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AFsoccer
2010-12-15, 01:46
Project Reality created the Attack and Secure (AAS) mode several years ago and it greatly increased gameplay by creating a more realistic battlefield where teams had to defend their ground while simultaneously attacking the next objective. With the advent of randomized objectives, it also increased re-playability.

However, as maps got bigger, the randomization of objectives starting showing some flaws. For example, how many times have you loaded in, the flag layout pops up and it makes no sense at all? Like this example on Yamalia (4km):

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1126679995_mQTKi-L.jpg

or this example on Fools Road (2km):

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123860666_2Pu7U-L.jpg

These layouts create a battlefield that 1) stretches the team out all over the map, 2) makes it very hard to defend one flag while attacking another on the opposite side of the map, and 3) often leaves squads walking for 10 minutes to reach the battle.

But let's not blame the 4km map...

4km maps vs. 64 players

Most of you know that a 4km map isn't twice as big as a 2km, it's FOUR TIMES as big. So... you could place FOUR 2km maps (such as Fools Road, Iron Ridge, Muttrah, and Operation Archer) all in the same space as one 4km map:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123728718_bz2gL-L.jpg

This kind of size was something never seen in BF2 and the Project Reality team has pushed the game engine past boundaries most thought impassable. And I think most of us would agree that the advantages of a 4km map include:


Less restrictive (fewer out of bounds warnings)
More realistic environment for armor and assets
Encourages more teamwork between squads
Provides more strategic space (for flanking, stealth, etc.)


However, as mentioned above, some of the feedback we've received is that 4km maps are just too big for 64 players, often leading to boredom and long walks without transportation. So what's the answer... where we want all of the advantages of a 4km map without some of the disadvantages?

Current AAS Modes

Before I answer that, let me briefly explain the way Project Reality is currently coded. We basically have three options in the way that objectives are set up:

1. Vanilla BF2:
Every flag is available for capture at any time. Great for small maps but lacks teamwork and realism, since you don't usually defend flags or need to develop a strategy beyond what flag to cap next. (Not used in PR)

Example: Strike at Karkand
http://gfx.battle.no/srvbrowser/maps/bf2/strike_at_karkand.jpg

2. Single sequence:
This works on any map size and was essentially the first Attack and Secure (AAS) mode developed for Project Reality. The mapper designates which flags will be fought over and the team must defend a flag while attacking the next. A small drawback is that the same flags are in play every time the map is played, so there's no variation.

Example: Kashan Desert
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123767967_dA6iY-XL.jpg

3. Random flags:
This option lets the mapper create numerous flags on the map and then when the round starts, a certain number are picked randomly. Secure and defend is still the mode of play, but this option created more re-playability since the same flags aren't fought over every game.

Example: Kozelsk
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123781151_SFmc8-L.jpg

However, as we mentioned above, sometimes the randomization just didn't make sense.

New AAS Attack Routes

With the next version, a fourth option has been added to the AAS system that allows the flags to be laid out in a more logical way. It essentially combines the benefits of "single sequence" and "random flags" into one by creating flag clusters, or randomized attack "routes."

The simplest application of this new coding allows the mapper to set up a "single sequence" route (like on Kashan) but now isn't limited to just one of these routes. If needed, up to 9 routes could be established and the mapper would have complete control over which flags were in each route. For re-playability, the "route" would be picked randomly at the start of the map.

For example, take a look at the mini-map for Shijia Valley (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f380-project-reality-news/91880-project-reality-progress-update-part-2-a.html#post1507013). It's a 4km map that's being finished up for the next release.

With the new AAS routes, you may see this route appear one game:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123893804_cKEEi-L.jpg

and on the next game, you may be playing on a different route, like this:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123893813_abFSS-L.jpg

This allows the mapper to create numerous, pre-planned set-ups. For example, in Route 1 the conflict would be centered around the large city and power plant. In Route 2, the action would focus on the central bridge. Basically, the mapper has total control in setting up a dynamic flag layout, yet the map won't get stale because the route would be picked at random each time the map loaded.

But that's not all...

In addition to creating numerous attack routes, the mapper now has the option of creating random flags either within the route or by zone. For example, let's take a look at Shijia Valley again.

Instead of just creating a handful of attack routes, let's say the mapper also wants to use random flags... but he doesn't want them to spawn all over the place, thereby stretching the team out too much and making it illogical. In this case, the map could be divided into zones.

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123918094_wzBNj-L.jpg

The flag objectives are designated by the white circles but now the mapper has created a north zone (in brown) and a south zone (in green). The flags could be randomized and in one game they appear in the north zone and in the next game they appear in the south zone. Which flags (and how many) actually appear in the picked zone would be random, but at least they won't be stretched out all over the map any more!

Summary

We think these new AAS options will enhance gameplay on large maps by:

Focusing the fight to a smaller area
While still providing the space needed for strategic movement!


It's a fairly minor tweak in terms of coding, but it may have a huge impact on game enjoyment. :)

dbzao
2010-12-16, 14:06
Great overview AFsoccer. ;)

Outlawz7
2010-12-16, 14:07
Lots of text for one extra number in the SGID. :lol:

Adriaan
2010-12-16, 14:13
Really looking forward to seeing this in action, great idea!

sweedensniiperr
2010-12-16, 14:17
and i thought you couldn't improve much more in PR..

Tim270
2010-12-16, 14:20
Brilliant. Simple changes like this in gamemodes extend the life of the gameplay so much.

Bonsai
2010-12-16, 14:20
Sounds interesting...

spawncaptain
2010-12-16, 14:23
Great improvement, my main concern with 4 km maps has been wiped out.

Kain888
2010-12-16, 14:27
Enjoyable read and really good change. :)

Element66
2010-12-16, 14:28
nice should hopefully address some of the problems of 4km maps, and once again Shijia Valley is looking amazing from above

Dougalachi
2010-12-16, 14:30
Can't wait to try it out!

Makikou
2010-12-16, 14:31
Seems absolutely superb, cant wait to get playing on AASv4 maps..

MCI
2010-12-16, 14:42
Looks good, now let's see how it works out. :D

CaptainGasper
2010-12-16, 14:46
This new AASv4 would improve the gameplay on "iron eagle" map, since there's no fight in the town.

Amazing ! Keep it up !

Nugiman
2010-12-16, 15:04
Great idea! Playing on enjoyable 4km maps will getting even more enjoyable now :D

=Romagnolo=
2010-12-16, 15:06
awesome !

iAllex
2010-12-16, 15:20
Shijia Valey looks awesome! one of a kind, tho it's not the first 4 km woodland map, wonder why it feels so...

About AASv4, i think it will have a HUGE impact on gamplay, concentrating the team in one direction is brilliant (more action for those trigger-happy fellas), no more players here and there, all over the map. Can't wait to play this new game mod!

Web_cole
2010-12-16, 15:23
Great improvement, my main concern with 4 km? maps has been wiped out.

Agreed. This is just what was needed.

Well played, sirs :)

Himalde
2010-12-16, 15:34
Great!

Routes + Random AAS ==> Win.

AAS4 might revive some old less popular 4km maps. But watch your flank from now.

What old maps will have this?

Smiddey723
2010-12-16, 15:40
glad to hear this, great change

Hfett
2010-12-16, 15:49
This is a great change.

Who didnt played one Fools Road round with crazy weird flag setup before?

Aquiller
2010-12-16, 15:58
So kewl it makes me wanna go back to Poland and actually play it. :D

maarit
2010-12-16, 16:04
im not sure that im liking this.
my consern is just about hypersuper fob vs fob wars.

ma21212
2010-12-16, 16:07
So AAS3 is not gonna be used anymore?

KEIOS
2010-12-16, 16:07
nice should hopefully address some of the problems of 4km maps, and once again Shijia Valley is looking amazing from above

qft :thumbsup:

dtacs
2010-12-16, 16:22
So AAS3 is not gonna be used anymore?
I too am asking this question after reading this over twice. Soccer you list it as an option, but inherently V4 means its replacing the other one, correct? Is this change really realistic considering the ability to flank and then hold ground is now negated?

You can always flank flags yes, however you aren't capping the flag. I'm all for keeping the fight small, however while this is estimated foresight this is going to encourage armor/infantry/air camping routes from main and not contributing to the objective moreso than it is now.

:|

I guess we'll have to see it in a 64 player environment but even on paper it looks questionable.

Outlawz7
2010-12-16, 16:31
Soccer you list it as an option, but inherently V4 means its replacing the other one, correct?

Incorrect, it is an option as said, the versions don't replace anything, you can still have your "v3" with crazy flags if you like.

DeltaFart
2010-12-16, 16:32
this will be awesome

martinhjerpe
2010-12-16, 16:34
This sure will improve gameplay :D

dtacs
2010-12-16, 17:03
Outlawz;1513218']Incorrect, it is an option as said, the versions don't replace anything, you can still have your "v3" with crazy flags if you like.
'You' as in the mapmaker, or will there be two different versions of the map available?

Jigsaw
2010-12-16, 17:44
'You' as in the mapmaker, or will there be two different versions of the map available?

That's up to the individual mapper and whether they decide to do both AASv3 & v4 gamemodes, potentially utilising the "Standard", "Alternative" and "Infantry" options.

Really though I can't see how that's a negative change, you can still flank very effectively and in exactly the same way as you would in v3, the only real difference is that you won't have to troop from one side of the map to the other to attack a flag that makes no logical sense whatsoever.

It is worth noting that the entire map will still be open to you, just that the flags will be in some kind of logical order.

Fantastic work.

Zrix
2010-12-16, 17:56
This is highly needed, good job :)

CBT02
2010-12-16, 17:57
amazing change for the better of the gameplay!! very nice work guys.

Zyco187
2010-12-16, 18:09
hell yeah will be looking forward to this

Zoddom
2010-12-16, 18:14
omg i jsut love the devs!
tahts exactly the change i always imagined and thought it HAS to get ingame sometime !

BRILLIANT!

Wakain
2010-12-16, 18:30
very interesting, I agree this will probably make 4km maps much more enjoyable!

Fuzzy McDoodle
2010-12-16, 18:40
Wow, sounds great. Having a huge map with 5 or so different combinations of flag objectives could have a huge impact on replayability (even though I don't mind playing Muttrah or Kashan 1000 times)

Bartholomäus
2010-12-16, 19:17
This is realy a good idea and i hope it will bring mor fun to Pr.

Gozjh
2010-12-16, 19:38
Wait, so people don't like sight seeing walking across a 4k map? shocking...

Great job Dev's, it will definatly speed up gameplay while still keeping good size. I have to admit, the map looks kinda weird with all objectives on one side, but that will wear off after I play a round of this (and what does a funny looking map have to do with anything?)

Hotrod525
2010-12-16, 20:22
It also had QUITE alot of realism in the sense that now they will be a "pre-planed" strategy. No more ge-gol-fok strategy that spread the team in all little team disperce in the vast open field.

Peeta
2010-12-16, 20:54
Thank god, one of the biggest issues in PR was the random flags. Random flags, especially Fools Road, were always like wtf....

<3

ShockUnitBlack
2010-12-16, 22:30
Great idea, will improve gameplay significantly

Chu
2010-12-16, 23:43
I'm really excited about this change. Can't wait to try it. =]

Zulnex
2010-12-17, 00:32
Outstanding idea.8-) Can't wait to try it out.

Pvt.LHeureux
2010-12-17, 00:48
I want this now! :D

Zyco187
2010-12-17, 01:17
When will we get this ? Please dont tell me next PR release which is atleast 5 months away..

Zach1923
2010-12-17, 01:31
Great change, it should improve game play a lot. Why cant it just replace AAS v3?

That new map looks amazing, reminds me of something from vanilla BF2 but way better. Cant wait to try it out.

HAVOC
2010-12-17, 02:09
Genius!

=Toasted=
2010-12-17, 04:15
What a brilliant idea, seriously, the ingenuity of the devs is shocking sometimes.

Excavus
2010-12-17, 05:55
Good work. I hope too see this applied to existing maps like Qinling, Silent Eagle, and Kozelsk.

162eRI
2010-12-17, 07:10
That's brilliant! I'm sure it's really going to improve the gameplay and all. Indeed, huge 4km maps were boring and unpleasant to play for the reasons cited in the news. But with this new attack routes, it's really gonna improve the gameplay.

Glad as well to see a new nice map... at least an almost real Chinese map and not some random crap (I'm wondering what happened with all the Chinese statics you were working on?). With each release, we got more and more nice maps: that was urgent as most of the maps, even if they are interesting to play, are really ugly. No offense, but you must admit that the new maps, especially when they got new statics and a nice texturing work, are far more beautiful than the older ones ;-)

My last hope, seeing the screens in the news: please, oh please, change this ugly rainbow militia flag! How in the world a flag would look like this?! I remember when you choose to replace the Chechen one, but this yellow/pink gayish flag is really out of place >_< Please, there are thousands of flags in the world, can we have something better? I'm sure you would ask the community for a new flag, you will get many nice propositions!

Redamare
2010-12-17, 07:50
wow thats pretty interesting :) i like it . . .Next we should try and workon a way to do this but with individual capzones within the Zones alot like how the new ARMA capping process is going to be set up . . capture 3 zones in a cluster then move on to the next three :)

NyteMyre
2010-12-17, 08:19
I thought the dutch forces were working on AASv4 for the Raid at Dawn (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-pr-highlights/87936-dutch-forces-raid-dawn.html) map.


MAPS
NAME: Raid at Dawn
SIZE: 512x2
TYPE: AASv4
MAPPER: [R-DEV]AfterDune, Sluismaster
% COMPLETE: 99%

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pL2Xn-Zha2kfS9o0NGPzyOw

Gore
2010-12-17, 08:20
Very nice my friend!

cyberzomby
2010-12-17, 08:49
VERY cool update :D

ChallengerCC
2010-12-17, 14:03
Good idea guys ! :razz:
I hope this will not be to mutch action. If the Points are to close this could happen, and transportvehicles are not used or wasted, because of no value.
Also my opinion is, to limit the FireBases to max 2 and reduce the points from building them. On the endscreen everytime the Squad with the most FB build wins, even if they don for flaggs, fighting against the other side nothing.
(You even have less points if you rule the Map get all Flaggs and even kill all enemys. Building 2 FB gave you more points in 10 min) :-)
And i feel that FB have not the value they should have, most time the will be build and no one defending them.
Fight against the crapy action! The most publisher out there have surrendert and see only money in there eye?s.

CarnivorousVulgaris
2010-12-17, 14:07
:shock: :twisted: :thumbsup:

An image says more then a thousand words!

Tarranauha200
2010-12-17, 18:08
Nice change, no more running from edge of map to other just to realise enemy have capped previus.
Also more realistic not to have objectives in order where you go from other side of the map to other all the time.
Offtopic: Isn`t it Assault and Secure?: Offtopic
Project Reality : Realistic Gaming Redefined - Features (https://www.realitymod.com/features.html)

iAllex
2010-12-17, 19:12
Offtopic: Isn`t it Assault and Secure?: Offtopic
Project Reality : Realistic Gaming Redefined - Features (https://www.realitymod.com/features.html)

?

A.A.S. v4= Assasult And Secure version 4.

Tarranauha200
2010-12-17, 20:09
?

A.A.S. v4= Assasult And Secure version 4.

He said attack and secure,
Lets get back on topic

Acemantura
2010-12-17, 20:09
AFsoccer;1512058']4km maps vs. 64 players

Most of you know that a 4km map isn't twice as big as a 2km, it's FOUR TIMES as big. So... you could place FOUR 2km maps (such as Fools Road, Iron Ridge, Muttrah, and Operation Archer) all in the same space as one 4km map:

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123728718_bz2gL-L.jpg



Does anyone else see a Map Night here?

edit: I'm Off to the Suggestion Forum!

edit: nm

Claymore
2010-12-18, 06:12
This looks like one hell of an improvement, great job DEVs.

VapoMan
2010-12-19, 17:14
This going to make it so much better. :)

qs-racer
2010-12-19, 19:12
AAS v4 and the new Shijia map look awesome, great job guys ;)

Daishi2442
2010-12-20, 00:19
Can't wait for the new AAS variant. Quick question though. Will AASv3 be removed entirely in preference of v4, or will some maps still be stuck with non-sequential flag locations?

AFsoccer
2010-12-20, 01:07
AASv4 adds a fourth option. So yes, the previous options are still available to mappers.

The_MDexs
2010-12-20, 08:53
looking great

volks
2010-12-20, 11:46
Thats a proper work. Thanks mate this will help us get rid of weird Flags appear in PRT matches which destroys many battle plans :d

Shovel
2010-12-20, 15:01
This is awesome. It should have it's own news post.

Euro_Aim
2010-12-20, 20:30
Will it not leave huge map parts empty when everyone follows the line?

Archer[NX-01]
2010-12-20, 23:42
YES!! This is great I like the big maps before AND NOW THERE BIGGER!!! WOO!!!

mangoman65
2010-12-21, 09:26
Sounds good to me, you could always place more vehicles such as the FAV to make sure that transport is readily available for soldiers so the 10 minute journey only takes 5 minutes or less.

Just a suggestion

Tarantula
2010-12-21, 11:45
creation of supply routes and actual ambushes might b upon us

AquaticPenguin
2010-12-21, 14:44
Will it not leave huge map parts empty when everyone follows the line?

It will, but assets will have a lot of manuveuring room to duke it out for superiority. At the moment I rarely see tanks following the map layout, they generally seem to fight it out until the other sides tanks are down and then start raining down shells on the infantry, with attack routes this will mean the tanks have more manuveuring room to fight. The infantry also have clear objectives and won't end up fighting in the middle of nowhere. The result will be more focused infantry action, as well as more focused battles between assets. Imo it will create more of a frontline, so you won't have tanks straying behind enemy lines because there will be little benefit.

General Dragosh
2010-12-21, 19:47
Whoah O,O *dowantdowantdowantdowantdowantdowantdowantdowantd owantdowant*

Von_Emmy
2010-12-22, 22:19
Great idea... thx for support AFsoccer

rough77
2010-12-24, 11:18
great idea - looking forward to it

Dewi
2010-12-24, 23:01
Can't wait to see long convoys of vehicles and infantry heading to each objective along the roads. And more importantly, seeing them getting ambushed! :)

DTM
2010-12-27, 10:31
Awesome. The teamplay will be much better with that kind of routes 8-)

Click
2010-12-27, 18:29
Looks good and it will hopefully mean more fights over an objective.

guru951
2010-12-28, 16:57
sweeeet. great work as always. Thanks for making it even more enjoyable, once again. Can't wait to work with this.

tatne
2011-01-05, 23:52
This is going to be epic!

Psyko
2011-01-06, 00:18
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123893804_cKEEi-L.jpg
took me a few days to realize this but.......... that is......a kick ass map!

Arc_Shielder
2011-01-06, 13:40
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123893804_cKEEi-L.jpg
took me a few days to realize this but.......... that is......a kick ass map!


Same here. I've never been so excited by looking at a mini-map before. With this new system (who seems far more logical and interesting) it's going to kick ass.

Can't wait.

MCI
2011-01-06, 13:57
The best thing about this drawn out route is that people will actually move to the orange assault marker instead of wandering off.

RELEASE_THE_KRAKEN
2011-01-07, 17:30
I want to see this map NOW!!

http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/1123728718_bz2gL-L.jpg

Jafar Ironclad
2011-01-07, 20:39
Operation Iron City Road?

SeanRamey
2011-01-12, 04:25
AWESOMENESS!!! Finally I won't have to go all over the flippin map! Thank you!

Threedroogs
2011-01-12, 21:34
sounds great! hopefully it's not too much trouble to go back and add this to the current 4km maps.

K_Rivers
2011-01-14, 15:45
ive got a feeling that this will increase the replayability ten fold, making each game on the same map unique from one another, PR already has this in its favour and im sure with V4 this will become more so, and hopefully it'll introduce more 4km maps into server rotations.
one thing im hoping this will do is intensify the battles to a smaller region, somewhat channeling the battle, and making it more immersive.

Smegburt_funkledink
2011-01-14, 16:16
took me a few days to realize this but.......... that is......a kick ass map!

It really is an awe inspiring map that seriously has raised the bar when it comes to 4k map quality. AFsoccer has truly earned his R-Dev status. :)

Montgunnery
2011-01-16, 09:23
Absolute Genius, you guys have really pushed the BF2 engine to the next level.
As for the 4km maps being boring, if assets weren't left abandoned in all 4 corners of those maps, and they were handled the way they the PR devs intended then there would be enough transport to go around. Personally i love the big maps for the fact you can hide in a bush surrounded by enemy and not one knows your are there :lol:.
Anyways thanks devs for your hard work and commitment on this wonderful mod

Regards

Shovel
2011-01-23, 01:29
Will there be corresponding tutorials for mappers after the release?

AFsoccer
2011-01-23, 02:44
Will there be corresponding tutorials for mappers after the release?

Definitely. Once we've determined that there are no bugs or side effects with the coding, we'll put a tutorial together. :)

vishuddaxxx
2011-01-23, 12:14
hello, ok so my thoughts are that; is nt it realistic that players should have to travel long distances to get to next flag, to combat this we have transport choppers and apcs.

I think that this is a step to get the game more arcadish and fast flowing rather than tactically more slower like in ARMA 2..

Shovel
2011-01-23, 14:04
AFsoccer;1535484']Definitely. Once we've determined that there are no bugs or side effects with the coding, we'll put a tutorial together. :)

Thats great news! I am already working on a map.:-o

dsi1
2011-01-23, 19:38
hello, ok so my thoughts are that; is nt it realistic that players should have to travel long distances to get to next flag, to combat this we have transport choppers and apcs.

I think that this is a step to get the game more arcadish and fast flowing rather than tactically more slower like in ARMA 2..

I think it is more 'arcadey' that an army would go in a zig-zag line to reach the enemy instead of attacking in the most direct way possible. Look at the Yamalia map, what good reason is there for going from Kilo to Foxtrot instead of Kilo to Alpha?

WeeGeez
2011-02-10, 22:00
I like this alot :-)
I can still remember when AASv3 was first introduced.. alot of confusion iirc


and nice map aswell whoa