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K3Spice
2010-11-15, 19:32
Hi, I just installed your mod so this is my second day using it, and I love it so far. I have some issues with the helicopters though. I have flown flight simulators and play arma, arma 2, and arma 2 OA ever so often. I was noticing that the helicopters are 'rough'. They are hard to control and do not respond fast but rather take a few seconds. I believe the helicopter is very unrealistic and should be fixed ASAP. I have heard from countless people who either know or have flown helicopters, that its not that difficult and the if the controls are like what I am seeing then it is off. Personally I thought the helicopters in BF2 without any mods where unrealistic already, but your mod has taken that to an extreme. You have not made it more realistic but rather less. If anyone sees this and thinks this is correct and needs to be fixed then please post a reply saying so and why you think that. Even if you think it is correct please post and say why. I would like to see this problem resolved. Thank you for reading my post.:razz:

Johncro
2010-11-15, 19:45
Hi, I just installed your mod so this is my second day using it, and I love it so far. I have some issues with the helicopters though. I have flown flight simulators and play arma, arma 2, and arma 2 OA ever so often. I was noticing that the helicopters are 'rough'. They are hard to control and do not respond fast but rather take a few seconds. I believe the helicopter is very unrealistic and should be fixed ASAP. I have heard from countless people who either know or have flown helicopters, that its not that difficult and the if the controls are like what I am seeing then it is off. Personally I thought the helicopters in BF2 without any mods where unrealistic already, but your mod has taken that to an extreme. You have not made it more realistic but rather less. If anyone sees this and thinks this is correct and needs to be fixed then please post a reply saying so and why you think that. Even if you think it is correct please post and say why. I would like to see this problem resolved. Thank you for reading my post.:razz:

Welcome,
for starts PR and the arma2 series have different physics, and frankly PR helicopters take awhile to get used to, not to mention that flying with a mouse and keyboard is quite hard, joysticks in PR make it by far easier.

And this is a suggestion, which you:
a) Need 25 post count to make a suggestion
b) Posted in the wrong area.


Welcome to PR and the forums.

K3Spice
2010-11-15, 20:35
Welcome,
for starts PR and the arma2 series have different physics, and frankly PR helicopters take awhile to get used to, not to mention that flying with a mouse and keyboard is quite hard, joysticks in PR make it by far easier.

And this is a suggestion, which you:
a) Need 25 post count to make a suggestion
b) Posted in the wrong area.


Welcome to PR and the forums.

Why do I need 25 post to suggest something? And sorry about the posting in the wrong area, I just realized there is an area for this after reading your comment... I do have a joystick by the way. Do you know why they couldn't keep the helicopters the same? Was there really any advantage to changing the helicopters?

J.F.Leusch69
2010-11-15, 20:40
welcome to the forums and moved to feedback section

Vaiper
2010-11-15, 22:16
K3Spice: "...do not respond fast but rather take a few seconds."
What is complete bs. Chopers reacts as it should be, maybe its yout pc lagging.

BrownBadger
2010-11-15, 22:40
Hi, I just installed your mod so this is my second day using it, and I love it so far. I have some issues with the helicopters though. I have flown flight simulators and play arma, arma 2, and arma 2 OA ever so often. I was noticing that the helicopters are 'rough'. They are hard to control and do not respond fast but rather take a few seconds. I believe the helicopter is very unrealistic and should be fixed ASAP. I have heard from countless people who either know or have flown helicopters, that its not that difficult and the if the controls are like what I am seeing then it is off. Personally I thought the helicopters in BF2 without any mods where unrealistic already, but your mod has taken that to an extreme. You have not made it more realistic but rather less. If anyone sees this and thinks this is correct and needs to be fixed then please post a reply saying so and why you think that. Even if you think it is correct please post and say why. I would like to see this problem resolved. Thank you for reading my post.:razz:

I know what you mean, being an arma player and having flown flight sims, but it is far more realistic than vanilla bf2, where you can't reach any sort of speed at all. The helicopters in PR act differently to each other, try them all out, some are better and some are worse. You can't get it much better with the BF2 engine and it's fine for the type of gameplay that PR offers.

Saying that helicopters in real life are not hard to control, I would disagree and say that is an opinion. In PR it's hard to keep a helicopter steady because of the crappy BF2 physics, and in real life/simulators it's the opposite, easy to keep a helicopter flying straight and steady, but harder to control a helicopter to a fine degree and to land. You'll get used to the PR helicopters and you'll soon realise this is not a flight simulator, it is focused much more on the weapons systems when it comes to air assets.

Zoddom
2010-11-16, 14:37
...


1. wtf? choppers dont react fast enough??? probably crappy pc or what? ofc they react directly and tahts exactly what its supposed to be
2. ??? irl choppers are easier to hover ?? never heard something of cross-winds?
3. i played arma2 and the choppers there react much slower!

Teek
2010-11-16, 15:11
Having experiance with BF2 and BF2:PR and tried Arma2 choppers, the arma 2 helicopters take alot longer to "respond" and they roll much to easlily. If you want to accellerate or slow down you practacly have to point the nose up or down 45 degrees, which is a little much even in real life helicopter videos. With auto hover, it takes less than half an hour to learn the notorious difficult trade in Arma2, its like vBF2 all over again. If you look at microsoft's flight sim, the helicopters there take way longer to respond, and also require finesse.

Zoddom
2010-11-16, 16:06
thats not possible, irl helicopters have to directly respond or you wouldnt be able to hover wiht them :/
you probably mean that it takes a bit to gain speed when pitching

Alex6714
2010-11-16, 19:11
Yeah, they respond when you input but there is a thing called momentum. Black Shark is the most realistic atm I think, then MFSX, then arma probably does it a bit better than PR from what I tried.

They can be improved, but its trial and error, its one thing I was doing in CA and still trying to do because I am convinced you can achieve good speed and at the same time realistic behavior.

hiberNative
2010-11-16, 21:44
i actually like how they feel. feels like they LOOK more realistic in the air when they don't turn on a dime.

K3Spice
2010-11-17, 05:57
Since some people are saying maybe its my computer (lag), I assure you its not since BF2:PR runs at 55fps on average. Which is low but will do (probably the engines mods since BF2 no mods runs at 3 times the frames). I do not believe I was clear enough with the respond issues either. I have set my sensitivity from default to max. It does respond, but takes enough time that it becomes hard to pull out of a (normally) easy bank, or pitch. Sometimes when I pull back on the joystick it will go to far even though I am not pulling back that far (with default and max sensitivity), when it does this I try to compensate by pushing the stick forward, but the helicopter will not respond and will just keep going back. Maybe this is the boundaries of the games engine for realistic helicopters. It seems that without enough engine power the helicopter will drop fast. I try to maintain a low speed for when I land but cannot as it will cause it to drop and crash.

Teek
2010-11-17, 07:32
Sounds like a joystick problem, try using a mouse and keyboard just for troubleshooting at least. Also, if you press S key, the chopper will drop like a rock (which is probably what your throttle is doing without your knowledge), so use it very sparingly if you have to use it at all.

sir_quacksalot
2010-11-18, 03:57
As far as realism goes in this mod. Vanilla BF2 is more realistic as far as real helicopters go with the exception of airspeed and weather-veining with the tail rotor. In vanilla BF2 the helicopter responds cyclically (pitch-roll) and collectively(blade pitch: causes ascent and descent) like a real helicopter would for the most part. This comes from talking to my actual pilots who have played both. It's more realistic in how helicopters fly differently at different speeds. the one thing I have noticed is that there is no "mushing". The helicopter acts more like a pendulum when you're trying to slow down from speed or a steep dive. You immediately pitch back rather than slow yourself and "mush through" your dive. Play Vanilla BF2 and then this mod and do the same maneuver and you will see the difference. As far as controls go, the way I have figured out is best for a somewhat more realistic experience is to only use the top 50% of the throttle. %50 is about zero pitch in this game. just a little below and you will begin to descend. Your power band is from 50-100 if you fly like you did in vanilla BF2 but only use 50-100 you will notice it reacts more smoothly and doesn't suddenly feel like you've cut power and have no control. Below 50% and you just start to fall. I would like to see more of the Vanilla BF2 flight control physics back in this game because they are more realistic in my opinion from my experience flying and from talking with my pilots. I love the weather-veining effect and the differences in speed versus airframes but it still takes out some of the realism of how a helicopter is supposed to fly. Try out using just the 50% and above controls though and it will be a lot easier to fly. Also, no one ever replies back on this but if someone could go in and fix the US helicopter VSI (Vertical Speed Indicator) that would be great too. It works on all the non US birds. It's a big help in flying so you know what you're doing in the air.

Radarrat
2010-12-05, 20:08
The movement is just fine..

What I would really like to see is the Chinook carry more than 8 people...Why can we not expand it to 16?
To be more realistic?

This is one improvement I would like to see..

Zerostar11
2010-12-05, 20:14
The movement is just fine..

What I would really like to see is the Chinook carry more than 8 people...Why can we not expand it to 16?
To be more realistic?

This is one improvement I would like to see..

BF2 Engine restricts the max amount of people in a vehicle to 8.

Mora
2010-12-06, 08:39
Banking is too sensitive i think, bank just a little and the chopper makes already a sharp turn. Sharp turns would require the chopper to bank almost 90 degrees from what ive seen.

Yett71
2010-12-06, 15:21
There is a fine line between realism and real life, the main one is real life runs at 100000000fps but are eye can see 300fps .. You can never get a game which is realistic.

I have used FSX a lot .. and i am a good helicopter pilot, the controls on BF2PR as easy, like extremely easy in comparison to FSX. Having a chopper 100% realistic would be impossible .. and also it would take people a few weeks to learn it.

Helicopters are fine, and the reactions to the controls is okay too.

karambaitos
2010-12-06, 16:13
There is a fine line between realism and real life, the main one is real life runs at 100000000fps but are eye can see 300fps

our eyes see at 25 or 27 FPS

anyway the choppers in PR are fine as they are, maybe a bit of tweaking on some of them so you cant fly them upside down :) (coming from a guy that couldn't fly a chopper in ARMA2 to save his life)

WithoutPurpose
2010-12-06, 16:31
I think this is good if the choppers don't react that good. This way not everyone will be able to fly them, so this makes that someone who wants to fly them has to learn it first and not just hop in and fly away.

pfhatoa
2010-12-06, 16:36
our eyes see at 25 or 27 FPS

Well that depends on lighting and contrast and much more. See: Frame rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate#How_many_frames_per_second_can_the_huma n_eye_see.3F)

Hunt3r
2010-12-07, 22:43
Helicopters in the BF2 engine are flatly unrealistic and feel as if they carry no inertia. It is far more dangerous in PR to pitch down steeply than it would be in real life, as you wouldn't be suddenly accelerating to max speed.

Ford_Jam
2010-12-07, 23:24
The helicopters are pretty easy to pick up, they just take some time to really become an expert.

Just because one person cannot fly and complains about it, doesn't mean the behaviour of all the helicopters needs to be overhauled. I mean, of course every single game is going to portray them differently, if you want them to be real, go play a flightsim like DCS: Black Shark :neutral:

I will say that the behaviour of wheeled helicopters (Chinook, BH, Cow) as opposed to helicopters with skids (Huey) is rather frustrating. I find that the Chinook, BH and Cow are disabled far too easily if you bump into terrain (particularly the nose of the BH).
But what I'm really getting at is the "sliding" of the helicopters, which is more noticeable on the Cow where it slides across the terrain and eventually flips. It's hard to describe

Hunt3r
2010-12-08, 00:34
Personally I'm okay with the wheeled helos, far more forgiving over rough terrain than skid based equivalents.

At least it means that if you land and there's a jagged terrain object, you aren't going to flip and explode.

Nixy23
2010-12-12, 17:41
The helicopters are pretty easy to pick up, they just take some time to really become an expert.

Just because one person cannot fly and complains about it, doesn't mean the behaviour of all the helicopters needs to be overhauled. I mean, of course every single game is going to portray them differently, if you want them to be real, go play a flightsim like DCS: Black Shark :neutral:

I will say that the behaviour of wheeled helicopters (Chinook, BH, Cow) as opposed to helicopters with skids (Huey) is rather frustrating. I find that the Chinook, BH and Cow are disabled far too easily if you bump into terrain (particularly the nose of the BH).
But what I'm really getting at is the "sliding" of the helicopters, which is more noticeable on the Cow where it slides across the terrain and eventually flips. It's hard to describe

I know exactly what you mean. If you land a Cow, even if it's perfectly horizontal, you -will- flip over if you do not take off again virtually immediately after touchdown and dropping off your passengers. It's just silly. This problem also exists with the Huey, where you just flip over if you land. Don't bother attempting to straighten out the helo once you notice it's toppling. Hop out and save your ass, because it's going to come down on you in seconds.

It might just be me, but I also cannot fly a helo with a joystick. It's not that I have a cheap or crappy one that is out of alignment or whatever. It's a X52 Pro from Saitec. When I press the stick half a centimeter to the side, the chopper will go and bank so much, that it's almost impossible to straighten out, and you start looking like an idiot in the air, untill you eventually crash into something.

I do know that it takes a while to get to know how to fly, and I think I got it under control, except for the banking and sometimes the sudden inability to pull up from a >35 degree downwards angle. Then again, it might just be me.

doveman
2013-02-01, 01:26
I know exactly what you mean. If you land a Cow, even if it's perfectly horizontal, you -will- flip over if you do not take off again virtually immediately after touchdown and dropping off your passengers. It's just silly. This problem also exists with the Huey, where you just flip over if you land. Don't bother attempting to straighten out the helo once you notice it's toppling. Hop out and save your ass, because it's going to come down on you in seconds.

It might just be me, but I also cannot fly a helo with a joystick. It's not that I have a cheap or crappy one that is out of alignment or whatever. It's a X52 Pro from Saitec. When I press the stick half a centimeter to the side, the chopper will go and bank so much, that it's almost impossible to straighten out, and you start looking like an idiot in the air, untill you eventually crash into something.

I do know that it takes a while to get to know how to fly, and I think I got it under control, except for the banking and sometimes the sudden inability to pull up from a >35 degree downwards angle. Then again, it might just be me.

Just been playing with the helos offline in PR for about an hour trying to get the hang of them. I don't think I've even tried the vanilla BF2 ones so I can't compare but I can manage to fly the helos in ArmA2OA and DCS BS2 with my joystick OK.

In BF2 PR, I first tried with the mouse and W/S for throttle taking off from an aircraft carrier (was just the first map I saw with helos) and spent most of the time diving into the sea shortly after taking off. I just watched a video on YT which said you have to wait 1-2mins for the engines to get to full power before taking off though, so that was probably the problem there. I don't think there's any indicator to show when it's ready though.

Then I moved to Kashan Desert. One thing I found confusing is the torgue indicator drops to 0 when releasing W so I thought there must be something wrong with my controls or something was pressing S, as I expected W/S to control the collective which should stay where it's set but when I released W the helo would fall back to the ground. I seem to have to keep holding W if I want to fly forward without also losing altitude, or actually keep tapping it as I ascend too much if I hold it. That may be due to not waiting long enough for the engines to get up to full power as well, although it still seems to do it to a certain extent even if I do wait.

I also tried using my Xbox360 controller and Thrustmaster Hotas X joystick to fly but didn't have much luck, whether I mapped the axis in PR, used Xpadder to map the stick to the mouse, or used Xpadder to map the keys to the controllers (I added the arrow keys to control pitch and bank in PR and then mapped the arrow keys to the stick).

Partly the problem will be down to the sensitivity settings/DPI in PR and for my mouse/joystick. There's not actually any sensitivity settings in Xpadder with the stick mapped to the mouse, rather horizontal and vertical Emulation Speed settings plus it can be set to Look/Camera, Mouse or Spring. If I map the axis directly in PR, I disable the stick in Xpadder so it's not affecting the input in any way then.

In PR, I reduced the Helo mouse sensitivity from 3.0 to 2.0 and that's made it easier to fly with the mouse. I still seem to keep getting into a steep bank that I can't recover from, causing me to crash sideways into the ground though! Yaw and Pitch Factor are set to 1.0 (I don't know what effect these would have) and Invert is enabled. It doesn't seem that there's any way to adjust the axis sensitivity in PR, so I guess the only way to adjust the joystick is to map it to the mouse and then use the mouse sensitivity settings in PR.

I had a few goes with the planes as well but their so fast I'm going off the map and getting suicided before I can manage to turn the thing around ;)

EDIT: Forgot to mention that with the arrow keys mapped to pitch/bank it was impossible to fly using them, as they seem to give far too much input even with a short tap, so mapping the stick to the arrow keys isn't going to work either. I'll have another go with the stick mapped to the mouse and play with the mouse settings in Xpadder sometime.

Steeps
2013-02-01, 03:44
Average warm up time is usually 30 seconds. The indicator is the sound that the main rotor makes. When it sounds like its at full speed you're usually good.

doveman
2013-02-01, 03:46
Average warm up time is usually 30 seconds. The indicator is the sound that the main rotor makes. When it sounds like its at full speed you're usually good.

Ah OK, seems the bloke in the video was wrong to say we should wait a further one to two minutes then.

Microwaife
2013-02-01, 06:40
Ah OK, seems the bloke in the video was wrong to say we should wait a further one to two minutes then.

Nah, he was right. You can fly after 30 seconds, BUT you will have problems maneuvering the chopper. After 1-2 minutes the engine will be fully heated up and you can make your barrel rolls with your huey.

Inspektura43
2013-02-01, 07:57
Please just dont join public servers if you dont know how to fly, (well u can still join the russian ones :razz: ) because ive seen alot of ppl trying to fly different helos and crash them all the time.
Learn the basics with the huey, join any server thats playing muttrah or jabal and do your job

btw humans see in 60fps :-o

doveman
2013-02-01, 11:17
Nah, he was right. You can fly after 30 seconds, BUT you will have problems maneuvering the chopper. After 1-2 minutes the engine will be fully heated up and you can make your barrel rolls with your huey.

Hmm, conflicting advice, not sure which to believe now. If it's true, it's a pain when learning as together with respawn time, it adds up to about 3mins wait every time I takeoff and crash almost immediately (whether due to poor flying or the controls not being set right yet), which isn't helpful. Would be useful if there was some sort of training mode that would let us skip the respawn, getting the pilot kit and waiting for the engines to warm up. Maybe even start us in the cockpit with the helo ready to go.

In ArmA I can just plonk a helo down in the editor with myself as pilot already in it and then it's only a few seconds to get the rotors up to speed and I can takeoff and practice.

doveman
2013-02-01, 11:23
Please just dont join public servers if you dont know how to fly,

Aw, not even as infantry? Might be a while before I can join then ;)

Moszeusz6Pl
2013-02-01, 11:27
They are training versions of maps, Merk used to run server with it, but I didn't saw it for some time. You can also use debug mode to spawn helicopter instantly, as well as spawn yourself instantly.

Check this (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-modding-tutorials/95253-tutorial-local-rcon-commands.html) thread for more info. You will need rcon spawner and rcon ready commands.

doveman
2013-02-01, 11:32
They are training versions of maps, Merk used to run server with it, but I didn't saw it for some time. You can also use debug mode to spawn helicopter instantly, as well as spawn yourself instantly.

Check this (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f189-modding-tutorials/95253-tutorial-local-rcon-commands.html) thread for more info. You will need rcon spawner and rcon ready commands.

Cool, thanks. That'll help a lot, especially being able to spawn a new helo after I've crashed them all ;)

I guess if anyone has the training maps I could run them on my own local server.

Moszeusz6Pl
2013-02-01, 11:35
You can use Test Airfield for basic flying training. It have all air assets, with shorter spawn time. You can download it here (https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f354-community-maps/100848-map-test-airfield-4km-released.html)

doveman
2013-02-01, 11:48
Nice one, thanks.

saXoni
2013-02-01, 13:05
btw humans see in 60fps :-o

The human eye / brain combination can see well over 100 frames per second and thus far the limits have not thoroughly been tested yet. Suffice it to say, IT IS NOTHING LIKE THE 24, 30, 60 or even 100 fps crap, that gets spouted on the Internet.

Source (http://whisper.ausgamers.com/wiki/index.php/How_many_FPS_human_eye_can_see).

Gracler
2013-02-01, 13:27
My eyes see with over 9000 fps :shock:

Just kidding :D its funny that everyone seems to know the quick answer to this though. I guess those people who think our eyes are fixed on the standard movie format (24 fps) can save there money on the 3D 48 fps version of "The Hobbit" :D

and btw. the world is not seen in fps, ... the world hasn't turned to "Surrogates" state yet.

Inspektura43
2013-02-05, 10:27
The human eye / brain combination can see well over 100 frames per second and thus far the limits have not thoroughly been tested yet. Suffice it to say, IT IS NOTHING LIKE THE 24, 30, 60 or even 100 fps crap, that gets spouted on the Internet.

Source (http://whisper.ausgamers.com/wiki/index.php/How_many_FPS_human_eye_can_see).

oh damn

u got me here

Hokunin
2013-02-05, 12:23
BF2 chopper handling is the best I ever experienced.

ArmA 2 choppers physics are 100% unrealistic, cuz to move forward arma chopper has to tilt nose down to 90 degrees, the same to slow down, 90 degrees nose up - from aside it looks ridiculously stupid. Never seen to chopper fly like that in real life.

Bluedrake42
2013-02-05, 12:39
play DCS Blackshark... I think you'll find that real life helicopters are much closer to PR BF2 than ArmA 2... by far.

ExeTick
2013-02-05, 14:00
lol if you are tilting your nose 90 degrees up you are coming in to fast. you have to prepare your landing like 1km before you land in arma 2. I like arma 2 helicopter handling but bf2 is by far my favorite :)

Stemplus
2013-02-05, 18:18
well Exe you have to agree that chopper physics look stupid and unrealistic in arma.. even bots do the 90* thing.. also if you want to speed up then you have to nose down like crazy..

ExeTick
2013-02-05, 19:01
to fly forward is just stupid how it is in arma 2 I agree to that.

but you dont need to make a 90* to slow down and land.

Stemplus
2013-02-05, 20:34
True. When I land I try to aproach as low as possible and when I feel close enough I pull up and in the same time turn the engine off. Then when I am above the lz falling straigh at it I turn the engine back on. I know this method is a even less realistic, but it doesen't look retarded and is a lot faster :)

Professorson
2013-02-05, 21:41
Turn the engine off ? What like press F2 F1

mangeface
2013-02-05, 21:45
play DCS Blackshark... I think you'll find that real life helicopters are much closer to PR BF2 than ArmA 2... by far.
I do, which is why I don't fly in PR:BF2 or ArmA 2. Both are horrid in comparison to any DCS or Lock On title, but excluding the fact you can't properly flare a helo in ArmA 2, I will take it over PR:BF2.

Stemplus
2013-02-06, 15:51
lol Prof, we were talking about landing in ArmA II, not PR:BF2 xD

zombie-yellow
2013-02-06, 17:26
I like helicopters in Arma II... But for god sake, fix them in Arma III please !!! D:

hiberNative
2013-02-25, 07:44
i just realized (yet again) how much i'd love a russian hind in 1.0... and had to post this.

Professorson
2013-02-25, 12:33
lol Prof, we were talking about landing in ArmA II, not PR:BF2 xD

it was in PR BF2 forums i was confuseddddddddd

sweedensniiperr
2013-02-25, 15:44
I don't think there's any indicator to show when it's ready though.

...W/S to control the collective which should stay where it's set but...



Pretty smart. Would be really cool if any of this could be implemented.

Psyko
2013-08-11, 00:53
Getting serious performance issues with the Hind, and i'm not alone. some people don't have a problem, but there's something wrong with it. its compounded when you fire ordinance and the taxing effects add to the vehicle's background performance problems.

it feels like little jolts of lag every second and its enough to make the vehicle unflyable.

StandardSmurf
2013-08-11, 01:19
PLEASE put brakes on the helicopters. This is not realistic and just causes crashes how it is.