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sir_quacksalot
2010-11-18, 08:39
Two things I would really like to address and I think are very possible to see implemented in the last few updates. One if you could make the tracers for the .50/mini gun more visible that would be great. It's pretty hard to see the tracers as they are and I'm pretty sure you've done that with the ground .50s already so I doubt it would be hard to add. Also if you could increase the round spread on the gun that would be good too. as it stands for those guns now you pretty much have to spear your target dead on to get a kill. These guns are pretty devastating in real life. And in this game it is difficult just to put a round through infantry making the only effective weapon to deal with infantry your rkts. If there was more of a cone of fire than a laser stream it would make it a lot more effective of a weapon. Not a massive cone but having some round spread would be very useful.

Raufbold
2010-11-18, 10:24
I agree, right now the .50 is more like a laser.

sir_quacksalot
2010-11-18, 10:52
Exactly. And realistically the .50/Mini Gun is an area effect weapon. right after the round leaves the barrel all kinds of things are working on it. Not just gravity but it also has to leave the rotor disk which causes all kinds of craziness to effect the trajectory of the round. If you ask a Blackhawk crew chief you'll even find out that rounds will actually curve up or down depending on which side the M240B is on. But I just want to see these weapons being a more effective system than they are. Right now, they are nearly useless for engaging infantry on the ground which is exactly what they are good for in real life. Once the Kiowa or the LB runs out of rkts there is almost no reason to stick around in a infantry gun fight since the only thing you can do is kill the odd man each pass which leaves you exposed to the enemy that much longer.

RHYS4190
2010-11-18, 11:25
Agreed, but i find it not just the 50cal version the mini gun's are not much better surprisingly.

Himalde
2010-11-18, 12:09
I don't think they are meant as attack choppers. Use them to laze for the attack chopper (yes this requires two in the scout chopper+ the crew in the attack choppers). This way the attack choppers can stay safe, while still being able to scout and laze enemies from the air. The 50 cals are more then good enough if you should happen to stumble upon an enemy attack chopper RTBing at low altitude.

sir_quacksalot
2010-11-18, 13:35
Those weapon systems are not at all meant for AA engagements. They were installed on aircraft as an excellent soft target engagement system (i.e. infantry/unarmored vehicles). They may work for your errant helicopter as well but the way that they fire is not realistic in game and make them an ineffective weapons system at best. I don't know how many helicopters you've been around or how many machine guns you've ever fired but I have shot a few and I work on Kiowa's everyday and they do not shoot like they do in game. I'm not asking for a dramatic change to the game just a wider bullet dispersion so that the aircraft can more effectively engage targets on the ground. Also Kiowa's are quite often employed to take out targets of opportunity. That is why they put guns, rockets, and missiles on them. Real Kiowa's fly with Hellfires too. And if you ask the Dev team they plan to add a HF variant eventually too.

Celestial1
2010-11-18, 14:25
Agreed. Hydra deviation increased their effectiveness against soft targets, deviation on the MGs would increase their effectiveness as well, I would think.

Goes for all scout choppers; make them a bit less effective against attack helis, but much more effective against ground targets.

sir_quacksalot
2010-11-18, 16:11
The intent of a machine gun on the helicopter isn't for AA engagements anyway. It's for ground engagements. There are very few maps that have scout helis and attack helis and if air engagements were a big threat in real life they would have kept mounting Stingers on the Kiowa's. Realistically, all machine guns are going to have round deviance out of the barrel. which should also include the cannon's on Attack helicopters too.

Jaymz
2010-11-18, 16:18
There is deviation on 50's but it's not that much. An increase might be in order (especially for an M296 or an M3P).

Celestial1
2010-11-18, 18:12
The intent of a machine gun on the helicopter isn't for AA engagements anyway. It's for ground engagements. There are very few maps that have scout helis and attack helis and if air engagements were a big threat in real life they would have kept mounting Stingers on the Kiowa's. Realistically, all machine guns are going to have round deviance out of the barrel. which should also include the cannon's on Attack helicopters too.

Yes, I was agreeing with you.

I believe the cannons on the attack helicopters all have substantial deviation, from what I recall.

sir_quacksalot
2010-11-19, 06:13
From talking with my pilots a realistic bullet dispersion would be 10ft at 1000m. It's all due to all kinds of things like the aircraft vibrating and aircraft yaw from firing the gun and such. Also if you can change the gun from currently using the Minigun from the little bird to using something like the ground .50 it would be a lot closer to the actual deal. The rate of fire on these guns is close to 500-600 rounds/min with the M296 and 900-1200 rounds/min with the M3P where as the M134 minigun shoots upwards of 2000 rounds/min.