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-   -   (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=151230)

LangMaster 2021-07-20 12:54

(Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
So i've recently decided to try and learn how to make a proper realistic vehicle model, since i usually do original stuff from my mind, this one is a different as you gotta follow blueprints and real life calculations to make the model as close as possible to the real life object.

I've decided to try and learn on vehicle called M1128 Mobile Gun System, Stryker MGS in short, i am in love with the vehicle design and i gotta say the vehicle looks mint with a cage on it, i've seen them in real life since there was one a convoy to a my country from US in 2016, those things are sick, pretty much what would you expect in a term of a glass cannon.

I am working on this for a short while now and i am close to try and make a quick texture for it just to see for my self how it would look. I was hoping it would maybe one day make it's way inside PR.

I made a quick hull design but right now i focus on the turret mainly first.
The turret now has 8000 Tris for now.

https://i.imgur.com/Rkd3gNf.png
https://i.imgur.com/9Evyb3K.png
https://i.imgur.com/W6rzbyt.png
https://i.imgur.com/63i9ndG.png
https://i.imgur.com/2FX3UN3.png

Nate. 2021-07-20 14:13

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
wow nice!

Mats391 2021-07-20 14:54

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Looking real nice, but 8k tris just for turret is a lot. Easiest way to cut down on tris would be to make things less round. Especially here. Such a small detail does not need that many tris
https://imgur.com/inaoK7b.png

I would also make the hatch/cupola deeper. Otherwise it will look weird when soldier crouches
https://imgur.com/SwKYvBD.png

LangMaster 2021-07-20 17:32

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats391 (Post 2212406)
Looking real nice, but 8k tris just for turret is a lot. Easiest way to cut down on tris would be to make things less round. Especially here. Such a small detail does not need that many tris
https://imgur.com/inaoK7b.png

I would also make the hatch/cupola deeper. Otherwise it will look weird when soldier crouches
https://imgur.com/SwKYvBD.png

Alrighty, yeah i was trying to keep the smallest round stuff not that round, i guess i kinda skipped the rule for that one, as you said earlier, it's easier for the game to run when everything is merged together so yeah. The turret is pretty much finished at the moment i think i miss a camera or something spinny again on the top back, and a mg mount for the machine gunner.

The thing is this turret is insane there is tons of stuff, usually turret is just one box but this is crazy monster.

LangMaster 2021-07-20 21:00

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
So i, played a bit with the textures and, there is alot of ways i can do this actually, i've literally just came up with this in an hour and i have no single clue what am i doing since i never did textures in blender.
I really wanted to just try it on how it could possibly look.

https://i.imgur.com/7rY1dWZ.png
I mean, for a first try not bad lol, though i am still missing alot.

Mats391 2021-07-21 06:59

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Before starting with texture, it would be best to post your UV so others can give feedback on it. Then you can use your rather high poly model to bake AO and normals.

LangMaster 2021-07-21 10:40

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats391 (Post 2212410)
Before starting with texture, it would be best to post your UV so others can give feedback on it. Then you can use your rather high poly model to bake AO and normals.

Man it's not my fault that i am a fuken detailist. I swear i am saving those triangles lol. If i would be allowed to go with a full banger this thing would not even load in blender anymore.

Ima gonna try to get some tris down and get the UV

Mineral 2021-07-21 14:43

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Best way to use a love for adding detail is to make a high poly mesh and bake it to texture :)

But no matter the game, all games have budgets for textures sizes, triangle counts, draw calls,....

Unfortunately for us given the age of the game we have rather low budgets.

LangMaster 2021-07-21 15:33

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineral (Post 2212419)
Best way to use a love for adding detail is to make a high poly mesh and bake it to texture :)

But no matter the game, all games have budgets for textures sizes, triangle counts, draw calls,....

Unfortunately for us given the age of the game we have rather low budgets.

Yeah i know there is a way to do like a shader texture or a texture that tells what is reflecting light and what not and it actually makes it look like it is modeled but its just a shadow that is doing that, i know about that and i don't know how they do that so i would have to watch some tutorials for that stuff. I did some optimizing and downed the trist to 6k count, and is this what did you want to see ? https://i.imgur.com/mLClQA2.png

LangMaster 2021-07-22 07:32

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Did a bit of an update on the open hatch so it looks how it is supposed to look.
https://i.imgur.com/FPdkf2A.png
https://i.imgur.com/7kjhef9.png
Still missing the machine gun holder or what ever is it supposed to be called.
https://i.imgur.com/4sDuqQG.png

Hans_Strudel 2021-07-22 11:36

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Good model made in such a short time!
But i would suggest make a highpoly model and bake some details for your low poly model - that will save you another 1-2k triangles.
For example these areas marked red do not extrude a lot and at longer distances might start z-fighting, so it would be much easier to just bake them on turret. Turret itself can be optimised with less sides and baked too (for example T-62 turret is about 16 sides round and i can't tell it's sharp, but need to look at topology to be sure ). Green marks areas i would likely delete at all since players would never see it (except you decide to add something interesting like turret knocking out on wreckage geometry). Also you can delete faces on bottom of the turret since they are looking at hull and players would never see them too.
https://i.yapx.ru/NSK8u.png
https://i.yapx.ru/NSK8Q.png

As for UV you shown, there are plenty of free space that can be used for more detailed texture. Less free space on UV the better it will be (2k texture will remain 2k but with a lot of unused space there will be a lot of dead weight and texture in game would look like 1k). I marked most noticeable areas you can fill with little UV islands grouped on top and right edges.
https://i.yapx.ru/NSK82.png

LangMaster 2021-07-22 16:28

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans_Strudel (Post 2212429)
Good model made in such a short time!
But i would suggest make a highpoly model and bake some details for your low poly model - that will save you another 1-2k triangles.
For example these areas marked red do not extrude a lot and at longer distances might start z-fighting, so it would be much easier to just bake them on turret. Turret itself can be optimised with less sides and baked too (for example T-62 turret is about 16 sides round and i can't tell it's sharp, but need to look at topology to be sure ). Green marks areas i would likely delete at all since players would never see it (except you decide to add something interesting like turret knocking out on wreckage geometry). Also you can delete faces on bottom of the turret since they are looking at hull and players would never see them too.
https://i.yapx.ru/NSK8u.png
https://i.yapx.ru/NSK8Q.png

As for UV you shown, there are plenty of free space that can be used for more detailed texture. Less free space on UV the better it will be (2k texture will remain 2k but with a lot of unused space there will be a lot of dead weight and texture in game would look like 1k). I marked most noticeable areas you can fill with little UV islands grouped on top and right edges.
https://i.yapx.ru/NSK82.png


You gotta go a bit slower on me, since i have never touched baking, but i somehow found out that making model is actually an easy job for me, i will try to check out tutorials on youtube about baking stuff, about the green area, i think it should probably stay as i made it because that thing lifts up with the turret depression.
The UV is generated by blender smart uv thingy, it should pack all the models nicely on the uv so it uses the least space, and i really have no clue how am i suppose to put something into these empty places, the only thing really i am missing is the machine gun tripod or whate ever it is, and one more camera on top of the turret but that will be another tris so yeah.

So the ingame models are running 2k texture and you cannot go beyond that?
and how many tris you want this thing to have, as i said earlier it's not like other turrets, this thing looks like your first house in minecraft made out of dirt, mostly turrets are round or just boxy like leo or abrams has.

Hans_Strudel 2021-07-22 17:08

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LangMaster (Post 2212435)
You gotta go a bit slower on me, since i have never touched baking, but i somehow found out that making model is actually an easy job for me, i will try to check out tutorials on youtube about baking stuff, about the green area, i think it should probably stay as i made it because that thing lifts up with the turret depression.
The UV is generated by blender smart uv thingy, it should pack all the models nicely on the uv so it uses the least space, and i really have no clue how am i suppose to put something into these empty places, the only thing really i am missing is the machine gun tripod or whate ever it is, and one more camera on top of the turret but that will be another tris so yeah.

So the ingame models are running 2k texture and you cannot go beyond that?
and how many tris you want this thing to have, as i said earlier it's not like other turrets, this thing looks like your first house in minecraft made out of dirt, mostly turrets are round or just boxy like leo or abrams has.

You can move islands by hand, and Blender honestly have great tools since in 3ds you need to make islands lined up by hand, as for MG - better finish MG and then proceed to UVing, unless you want to make with different texture.

For resolution - no, you can go with whatever resolution you need, so just refer to overall quality of textured model. That's why the less space you have on your UV, the less resolution it would require to make model looks good. Usually 2k is maximum in PR, but plently of textures are 512x512 or 1k (also there are non squared resolutions like 1024x2048 ) . Just keep in mind the less texture size the lighter model will be for game engine and people will less likely CTD when they see your vehicle )).

You can always check in game assets for inspiration and learning.

LangMaster 2021-07-22 17:23

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans_Strudel (Post 2212437)
You can move islands by hand, and Blender honestly have great tools since in 3ds you need to make islands lined up by hand, as for MG - better finish MG and then proceed to UVing, unless you want to make with different texture.

For resolution - no, you can go with whatever resolution you need, so just refer to overall quality of textured model. That's why the less space you have on your UV, the less resolution it would require to make model looks good. Usually 2k is maximum in PR, but plently of textures are 512x512 or 1k (also there are non squared resolutions like 1024x2048 ) . Just keep in mind the less texture size the lighter model will be for game engine and people will less likely CTD when they see your vehicle )).

You can always check in game assets for inspiration and learning.

Oh this is gonna be pain, well, i am gonna try make a high poly model with all the metal nails on it and stuff so my blender blows up, i am gonna try somehow cut the tris for the low poly version which i have no idea how, then i am gonna try to generate a texture with a blender which i have some ideas for, gonna do some final painting with hand and then i am gonna try to put it together and see what kind of mess its gonna make.

anantdeathhawk 2021-07-23 20:38

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Optimization!

https://i.imgur.com/FSfZxHD.png
https://i.imgur.com/ce527rR.png

"remove" the vertices and lines in red, you'll get the idea. They aren't required as they are not helping the model stay in shape.

Look in this tread for how to optimize.
Here

https://i.imgur.com/bSEkkpX.png
https://i.imgur.com/8L3FINi.png

Also check out this T80 WIP.
Here

LangMaster 2021-07-24 20:56

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
No worries, i am using a modifier which removes unnecessary vertices for me from the model, though i still have no idea how to decrease all the tris from the model, i am at 6k right now and the lowest i think i can do is 5k if i do something horrible with the smoke launchers, because there is 16 of them.
As i said earlier this thing looks like your first minecraft house built out of dirt in your first days. It's not round it's not symmetric in any way. It's the most complicated gun turret you can find on this green rock.

Right now i am working on a high poly version so i could put the details and every nail into the texture. Though about the tris i still don't have a single idea.

https://i.imgur.com/iSHedCe.png

LangMaster 2021-07-25 13:01

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Question, can the game actually animate cannons upon shooting, ?

Mats391 2021-07-25 15:45

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LangMaster (Post 2212462)
Question, can the game actually animate cannons upon shooting, ?

Depends what you mean. The barrel can move back and forth due to recoil, but we cannot do the tank-salute for reloading.

LangMaster 2021-07-25 16:04

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats391 (Post 2212463)
Depends what you mean. The barrel can move back and forth due to recoil, but we cannot do the tank-salute for reloading.

Ah sick ! okay alright nice, would love to see this in one as well since i made the barrel separate, can the vehicle move back on recoil? since the MGS is very top heavy it bounces to side to side like a jelly when shooting lol.

Mats391 2021-07-25 17:26

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Yes, our tanks already move due to force of firing.

LangMaster 2021-07-25 17:46

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats391 (Post 2212465)
Yes, our tanks already move due to force of firing.

Ah shit, i am blind then, where is my 1k hours in this game.

LangMaster 2021-07-27 21:12

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Well i was playing around a bit since i kinda finished the high poly model i wanted to try out baking it, i have seem to failed in many ways from youtube tutorials.
https://i.imgur.com/dkamcEb.png
https://i.imgur.com/Wpr0Ej1.png
As you can see from the first image, something is wrong, i have baked the stuff onto other faces.
And the process i went through was wrong and did not even work as well when i tried to follow the tutorials, in the first place i dont need to make materials for the high poly model but if i dont do it i cannot bake it, so i select first the low poly model and then the high, i bake it and it gives me the first image, i can see the details from high in the texture image though.

If i make the material for the high poly model, i select first the high poly to low poly model, i bake it, there are no details seen in the image from the high poly model, and it makes the image texture for the UV High model which is wrong because the UV for the low is totally different. aaaaaaaaaa! But hey i went really far so i am proud of my self, i never expect my self to get to this stage so yeah.

I have thought that the selection of UVs is wrong but it seems to take the low poly model which is good https://i.imgur.com/V7ywU7X.png

LangMaster 2021-07-31 18:17

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
I am down to 5300 tris now.
I have found some modules that a missed so i added them.
https://i.imgur.com/tXnqE7P.png
https://i.imgur.com/IYaEQPp.png
https://i.imgur.com/OeXhjGz.png

LangMaster 2021-08-01 15:48

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Okay so i finally moved forward again, after alot of troubleshooting i managed to bake a proper normal map, for now with the details i have, i will definitely later on do some metal scratches etc so it looks very high detailed.

https://i.imgur.com/TXzdwrP.png
Marked with Red those are the parts that are in the normal map and so it makes the high poly ilusion.

Hans_Strudel 2021-08-01 16:41

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Main gun barrel is still too detailed, 10 sides for such big cylinder is enough to look properly, UV map still has so much empty space. What's the resolution of your normal map and have you tried ambient occlusion map baking yet?

LangMaster 2021-08-01 16:54

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans_Strudel (Post 2212506)
Main gun barrel is still too detailed, 10 sides for such big cylinder is enough to look properly, UV map still has so much empty space. What's the resolution of your normal map and have you tried ambient occlusion map baking yet?

Well i have realized that the baking is a bit glitchy and does not like having multiple different objects next to each other that is why i tried only one part, i am still experimenting for now, but i thought 2048x2048 would be good for everything packed together.

About the uv, well i don't know what you want from me honestly, when you a pack of beers obviously the round base will have space between and there is nothing i can do with it, the uv planner does this for me and i don't think i can do better job than a program.

I really wanted to test this at least becase for a weird reason baking was not working for me and i had alot of glitches, i wanna try some advanced material making with nodes later.

Hokunin 2021-08-02 02:07

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
You could save up a lot of tris number by detaching smoke tubes from that square platforms, making square platform a simple shape with far fewer vertexes. But don't forget to move smoke tube base a bit more into the square platform after detachment, because then in game there might be visual glitches from afar, as if they are floating separately.

As for UV management, you could do it by hand, or use better UV specialized softwares like RizomUV for automated UV placing, it gives best results for auto UV. You have enormous spaces wasted. Those giant holes inside and between big islands could be filled with smaller UV islands, which would give you possibility to increasing overall UVs sizes - which would result in crisper more quality textures for the model, instead of blurred mush.

But all this is just advice, you can do whatever.

LangMaster 2021-08-02 18:44

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokunin (Post 2212508)
You could save up a lot of tris number by detaching smoke tubes from that square platforms, making square platform a simple shape with far fewer vertexes. But don't forget to move smoke tube base a bit more into the square platform after detachment, because then in game there might be visual glitches from afar, as if they are floating separately.

As for UV management, you could do it by hand, or use better UV specialized softwares like RizomUV for automated UV placing, it gives best results for auto UV. You have enormous spaces wasted. Those giant holes inside and between big islands could be filled with smaller UV islands, which would give you possibility to increasing overall UVs sizes - which would result in crisper more quality textures for the model, instead of blurred mush.

But all this is just advice, you can do whatever.

Well i have been told that the individual parts and materials cause additional draw calls and are the biggest bottleneck of the game ? i am not sure if it works the same way as if they are tagged still as one object ?

But if not that would really change alot ot stuff again.

Hokunin 2021-08-03 01:46

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
- you're only gonna detach smoke tubes from the geometry, it doesn't create a new drawcall. Its not like you'll make them a separate object with its own textures.

- also forgot to mention. There must be a small empty space between UV islands, so that textures won't bleed into each other, especially on decreasing texture quality within game settings. In your screens, UV islands almost touching each other.

LangMaster 2021-08-03 18:31

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokunin (Post 2212515)
- you're only gonna detach smoke tubes from the geometry, it doesn't create a new drawcall. Its not like you'll make them a separate object with its own textures.

- also forgot to mention. There must be a small empty space between UV islands, so that textures won't bleed into each other, especially on decreasing texture quality within game settings. In your screens, UV islands almost touching each other.

alright, good to know, that kinda makes a life alot easier.

LangMaster 2021-08-03 22:44

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Seems like my baking works completely fine now, i moved alot of details into the texture it self though i will do alot by hand as well since light and shadows is my skill when it comes to pixel arts so this should be fine as well. I am down to 4400 tris now, i think i might be able to get it down still a little probably, then i will get to change the UV.

https://i.imgur.com/E2ytcvz.png

Hokunin 2021-08-04 01:45

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Did you detach this big flat object from the main mesh? You shouldn't detach it, because its flat and its surface located close to the surface of the main mesh, left like that it would "z-fight" from distance a lot. Also its very big, you'll save up UV space by welding it into the main mesh.

https://sun9-56.userapi.com/impg/aAY...195&type=album

LangMaster 2021-08-05 13:34

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hokunin (Post 2212539)
Did you detach this big flat object from the main mesh? You shouldn't detach it, because its flat and its surface located close to the surface of the main mesh, left like that it would "z-fight" from distance a lot. Also its very big, you'll save up UV space by welding it into the main mesh.

https://sun9-56.userapi.com/impg/aAY...195&type=album

Alrighty, back to the drawing board. lol.

ANW1173 2021-08-11 14:18

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LangMaster (Post 2212554)
Alrighty, back to the drawing board. lol.

maybe this video helps you :)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...5.14.46.05.mp4

LangMaster 2021-08-31 00:22

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Slight upgrade.
https://i.imgur.com/HHSMHGP.png

Mats391 2021-09-01 19:12

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
That UV looks way better! Nicely done!

LangMaster 2021-09-01 21:45

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mats391 (Post 2212831)
That UV looks way better! Nicely done!

Yeah i was looking for something but i cannot seem to find anything, even if you make blender to get the islands so they would waste the least space, i just decided to move them by my self then.

LangMaster 2021-09-03 00:38

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
What are the next steps to make this work ?

Hans_Strudel 2021-09-07 18:46

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LangMaster (Post 2212852)
What are the next steps to make this work ?

Now you need to take a look ay whole model and clean it up from vertexes that don't affect mesh shape or non essential for UV.

For example i don't see any reason to keep these vertexes, because they don't affect form of an object from that perspective:
https://i.yapx.ru/OFNMP.png

UV is great, can't say anything about it i would try to change.

LangMaster 2021-09-08 10:31

Re: (Vehicle) Stryker MGS - M1128 Mobile Gun System
 
https://i.imgur.com/JV1ubBp.png
https://i.imgur.com/03bgnh7.png
https://i.imgur.com/3Xr4f8k.png

Blender modifier does pretty good job at this, though i found some at the handles.


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