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View Full Version : Some General Feedback - Vehicles and Air Assets/Laser Designation


drs79
2011-04-07, 20:05
I wish the option to lase your own target with the gunships, maybe even the same way as the A-10 AGM Missiles lock onto a target.

Pilots should also have the ability to laser designate their own targets, or have a script that the AGM only locks onto a enemy target that has previously been lased (if the laser designator time expires before the plane arrives on scene).

The AAVP is a neat vehicle except it overheats too quickly and maybe there should be an optional right click machine gun (much like the LAV), or keep the load out as is and put a machine gun turret in the cupola or the rear like is seen on the M1A2.

Those are somethings that have popped into my head.

Rudd
2011-04-07, 21:19
I wish the option to lase your own target with the gunships, maybe even the same way as the A-10 AGM Missiles lock onto a target.

to what end? they can hit their own targets...or do you mean the huey gunship?

The AAVP is a neat vehicle except it overheats too quickly and maybe there should be an optional right click machine gun (much like the LAV), or keep the load out as is and put a machine gun turret in the cupola or the rear like is seen on the M1A2.

afaik IRL you select GMG or 50cal, you cant fire both at the same time

never seen a picture of a MG on the rear of the AAV...

FLAP_BRBGOING2MOON
2011-04-08, 06:13
lazes do expire quite quickly, and if its possible an extension on the expiration time would be nice

drs79
2011-04-16, 04:52
@Rudd
- the option of lasing for fixed wing aircraft and rotor wing aircraft (The previous release had attack helos being able to lase targets but it was taken out due to it not working properly right).

If a target is laser designated via the gltd, the lase should stick on the target until it
a) goes out of visual range of the player laser designating it.

b) when the player moves the binocs away from the target it is lazing.

c) if the target is lazed, and a fixed or rotor wing aircraft has a lock, the small square box could change to the larger rectangular box so the SL or Sniper can then move his binocs and laser designate another target.

Addendum to initial post:

Increase of hydra rockets on Kiowa's (14-20), Attack helos (25).

Decrease the flare output for helos (I believe it's around 5 or 6 flares when you activate them?): Suggestion Four flares with increment of 10.

^ I don't fly that much, it's odd for me to even suggest/give feedback for air units but recently I have been trying to practice a lot!! And these are somethings ive noticed recently.

drs79
2011-04-16, 05:15
@Rudd - my mistake about the AAVP-7. I confused my suggestion with a LVPT picture that had what looked like an external mini gun modified on the Right side towards the rear.

Rudd
2011-04-16, 05:50
@Rudd
If a target is laser designated via the gltd, the lase should stick on the target until it
a) goes out of visual range of the player laser designating it.

b) when the player moves the binocs away from the target it is lazing.

c) if the target is lazed, and a fixed or rotor wing aircraft has a lock, the small square box could change to the larger rectangular box so the SL or Sniper can then move his binocs and laser designate another target.



as I understand it, the laser box is just a sticky projectile, think of it like special C4 fired over long range. Because of this I don't think its possible for a) or b) (or is there something in vbf2 that you can drop that disappears when you're Xm away?) C is also undoable afaik, and I wouldn't want that anyway since IRL you're meant to constantly lase a target until the boom afaik, we cant get that system perfect, but its as perfect as it will get imo in this engine.

the best method is to call the strike, then lase when you see the aircraft has started its approach.


Addendum to initial post:

Increase of hydra rockets on Kiowa's (14-20), Attack helos (25).

Decrease the flare output for helos (I believe it's around 5 or 6 flares when you activate them?): Suggestion Four flares with increment of 10.


I don't know anythnig about hydra rocket numbers etc, but please support your suggestion with a source for this kind of thing mate. You're post is well written apart from that missing info.

Psyko
2011-04-16, 11:32
Rudd;1578387']as I understand it, the laser box is just a sticky projectile, think of it like special C4 fired over long range. Because of this I don't think its possible for a) or b) (or is there something in vbf2 that you can drop that disappears when you're Xm away?)

smoke grenade canister

Stoickk
2011-04-16, 15:32
I don't think I like the idea of the attack choppers lasing their own targets. I guess it is a good thing that it doesn't work with the engine. However, I would love it if there were a way for the Kiowas (or equivalent scout class choppers) to lase targets. I do know that the Kiowa is used in this manner in real life, providing laser designation for precision strikes. This would add some variety to the scout class chopper (and give the copilot something else to do with those thermals) instead of having an extra CAS gunship. I will edit this and post a source if need be, and if it is a workable idea. I don't know if it would run into the same issues as the attack choppers lasing their own targets, since the lase would be coming from a different platform.

Rudd
2011-04-16, 16:29
smoke grenade canister

isn't that a culldistance, not causing it to disappear because the player has walked away? its still there in the game world for others nearby to see?

Mikemonster
2011-04-16, 19:33
(Sorry for OT, may be of some interest though).

Rudd you're right, Laser Guided Bombs rely on the targeting lazer being pointed at the target. They are effectively dumb bombs but with guidance that seeks the laze. If the laze is turned off, they just stay in freefall with no further correction of their course.

IRL, when dropped from a fast jet from altitude, they only really need the target to be lazed for the last 20 seconds of flight. (In this way it is also possible to ripple fire several of them at different targets).

Really, LGB's are yesterday's tech. But they are useful in Afghanistan because unlike smart weapons with inertial and GPS guidance, they can be called off if the target is erronious or the situation changes whilst the bomb is in flight.

FLAP_BRBGOING2MOON
2011-04-16, 19:38
However, I would love it if there were a way for the Kiowas (or equivalent scout class choppers) to lase targets. I do know that the Kiowa is used in this manner in real life, providing laser designation for precision strikes.
get in copilot seat, press 2

drs79
2011-04-16, 21:38
Copilot operates the HUD Camera on top with daytime/thermal imaging and also has the availability to laser designate targets for LGM/LG Cannons.

- would make it useful on Kashan, Karbala and other maps it's on.

drs79
2011-04-16, 23:05
Rudd, I'm semi idiot. While reading the info on the apache and the universal weapons systems capability for the Kiowa and the apache, I came to the realization that the number "70" that I came up with is actually part of the hydra rocket name "Hydra 70" D'OH!!!

However upon reading from a source listed below that the apache can carry up to 76 Hydra 70 rockets I feel that the info listed below for Both the Kiowa and the Apache is relevant and ties into my original feedback posting. I will also post further regarding the Havok and the Hydra Hueys if you would like.

Rudd;1578387']
I don't know anythnig about hydra rocket numbers etc, but please support your suggestion with a source for this kind of thing mate. You're post is well written apart from that missing info.

Below are sites which detail weapons systems for the Kiowa and AH-64D Apache, given that the rocket pods which can be carried on both can hold up to 76 rockets which could be overkill for PR the increment especially for the Kiowa could be very useful/positive - 7 is the available amount now even though the current layout for one rocket pod of the AH-64D equals 9 Rockets.

Possible layouts for PR Kiowa's:
2 different variations:
A) currents model machine gun and Rocket Pod (increase rockets to 10 - 12), or switching to Rocket Pod on right Side .50 cal or M134 mini gun on left.

B) Rocket pods on each side (10 - 12 totaling 20 - 24), or .50 cal machine guns on both sides or even .50 cal machine gun and 2-4 AGM Hellfire Laser Targeted (can only be used if lased by troops on the ground).


For the OH-58 Kiowa Warrior regarding weapons systems:
From Wikipedia Bell OH-58 Kiowa (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_OH-58_Kiowa)

Armament

AGM-114 Hellfire anti-tank missiles
Hydra 70 rockets
M296 or M3P .50 cal (12.7 mm) machine gun.


U.S. Helicopter Armament Subsystems (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Helicopter_Armament_Subsystems#OH-6_Cayuse_.28and_MD_500_Defender.29)

Federation of American Scientists :: AH-64 Apache (http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/ah64_apache.html)
From a government accounting office report that has been declassified, GAO.gov.

It is from 1988 but interesting nonetheless:
http://archive.gao.gov/d17t6/136962.pdf

AH-64D Apache:

In looking up the number of rockets that are carried, I have found a source that states that up to 76 rockets from the Hydra 70 weapon system can be equipped on the AH-64D Apache at any given time.

Apache Attack Helicopter (AH-64A/D) - Army Technology (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/apache/)

Boeing AH-64 Apache (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache)

Federation of American Scientists :: AH-64 Apache (http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/ah64_apache.html)

In line with my original feedback post my suggestion as follows is for an increase of Hydra Rockets to 10 - 15 on a side.

I do want to say that 50 Hydra 70 rockets total was a thought but that it would have been probably overkill.

mockingbird0901
2011-04-17, 06:09
Rudd, I'm semi idiot. While reading the info on the apache and the universal weapons systems capability for the Kiowa and the apache, I came to the realization that the number "70" that I came up with is actually part of the hydra rocket name "Hydra 70" D'OH!!!

However upon reading from a source listed below that the apache can carry up to 76 Hydra 70 rockets I feel that the info listed below for Both the Kiowa and the Apache is relevant and ties into my original feedback posting. I will also post further regarding the Havok and the Hydra Hueys if you would like.



Below are sites which detail weapons systems for the Kiowa and AH-64D Apache, given that the rocket pods which can be carried on both can hold up to 76 rockets which could be overkill for PR the increment especially for the Kiowa could be very useful/positive - 7 is the available amount now even though the current layout for one rocket pod of the AH-64D equals 9 Rockets.

Possible layouts for PR Kiowa's:
2 different variations:
A) currents model machine gun and Rocket Pod (increase rockets to 10 - 12), or switching to Rocket Pod on right Side .50 cal or M134 mini gun on left.

B) Rocket pods on each side (10 - 12 totaling 20 - 24), or .50 cal machine guns on both sides or even .50 cal machine gun and 2-4 AGM Hellfire Laser Targeted (can only be used if lased by troops on the ground).


For the OH-58 Kiowa Warrior regarding weapons systems:
From Wikipedia Bell OH-58 Kiowa (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_OH-58_Kiowa)



U.S. Helicopter Armament Subsystems (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Helicopter_Armament_Subsystems#OH-6_Cayuse_.28and_MD_500_Defender.29)

Federation of American Scientists :: AH-64 Apache (http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/ah64_apache.html)
From a government accounting office report that has been declassified, GAO.gov.

It is from 1988 but interesting nonetheless:
http://archive.gao.gov/d17t6/136962.pdf

AH-64D Apache:

In looking up the number of rockets that are carried, I have found a source that states that up to 76 rockets from the Hydra 70 weapon system can be equipped on the AH-64D Apache at any given time.

Apache Attack Helicopter (AH-64A/D) - Army Technology (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/apache/)

Boeing AH-64 Apache (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache)

Federation of American Scientists :: AH-64 Apache (http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/ah64_apache.html)

In line with my original feedback post my suggestion as follows is for an increase of Hydra Rockets to 10 - 15 on a side.

I do want to say that 50 Hydra 70 rockets total was a thought but that it would have been probably overkill.


Just have to say I'm tired right now, so I didn't read your entire post. But we do have two versions of the Kiowa. And Rhino posted in an old highlight or something about a new one, with Hellfires, two per side, so maybe hydra/50 on one, and hellfire on the other side, I don't know.

You'll have to look it up

drs79
2011-04-17, 21:20
Sorry one last correction. 40 - 50 total not 30 (in game the apache has 38 hydra's)

drs79
2011-05-05, 19:56
Can an admin move this to the vehicles sub category of this thread? I think it would be better suited there.

Also I do apologize for all of the correction aspects. The majority of this was done via an Iphone and since I am in fact a new helo pilot user I do know I miscalculated the amount of Apache Hydras which are available.

Hopefully you have seen the corrections amidst the numerous links I have posted.

Jigsaw
2011-05-05, 20:06
Thread moved.

J.F.Leusch69
2011-05-05, 20:29
Rudd, I'm semi idiot. While reading the info on the apache and the universal weapons systems capability for the Kiowa and the apache, I came to the realization that the number "70" that I came up with is actually part of the hydra rocket name "Hydra 70" D'OH!!!

However upon reading from a source listed below that the apache can carry up to 76 Hydra 70 rockets I feel that the info listed below for Both the Kiowa and the Apache is relevant and ties into my original feedback posting. I will also post further regarding the Havok and the Hydra Hueys if you would like.



Below are sites which detail weapons systems for the Kiowa and AH-64D Apache, given that the rocket pods which can be carried on both can hold up to 76 rockets which could be overkill for PR the increment especially for the Kiowa could be very useful/positive - 7 is the available amount now even though the current layout for one rocket pod of the AH-64D equals 9 Rockets.

Possible layouts for PR Kiowa's:
2 different variations:
A) currents model machine gun and Rocket Pod (increase rockets to 10 - 12), or switching to Rocket Pod on right Side .50 cal or M134 mini gun on left.

B) Rocket pods on each side (10 - 12 totaling 20 - 24), or .50 cal machine guns on both sides or even .50 cal machine gun and 2-4 AGM Hellfire Laser Targeted (can only be used if lased by troops on the ground).


For the OH-58 Kiowa Warrior regarding weapons systems:
From Wikipedia Bell OH-58 Kiowa (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_OH-58_Kiowa)



U.S. Helicopter Armament Subsystems (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Helicopter_Armament_Subsystems#OH-6_Cayuse_.28and_MD_500_Defender.29)

Federation of American Scientists :: AH-64 Apache (http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/ah64_apache.html)
From a government accounting office report that has been declassified, GAO.gov.

It is from 1988 but interesting nonetheless:
http://archive.gao.gov/d17t6/136962.pdf

AH-64D Apache:

In looking up the number of rockets that are carried, I have found a source that states that up to 76 rockets from the Hydra 70 weapon system can be equipped on the AH-64D Apache at any given time.

Apache Attack Helicopter (AH-64A/D) - Army Technology (http://www.army-technology.com/projects/apache/)

Boeing AH-64 Apache (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_AH-64_Apache)

Federation of American Scientists :: AH-64 Apache (http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/air/attack/ah64_apache.html)

In line with my original feedback post my suggestion as follows is for an increase of Hydra Rockets to 10 - 15 on a side.

I do want to say that 50 Hydra 70 rockets total was a thought but that it would have been probably overkill.

i hope i can clear this up a bit for you.

the OH58D weapon layout:
http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/ar/rotor/OH-58D.gif
http://www.cavalrypilot.com/weapons/armtcfgs.gif

when it mounts the Hydra 70 rockets, than only launchers with 7 tubes:
http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_OH-58Ds_Kirkuk_Iraq_lg.jpg

the Apache can carry up to 76 Hydra 70 rockets, thats right, but than it uses 4x 19 tube launchers (and no hellfire, because the Hydralaunchers take up all the pylon stations).

it PR we have use a common setup with the inner pylon stations being 19 tube Hydra launchers and the outter pylon stations being Hellfires).
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ah-64-980902-A-2839B-001.jpg
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/apache2.jpg


even on wiki you can find the needed info on the Hydra 70 launchers:
Hydra 70 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydra_70#USA)

Hotrod525
2011-05-12, 23:36
Air Ground Radar may be ? C.A. prove it possible, with some tweak and some Moskill touch it might work properly no ?
M85myxdh7nw
Start at 0:30... Its just a "proof of feasibility"

Mora
2011-05-13, 11:49
What about attaching an laserlock object to the impact of a dummy bullet, which would be on automatic so you need to keep "shooting" for the laser to say.

If this is possible it would probably fix some of the issues.

drs79
2011-05-20, 04:13
Thanks for the reply J.F. My reasoning behind suggesting an increase of hydras for the Kiowa is that it just seems to be lacking some oomph. Maybe there are variants which will be making an appearance. I think a Kiowa with two hellfires and hydras would be really cool.

Or even having the co-pilot operate a HUD which can act as eyes and ears.

^ The above from practicing flying the Kiowa and apache closer to the earth than you would usually see in-game.