... MORE PENALITIES FOR WAR CRIMES. REPRIMAND ENTIRE UNITS FOR ACTIONS OF ONE SOLDIER.

THEY SHOULD BE GIVEN PENALTY INCENTIVES TO POLICE EACH OTHER. STARTING FROM THE SQUAD LEADER FOR REALISM

Stolt_Yugoslav 2022-06-24 12:26

Re: Civilian penalties not apparent enough
 
"banned for 5 minutes". Instant court-martial!

Extra fun if youre playing on HoG and its 100/100. People will be more careful ;) I promise.


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:29.

Powered by: vBulletin. ©vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All Content Copyright ©2004 - 2022, Project Reality