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Rating: 10 votes, 3.50 average.
Infantry weapon damage changes
Posted in: Features
Posted 2017-04-23 at 02:13 by M42 Zwilling

The next hotfix, which will be out shortly, will also have some big changes to the infantry weapon meta: kinetic energy (KE) inspired damage settings. I've been collecting ammunition data for PR's factions ever since I joined the team. This will be the first stage of putting it to use.

The final implementation, which will take into account smaller differences in bullet weights and barrel lengths, will take more time. In the meantime, this will have most of the same gameplay impact.

Each weapon will now have a base damage that is typical for its caliber as before, but that damage will be set on hard data - on a typical projectile weight and muzzle velocity for that caliber. I've also made other tweaks to the damage model, such as tweaking body armor effectiveness and damage loss over distance.

In more detail:
  • Base damage will be KE-based. This is an oversimplification, but at least it's based on hard data now. Most factions in PR have heavy enough body armor to completely stop small arms calibers from penetrating anyway - in this case internal trauma would realistically depend on KE. There is room to expand on the modifiers against unarmored targets, but that is much harder to put a number to. 5.56/5.45 will stay the baseline, at least for now - its damage will be about the same as in 1.4.7. Other calibers though be more extreme based on the KE difference compared to 5.56. Full-powered 7.62 will still be a 2-shot kill to the torso with body armor, but a one-shot without. On the other hand, 9mm will be much weaker.

  • Faster damage loss over distance. In reality a 7.62 loses about half of its KE at 400m, and a 5.56 2/3. Previously, most rifle bullets weren't set to lose any damage until they hit 400m, with the damage lost stopping at 1000m. The distance settings for snipers were 2-3x larger. Now the damage loss will always start immediately, and cease when the round would go transonic (this tends to destabilize the bullet - later the bullet will be set to despawn completely at this point to represent that).

  • Removal of the 'skill bonus' to damage for marksmen and sniper weapons. Previously, they had a higher base damage setting compared to to the same caliber when in a normal infantry kit's weapon. This was originally added under the reasoning that they have better training it hitting vital areas. That might make sense for a SWAT sniper, but not in engagements about engagements at several hundred meters against targets with body armor that will prevent a sniper bullet from hitting vital organs at all. Such training should also not help in damage against vehicles, but with almost 2x the base damage in some cases it definitely did in PR.

  • Addition of a new material for the lower torso. Previously the damage modifiers for upper and lower torso (i.e. the hips/upper leg area) were the same, so shooting someone in the upper thigh would do as much damage as a chest shot without armor. Now the amount of damage is between upper torso and limbs.

  • Adjustments to the damage modifiers against body armor. Before modifiers varied depending on the caliber. 7.62 was set to do slightly better against heavy body armor than 5.56, even though neither can penetrate level IV protection. 5.56 was losing some damage against light armor, but realistically a high velocity projectile will overcome a ballistic vest so quickly that almost no energy is lost. Now the system is all-or-nothing. A projectile will do either 1x(base damage) against body armor if it cannot penetrate, and 1.7x, the same as no armor, if it can.

  • Kit changes to unconventional factions to account for the low-caliber damage nerf. Most submachine guns in particular got replaced with larger-caliber weapons in spawn menu kits. These were moved instead to ones that don't need firepower as much, like the engineer.

How these changes will change the meta:
  • Pistol-calibers and buckshot will be worse against modern factions since they all have at least ballistic vests. They are nerfed somewhat against unarmored ones as well.

  • Battle rifles, and with them MEC, will be buffed. A 7.62 hitting the hips/upper leg area, which as I said is not affected by body armor, will take a player down in one hit at close range (out to ~80-90m). Other than personal preference, there were not many reasons to take them before. Generally 5.56 had double the ammo, lower recoil, lower settle time, and a higher fire rate. Somewhat higher damage was the only advantage, but was too small to be worth it - 5.56 was still a 2-shot kill against the unprotected lower torso/legs.

  • Marksmen will be buffed for the same reason.

  • Most snipers will be nerfed against conventional forces - all 7.62 are now a 2-shot against heavy body armor even at point blank since the skill bonus is gone. Only .338 snipers like the C14 and AWM keep one-shot potential and retain it out to significant range. Marksman will be a better choice for most situations.

  • Long-range fire will be less effective overall.

  • Close-range combat in Vietnam and the Falklands will be extremely deadly due to the lack of body armor and abundance of full-power 7.62 rifles.

Obviously this will shake up the balance. Unconventional factions won't have the problem of relying on the nerfed SMGs, but we're expecting some issues elsewhere (I may have to remove some of the M14's on Vietnam for example). Feel free to tell us what you think of the changes and balance once 1.4.8 is out!

Chart:
Not including head, cause that is just as deadly as before.


Updated 2017-04-23 at 14:24 by [R-DEV]Mats391
Views: 46054 | Comments: 64


Comments
Total Comments: 64
  1. Old Comment

    go back to the way it was

    First, let me say great work on everything that is being done. Allot of hard work throughout pr since 0.97, and even before then.

    PPPPLLLLLZZZZZZ go back to old bullet damage before this latest patch it's not my fault new players can't take good use of cover and move tactically. isn't that the whole point of pr is that you want to avoid being shot and thusly killed.

    if you want an in-depth explanation for why you should change back please read.


    I'm so confused by some of these comments about one shot kills being a bad thing... has anyone here ever been shot??? Even if you aren't killed more than likely you are not going to like it and will at the very least fall down in pain and become less of if not a threat at all... at least for a moment. (mmmeeeeeeeedddddiiiiicccc!!!!!)

    so far I've experienced numerous instances where I have acquired multiple hits on the enemy and they still kill me with one shot.... this is possible in real life i know, but when it happens over and over it becomes annoying and frankly I have been playing pr since 0.97 but now I'm thinking of not playing anymore.


    this is just my humble players point of view/opinion but since I started with bf1942

    then played:

    bf1942 mod: Desert Combat (i miss it)

    bf vietnam

    bf2

    then project reality since v0.97

    I have been playing for a long time and consider myself a professional at playing pr tactically.

    this latest patch that nerfs bullets not only takes tactics out of the game, it just makes it less fun when your taking your time to get a kill and even when you get that shot it does nothing and a simple patch can heal the guy right up for him to come back and kill you

    now its no longer project reality


    its more like project frustration and I'm scream ugggghhhhh i miss the days when tactics won out over headshots.....the old system wasn't bad at all.

    I wounded enemy before when trying to kill them and I was okay with that but a shot to the chest/body or head should be an instant kill since there is no way in this game to shoot someone in the leg and incapacitate them (make them fall down) it should be a kill shot especially at least two shots to the body with ak-47 or m16. yesterday i should a mec in the back with m16 50m away twice and he kept running (I know I shot him because I saw blood spurts and he groaned)

    in closing, I'm just merely trying to say if I spend 20 minutes to 30 minutes of a match sneaking around moving from cover to cover and working as a squad I should be able to get that kill when I see I've hit my mark with that patiently taken shot. im not saying make it instant death every time you get hit but go back to the old system it was better these guys saying they like it this way better are just tired of dying from running through the open or dashing straight into the kill zone and getting frustrated that they are good at call of duty but not this game lol
    Posted 2017-04-27 at 22:30 by john... john... is offline
  2. Old Comment
    DrHaX's Avatar
    I would like to ask what gameplay balance aspects were taken into consideration before pushing this update?
    Posted 2017-04-28 at 12:32 by DrHaX DrHaX is offline
  3. Old Comment
    DrHaX's Avatar
    I would like to ask what gameplay balance aspects were taken into consideration before pushing this update?
    Posted 2017-04-28 at 12:32 by DrHaX DrHaX is offline
  4. Old Comment
    tankninja1's Avatar
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mostacho View Comment
    all for the sake of muh realism??
    It's called Project Reality, people have just forgotten how to play INS, not that any servers ever play it anymore.
    Posted 2017-04-29 at 21:11 by tankninja1 tankninja1 is offline
  5. Old Comment
    so in a game where wind, bullet drop and ricochet do not exist youre concerned about the damage of a 144 grain bullet vs a 138 grain bullet and all this wacko stuff. how many years have people been playing this game now? longer than most children in elementary school have been alive on this earth. why do you think changing the most basic part of the game, shooting, is a good idea now? although i sympathize with your desire to make ballistics more realistic it simply is too far of a stretch for the battlefield 2 engine. no matter how much you tweak the damage, accuracy etc. you will NEVER even APPROACH what its like to shoot these weapons at a human being in real life. maybe military grade body armor would stop a burst from a mp5 at some distance, but you better believe youre not just gonna keep walking around like youre terminator and nothing affects you. you would be on your ass gasping for breath.

    unless if you change to another engine what youre trying to achieve will never be possible.

    i'm not trying to be a negative guy but i honestly think that these changes will totally destroy whats left of this game. you should listen to the majority of players and axe this ASAP.
    Posted 2017-04-30 at 05:48 by pognivet pognivet is offline
  6. Old Comment
    Cavazos's Avatar
    Hell yeah! This is so awesome! But I think M14s on Vietnam should be based on how many were available compared to M16s.
    Posted 2017-05-02 at 01:55 by Cavazos Cavazos is offline
  7. Old Comment
    im sorry im done playing pr this damage nerf sucks i barely get any kills the coalition overun all caches and i have to use a whole clip of ak round to wound one american form 50 meters... there used to be a time when deviation made up the game a challange now all coalition forces walk around liek robo cop with a mobile medic to reheal them while opfor get crushed by m16 with acogs.... sorry i give up i tried playing the new patch and gave it a chance pr sucks now later thnx for ruing the fucking game im soo pissed.
    Posted 2017-05-15 at 22:19 by john... john... is offline
  8. Old Comment
    DECKERplus's Avatar
    Personally, I think these changes have really enhanced the game. Compared to other mil-sim games, infantry felt just a bit too squishy. It felt like there was no difference in protection between an unarmored insurgent fighter and a US marine. Now the difference is definitely there and I notice it playing the game.
    Posted 2017-05-18 at 02:26 by DECKERplus DECKERplus is offline
  9. Old Comment
    Hmmm...
    Posted 2017-06-10 at 03:00 by Aniallator Aniallator is offline
  10. Old Comment
    Maybe use an energy of bullets

    Example

    //base on number 30//
    762x39 is about 2200J = 2200/30 = 73
    556x45 is about 1800J = 1800/30 = 60
    9mm is about 600J = 600/30 = 20
    //////
    and see bullets velocity graph of there to make losing damage stage..
    also do with energy may not good for .45ACP lover
    that 9mm have more energy than it,
    but some time 9mm pass through and left an energy same as .45ACP....
    this is horsepower driver logic that the car have more power but not let a power to the ground at all, it up to size of the wheels and the contact area.

    and that you do the target to get more damage is balls...
    it look so funny man..shoot them at the balls it will got damage than thorax with armor
    Posted 2017-06-11 at 18:44 by ALOIXIA ALOIXIA is offline
    Updated 2017-06-11 at 18:52 by ALOIXIA
 

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