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LegioX
2010-11-16, 02:50
Many people have different styles of leading, but I haven't seen this thread. So o get mutual benefits, pls share your squad leading strategies.
Here's mine: I've only been a SL 4 times, but this is what I like to do
Divide squad into fireteams
F1 - specialist and grenadier/lat/hat
F2 - AR and marksman/rifleman
F3 - me and medic.
I keep my gltd out for most of the time so I can spot for my team and rapidly give distance to grenadier, who will almost at all times have his grenades equipped except cqb cases. I mean after all, you have 5 people with guns and more specialized roles. The SL is not the shooter but the leader and intel guy.
I'm also pretty strict with movement, I tell people b4 we Start that we move slow and careful while covering each other when nearing objective. When I say "stop and cover" I tell them I expect a 180 deg arc of fire and tell everyone to announce their sectors.
Back to using fireteams, I think they are extremely useful because you can immediately tell one to cover X degree and the other to flank. Usually when not in combat I use a lot of formations and spacing , because there's always that one noob who's goes like "yeah it looks pretty clear I think I'm gonna move 50m ahead and get sniped"
Record: so far, I got 4600 on a terrible game where we got whooped like 250-0, and to my best which was 9870 on I think iron eagle, we won 27-0. Lead squad XD.

Tim270
2010-11-16, 12:01
- Tell the squad where I want them to spawn.
- Assign a Medic and a AR kit.
- Tell the squad If you take a sniper I will kick you, but you are free to grab a GL/LAT.
- Tell them what the plan is/what vehicle to get in.

Basic rule of thumb I go by is always try and be in possession of a logistic truck as its your teams most valuable asset. Never build firebases on flags (within reason). Building 2 firebases is better than one. Building one on the flag for a forward spawn that might go down is ok if you build a backup one that is offset quite far from the flag.

Watch what the rest of your team is doing and try to find a position to fulfil. I.e defence or attacking. Watch your squads KDR after getting in contacts and if you are building up a big negative one break off engaging and defend. Attacking indefinitely nearly always costs more tickets.

Tell other SLs what you plan to do every now and them. i.e 'Squad 3 (me) will defend north city'. Keep comms with the commander if you have one. Follow his orders if you get them, or if you disagree with them offer him an alternative instead of just refusing.

I lead from the front of the squad. Show them where you want them to go or generally people just start wandering off and get killed. Keep nagging them if they start to do their own thing or just kick them. While staying alive is important as a SL dont be afraid to get into the fight. You have a very versatile kit for combat. Main weapon, side arm, frags and 3 pads.

Personally I am not really to bothered by formations or squad layout as such as long as they dont bunch up or stop following each other. I usually try to keep the medic right behind me so I know where he is. I find people just forget who is in what fireteam and it all just becomes convoluted when people are trying to focus on being in the right place and following the right guy instead of focusing on combat.

The AR is your main weapon in the squad. When you get into a firefight assign him a good, but potent spot to support the squad. Do not let him run in close, he should be getting kills from a stationary position.

When attacking flags remeber that you are fighting for firebases if you want to keep the flag. The enemy will most likely have a firebase supporting the flag you are attacking. It ends up a battle of attrition if you just keep attacking head on in a steam of enemy reinforcements. Flank, find the fob and then circle back and attack the flag. Its kinda impossible to hold a flag with no reinforcements.

Keep watching your map to read the battle. Is my team losing in KDR but capping more flags? is my team going to get capped out with its current deployment? You need to keep track this all the time and manoeuvre to a position that will help your team the best. If you are on a flag that is not in play and will not be, dont bother just fighting for the sake of fighting. Disengage and go for a objective.

My personal preference is always mechanized infantry with something fast like a BTR-80 in its own squad.

BloodBane611
2010-11-16, 12:05
Moved to correct section

Tte.oteo
2010-11-17, 22:43
-Keep watching your map to read the battle. Is my team losing in KDR but capping more flags? is my team going to get capped out with its current deployment? You need to keep track this all the time and manoeuvre to a position that will help your team the best. If you are on a flag that is not in play and will not be, dont bother just fighting for the sake of fighting. Disengage and go for a objective.

This is the most important work of the SL, u can make some tactics before the combats with ur clanmates on training sessions, u can slect the formations and have a lot of ways to react on a firefights...


But if u dont know read the map and the game... IMHO ur not a SL. And this only can do with too many hours of duty.

Raufbold
2010-11-17, 23:00
Reading the map is usually the work of a commander. i give give tactical orders, try to spot, keep the squad coherent, healthy and keep urging the squadmates to spot before shoot etc. Fireteams didnt work that well because they tend to fall apart under fire and most of the publick players don?t have the practice or discipline to keep formation.

LegioX
2010-11-19, 02:41
Yeah its hard when theres no commander and public players are 12 yo boys....

goguapsy
2010-11-20, 02:05
Guys, as a SL, what you need to check the map is to see where should your squad be to attack some place...

You know, about positioning, I mostly plan to think as it was AAS (including in insurgency). What I mean is: If you were the enemies... where would you have your HMGs pointed towards?

Well positioned HMGs can take about 180 degrees of cover... So you really gotta think 3D vision... Which side will you attack (2D) and which height will you be?? That might be higher... that might be lower!

About bunching up, guys... Something I noticed is... speed is of the essence. What do I mean with that is actually. If you can be quick, be quick. But ONLY if you can be successful as that. Sometimes "Slow is smooth and Smooth is fast". But other times "Move as one" (literally, bunch up a LOT) might work depending on your strategy.

What I mean... Analyze the situation. I hate planning too much stuff, so this is what I do (considering I ain't doing a FOB):
Insurgency: (if you weren't already attacking a possible cache location) Cache reveiled. If it's a city, move up close, on the side you do think there wouldn't be any resistance (ie. Unexpect place). Rooftops? Ditches? A damn WALL?

Get your squad together. "I think that's the building the cache will be in". Now, it's all situation-dependant. Will you take a building next to it to upress the other one? Or (this is what I love the most): Bunch up behind one wall. Move in as ONE when you think no one is looking. If anyone opens fire at you (or someone in your squad accidently fires), ask the AR to start surpressing everything... and weapons free.

Or you might just rope up through the wall to the 3rd floor window... Were you prepared for that?


In AAS, you get the attack flag. Where would you guys attack West City from, anyway, if you were USMC? Odds are... N, NW or NE. E or W perhaps. S? Highly unlikely. What the hell do you do? Just hide to through the buildings. Set up AR + grenadier/marksman/wtv and the rest move up to the building where the enemies are wholed-up in. Move in. If 1 shot is fired... Unleash hell.


But make sure you communicate a lot. I mean, a LOT. And if you have a sexy voice, that's even better.

Bunnyman
2010-12-17, 15:37
Isn't squad leading about tactics not strategy? I always considered strategy to be the planning of the big picture, the tactics is the how/the carrying out of drills

dtacs
2010-12-17, 15:44
Isn't squad leading about tactics not strategy? I always considered strategy to be the planning of the big picture, the tactics is the how/the carrying out of drills
If you're in the right place at the right time small unit tactics are negated.

I always get the squad to aim up enemies and fire as a group because we were in the right place, an alternative to that situation is meeting them in a head-on confrontation and basically everything goes to shit with people just shoot till its last man standing.

People can claim the success of 'fire and movement' and formations but down to brass tax none of it works.

gazzthompson
2010-12-17, 16:47
Isn't squad leading about tactics not strategy? I always considered strategy to be the planning of the big picture, the tactics is the how/the carrying out of drills

As a squad leader in a normally commanderless team, you have to think about the big picture. Play off your other squads, do stuff for the team...

Bunnyman
2010-12-17, 17:00
It's true if you are playing without a clan team then a SL is going to have to be a commander in his own right, but then I find in those cases getting a squad to follow orders or act as a unit is not very easy.

dtacs, that sounds like good tactics to counter an advance, but bounding is just common sense. It has to be better than the whole unit moving and firing at the same time, or a random running around. I don't think it's fair to say it doesn't work. My point of view is that the OP applies to a clan team, not individual players. In the case of independent units then there is no real way to carry out drills anyway.

Fire and movement and formations can be used in head-on fighting, that doesn't really have much to do with it IMO. Nor is fire and movement an issue even if your enemy's squad is in the right place- that is just dealing with a counterattack, defence or ambush. Drills are there to deal with any eventuality as a matter of procedure. Fire and movement allows you to take on any enemy whilst moving backwards, forwards, sideways, up or down. It is firing as a group. A clan team that just relies on being in the right place at the right time is a bit of a lucker approach and is really just a loose way of hoping you take on the enemy and win- it's not really outwitting the opposing squad or the squad leader.

Since the OP was talking about more advanced stuff like placement of units/squad members and approach to different scenarios I reckon drills-small unit tactics are pretty key here. I think a lot of people here would disagree with you that drills don't work- most clans and all the MilSim clans are based on that.

lromero
2010-12-17, 21:01
If you're in the right place at the right time small unit tactics are negated.

I always get the squad to aim up enemies and fire as a group because we were in the right place, an alternative to that situation is meeting them in a head-on confrontation and basically everything goes to shit with people just shoot till its last man standing.

People can claim the success of 'fire and movement' and formations but down to brass tax none of it works.

It happens sometimes with pubs. My sql had us doing bounding overwatch to cover while under fire from the castle(Canadian INS map). Then we got pinned down on top of the mountain from the whole enemy team firing at us from the cache. So we peeled over to better cover and held out there, while rpgs were being fired at us and eventually mortars that luckily landed behind us(before .95).

dtacs
2010-12-17, 23:54
dtacs, that sounds like good tactics to counter an advance, but bounding is just common sense. It has to be better than the whole unit moving and firing at the same time, or a random running around. I don't think it's fair to say it doesn't work. My point of view is that the OP applies to a clan team, not individual players. In the case of independent units then there is no real way to carry out drills anyway.
Allow me to educate you. In PR, suppression and the avoidance of fire due to fear of being hit is absolutely non existent. Conventional soldiers are taught to avoid fire as they would be killed or wounded causing more stress. As for players in PR, dying is just a setback as you can respawn in less than a minute, and only lose at the most 2 tickets. This causes stupid acts of moving around corners to try and get a lucky shot at an enemy that is often watching it, often resulting in the lucky shot working.

It is these exact fears of death which negate any sort of formation, as when the shit hits the fan, formations expect the enemy to move in a certain manner, but in PR, they can even pop up and fire straight at the formation without being in any sort of cover. I've seen an arrowhead formation in the bunkers on Kashan killed by a single SAW which was behind them, which is indicative of how much of a waste of time it is.


Fire and movement and formations can be used in head-on fighting, that doesn't really have much to do with it IMO. Nor is fire and movement an issue even if your enemy's squad is in the right place- that is just dealing with a counterattack, defence or ambush. Drills are there to deal with any eventuality as a matter of procedure. Fire and movement allows you to take on any enemy whilst moving backwards, forwards, sideways, up or down. It is firing as a group. A clan team that just relies on being in the right place at the right time is a bit of a lucker approach and is really just a loose way of hoping you take on the enemy and win- it's not really outwitting the opposing squad or the squad leader.No shit its firing as a group. I've lead squads for coming on 2 years now and I've developed a system just as everybody else has, knowing it works, I'm not going to add in a tactic that whilst realistic is utterly inneffective at stopping the spontaneity of PR.

Since the OP was talking about more advanced stuff like placement of units/squad members and approach to different scenarios I reckon drills-small unit tactics are pretty key here. I think a lot of people here would disagree with you that drills don't work- most clans and all the MilSim clans are based on that.Nope. What is key is getting in without being seen or completely avoiding contact. Preparing for the worst with time-taking formations and using fire and movement drills is essentially a misallocation of resources when you could be getting closer to the objective or scouting it out instead of telling the squad 'walk like this'

To disengage from the enemy you just run. Don't bother firing, because when you fire at him, hes not going to keep his head down. A favoured tactic when behind a chest-high wall is to pop up and down really quickly taking pop shots each time, coming from vBF2 it works very well and makes the suppression effect futile.

Overall firing drills fall into the same category as guides like these (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f143-squad-leader-tactics/83585-project-reality-transformational-leader.html) , overthinking it and re-inventing the wheel.

Its counterproductive, pretentious and illogical for a video game.

Bunnyman
2010-12-18, 07:24
Your tone is pretty unneccessary mate. You're on 11

Just because players don't actually die or feel pain doesn't mean you can't surpress them, how many times have you seen a ground vehicle or helicopter panic or move suddenly to avoid using it's unimportant ticket when under fire? 'Walk like this' or 'place our transport helicopter behind an attack helicopter' isn't pointless if it has a practical effect on your survival -a squad doesn't want to get wasted in one attack whether its running around or in a vehicle- regardless of how far they are from their spawnpoint.

Running from the enemy is fine but you risk getting cut down, fire and movement allow you to reduce the threat or the effect of the enemy's fire whilst trying to save some of your team (those who are running). Whether or not you are surpressing the enemy unit or killing them. The fact that people do hide behind walls popping up is evidence of them under surpression, they aren't as capable of targetting the enemy as if given time without being under fire.

It's not a misallocation of resources, time or energy if you are a well-rehearsed team. If you are in pubs I can see why doing it would be counterproductive, pretentious and illogical.

It seems you are basically saying that MilSim is pointless

Wo0Do0
2010-12-29, 05:08
Allow me to educate you. In PR, suppression and the avoidance of fire due to fear of being hit is absolutely non existent. Conventional soldiers are taught to avoid fire as they would be killed or wounded causing more stress. As for players in PR, dying is just a setback as you can respawn in less than a minute, and only lose at the most 2 tickets. This causes stupid acts of moving around corners to try and get a lucky shot at an enemy that is often watching it, often resulting in the lucky shot working.

It is these exact fears of death which negate any sort of formation, as when the shit hits the fan, formations expect the enemy to move in a certain manner, but in PR, they can even pop up and fire straight at the formation without being in any sort of cover. I've seen an arrowhead formation in the bunkers on Kashan killed by a single SAW which was behind them, which is indicative of how much of a waste of time it is.

No shit its firing as a group. I've lead squads for coming on 2 years now and I've developed a system just as everybody else has, knowing it works, I'm not going to add in a tactic that whilst realistic is utterly inneffective at stopping the spontaneity of PR.

Nope. What is key is getting in without being seen or completely avoiding contact. Preparing for the worst with time-taking formations and using fire and movement drills is essentially a misallocation of resources when you could be getting closer to the objective or scouting it out instead of telling the squad 'walk like this'

To disengage from the enemy you just run. Don't bother firing, because when you fire at him, hes not going to keep his head down. A favoured tactic when behind a chest-high wall is to pop up and down really quickly taking pop shots each time, coming from vBF2 it works very well and makes the suppression effect futile.

Overall firing drills fall into the same category as guides like these (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f143-squad-leader-tactics/83585-project-reality-transformational-leader.html) , overthinking it and re-inventing the wheel.

Its counterproductive, pretentious and illogical for a video game.

Fuck formation and firegroups and all those micro-useless crap. Communication, awareness, and knowing what the main objective is all you need. Tim270 is my squad leader btw, I'm his personal nurse and also an avid squad leader myself.

People who seeks to improve at this game needs to explore the game itself, not reality. Having a squad in a perfectly synchronized formation who is on the wrong flag does nothing to contribute to the game.

IN AAS, everything, EVERYTHING revolves around the flags. everything you do somehow someway must contribute to capturing flags.

APC's kill other apcs that kill infantry that capture the flags.

sniper spots armor and other contacts that kill infantry that capture the flags.

infantry kill other infantry that capture the flags

medics keep the infantry alive that capture the flags

Tim builds FOB coz hes a statswhore, but also allow the infantry to spawn near the flag to capture the flags.

NEW players need to realize that project reality is still similar to vBF2 in which u neutralize the flag location and capture it, stop getting lost in tactical formation and l33t snipzors. I'm tired of pub scene where half the team is doing random shit.

So as a squad leader, lead your shit to the flag and cap it, keep your shit alive so u can cap it, and you get 10000000 points like me and tim.

L4gi
2011-01-08, 22:33
There is nothing in PR that infantry cant handle. Everything else is just extra fun. Remember that!

Cavazos
2011-01-10, 04:49
If you're in the right place at the right time small unit tactics are negated.

I always get the squad to aim up enemies and fire as a group because we were in the right place, an alternative to that situation is meeting them in a head-on confrontation and basically everything goes to shit with people just shoot till its last man standing.

People can claim the success of 'fire and movement' and formations but down to brass tax none of it works.

I think small unit tactics suck for public squads. It's downright terrible. Yea, communication and teamwork is second to none compared to other games but if you want a truly effective infantry force then the squad must interact and fight together on a consistent basis with the same people, over and over again.

I've done a lot of squad leading, but I can do a lot and stay alive longer by working alone then leading a squad of 6. I find that lack of training together as a unit is the number one cause for squad wipeouts, deaths, and flank attacks. At least when I work by myself, I know everything I need to do, my weaknesses, how to make the most damage with what I got, and stay alive. However it really sucks not having even one person with you to cover your back, give double firepower on a target, and being as patient and methodical as me.

As for the tactics versus strategy, tactics is more the location of the squad as a whole in relation to the enemy while techniques and procedures is the actual drill part. The conceptual differences of techniques, procedures, tactics, and strategy is not widely known and taught.

Regular gamers settle for calling everything their strategy, tactical gamers pride themselves for knowing the differences between tactics and strategy, but only a few are actually educated to know that neither fully understand what their talking about.

There is nothing in PR that infantry cant handle. Everything else is just extra fun. Remember that!

That is right. Yet I remember when you had let me be an SL for ODS (which was only a short time), that you did what you please and decimated the enemy working by yourself! Heck, I cant even do that.