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LudacrisKill
2010-11-05, 16:06
The Eurofighter and Tornado are WAAAAAY too quick. There is no balanced vs the mig/j10. The typhoon is the best air to air jet in PR, I doubt it should be so.

The Euro should have similar values to the f16/mig and the tornado should be weaker in air to air battles (As I doubt the speed will be reduced BELOW the mig/f16/j10's.)

Its a huge balancing issue for Qinling and Silent Eagle. Don't know why it wasn't fixed in the latest release. It makes it unplayable in private battles like the PRT for example and a few public rounds too.

Also Im pretty sure the Euro and Tornado are too quiet too.

ralfidude
2011-01-12, 18:53
Dunno about the quiet, but they are definitely NOT FAIR in a fight like silent eagle. The eurofighter will always win. And its speed is so ridicolous that if you manage to pop flares when mig is behind you, all you have to do is put ur afterburner on and vuola! You are out of trouble and his sight in less than 1.5 seconds. Lol, i mean come on.... It should be German Mig vs Russian Mig. You CANNOT tell me it would be uneven then.

Stealthgato
2011-01-17, 00:47
Well, the Eurofighter Typhoon is a much superior plane anyways... But since many other things get pulled back for the sake of gameplay, I don't see why this shouldn't.

Rhino
2011-01-17, 01:11
The Eurofighter and Tornado are WAAAAAY too quick. There is no balanced vs the mig/j10. The typhoon is the best air to air jet in PR, I doubt it should be so.

The Euro should have similar values to the f16/mig and the tornado should be weaker in air to air battles (As I doubt the speed will be reduced BELOW the mig/f16/j10's.)

And your basing that on what exactly? The EF2000 is a 4.5/5th Generation aircraft, the F-16/Mig-29/J-10 are all 4th Generation Aircraft where the EF2000 is a far superior aircraft to all, in avionics, weapon systems and flight characteristics.

Eurofighter Technology and Performance (http://typhoon.starstreak.net/Eurofighter/tech.php)

On that table there, the F-16 only scores 21%, EF2000 scores 82% and there are many other tables like that which all say the same thing.

As such, it would be unrealistic for us to put the EF2000 on the same par as the other aircraft you mention, but at the same time we haven't made it as good ingame as it is in r/l and a good pilot can still easily shoot it down in a J-10 etc.

The Tornado on the other hand, is realistic to be that fast. Its a very, very fast aircraft. Its max speed is Mach 2.34, although its relative speed in PR is probably a little too fast but still, much faster than the other aircraft ingame. It is also armed with only a few, short range missiles, where all the fighters ingame are armed with long range and short range so the Tornado is much worse at air-to-air combat than a fighter. If your often getting shot down by a Tornado when your in a fighter, you should practice more tbh :p


While there is a lot that could and needs to be improve with our jets, I wouldn't say that the balance side is really that off tbh as right now, the best pilots will win most engagements which is tbh how it is in real life.

chrisweb89
2011-01-17, 02:13
Umh no. When was the last time you flew jets in PR? Skill means very little in jet combat, its all about who gets behind who first and fires, you can have a pilot that can barely takeoff shoot down the best pilot ingame if he spams his aa missles at the enemy jet. Those 4 short range AA missles are still very deadly and when I do fly make up 90% of my kills. PR is all about balance, the stats for vehicles are always changed so that they are more balanced for gameplay and give both sides a chance, why should this case be any different, the Mig 29 verses EF2000 and tornado is one of the biggest vehicle imbalances ingame even with the 2 mobile AAVs on the ground.

ralfidude
2011-01-17, 05:54
Rhino, you cant tell me some balance has to be achieved.... Take Silent Eagle for example... Explain what is fair about the CAS situation in that map. I reached 3000 speed in the eurofighter last night.... the mig cant even get close to 2300. Yep, thats fair. Totally.

Fukster
2011-01-18, 07:02
Rhino, you cant tell me some balance has to be achieved.... Take Silent Eagle for example... Explain what is fair about the CAS situation in that map. I reached 3000 speed in the eurofighter last night.... the mig cant even get close to 2300. Yep, thats fair. Totally.

That is not based on facts, i can fly mig on 3000 at silent eagle.

Never actually lost to eurofighter on silent eagle. And dont see any reason why ef would be superior.

U need to take those old planes to higher altitude to go "supersonic" and no its not a myth i got a video to show how to go supersonic.

So it works like this, u go high enough to get supersonic, then u dive down and vola u go a lot faster than any ef.

I would never change my mig to anything,i always prefer mig.

here is the video

29adef

ralfidude
2011-01-18, 10:52
that requires u to go and do all that, eurofighter will achieve that without any of that bs.

Fukster
2011-01-18, 11:04
that requires u to go and do all that, eurofighter will achieve that without any of that bs.

Well there is ur solution, what u said is mig will never achieve that types of speeds. that was just to correct you.

chrisweb89
2011-01-18, 17:32
Theres also the fact that the EF has much better agility and low speed flight, the mig has no advantage in any case on my mind, especially over 2 very fast agile jets.

simeon5541
2011-03-14, 00:39
Rhino;1532062']And your basing that on what exactly? The EF2000 is a 4.5/5th Generation aircraft, the F-16/Mig-29/J-10 are all 4th Generation Aircraft where the EF2000 is a far superior aircraft to all, in avionics, weapon systems and flight characteristics.

Eurofighter Technology and Performance (http://typhoon.starstreak.net/Eurofighter/tech.php)

On that table there, the F-16 only scores 21%, EF2000 scores 82% and there are many other tables like that which all say the same thing.

As such, it would be unrealistic for us to put the EF2000 on the same par as the other aircraft you mention, but at the same time we haven't made it as good ingame as it is in r/l and a good pilot can still easily shoot it down in a J-10 etc.

The Tornado on the other hand, is realistic to be that fast. Its a very, very fast aircraft. Its max speed is Mach 2.34, although its relative speed in PR is probably a little too fast but still, much faster than the other aircraft ingame. It is also armed with only a few, short range missiles, where all the fighters ingame are armed with long range and short range so the Tornado is much worse at air-to-air combat than a fighter. If your often getting shot down by a Tornado when your in a fighter, you should practice more tbh :p


While there is a lot that could and needs to be improve with our jets, I wouldn't say that the balance side is really that off tbh as right now, the best pilots will win most engagements which is tbh how it is in real life.
The EF is 4.5 generation,MiG-29M is also.

Acecombatzer0
2011-03-14, 04:01
The MIG-29M is 4th generation. It does have a bigger brother (The MIG-35) which is 4.5 generation.

simeon5541
2011-04-27, 22:03
The MIG-29M is 4th generation. It does have a bigger brother (The MIG-35) which is 4.5 generation.
I thought they are the same :D
But hardware is the same,very beautiful plane :-o

Jonathan_Archer_nx01
2011-05-02, 19:10
Rhino;1532062']And your basing that on what exactly? The EF2000 is a 4.5/5th Generation aircraft, the F-16/Mig-29/J-10 are all 4th Generation Aircraft where the EF2000 is a far superior aircraft to all, in avionics, weapon systems and flight characteristics.

Eurofighter Technology and Performance (http://typhoon.starstreak.net/Eurofighter/tech.php)

On that table there, the F-16 only scores 21%, EF2000 scores 82% and there are many other tables like that which all say the same thing.

As such, it would be unrealistic for us to put the EF2000 on the same par as the other aircraft you mention, but at the same time we haven't made it as good ingame as it is in r/l and a good pilot can still easily shoot it down in a J-10 etc.

The Tornado on the other hand, is realistic to be that fast. Its a very, very fast aircraft. Its max speed is Mach 2.34, although its relative speed in PR is probably a little too fast but still, much faster than the other aircraft ingame. It is also armed with only a few, short range missiles, where all the fighters ingame are armed with long range and short range so the Tornado is much worse at air-to-air combat than a fighter. If your often getting shot down by a Tornado when your in a fighter, you should practice more tbh :p


While there is a lot that could and needs to be improve with our jets, I wouldn't say that the balance side is really that off tbh as right now, the best pilots will win most engagements which is tbh how it is in real life.
Fair enough, sir.

But where one side has superior tech and you're aware of that, maybe that's where you should give the opponent some kind of a counter. Like give Chinese 2 J10's instead of 1 for instance.

The Qinling set-up then could look like this:
1x EF + 1x Tornado vs. 2x J10 + 1x Su-30

It's called asymetric balancing, as I'm sure you know, as opposed to mirror balancing which makes everything dull and therefore it sux :/ It basically means that everything works the same, only skins are different.

cheesus182
2011-05-21, 21:19
But the typhoon is so fast to make it hard to catch by the MIG since its a pain to play on silent eagle when the mig rapes your in 5 seconds because your too slow.
The typhoon is really just used for ground attacks now isnt it?

Rhino
2011-05-21, 22:24
It's called asymetric balancing, as I'm sure you know, as opposed to mirror balancing which makes everything dull and therefore it sux :/ It basically means that everything works the same, only skins are different.

Yes I really need a lecture on asymmetrical balance after Muttrah and all.... :roll:

The problem with your setup is it would take another player off the ground for the PLA and you then need to factor into the consequences on the ground which is larger than you think when there are so few players spread over loads of assets and then the air setup your suggested wouldn't necessarily be balanced as then more than likely the PLA would find it really, really easy to gain air superiority and keep it, meaning the brits would get bombed to crap by another jet in the sky raining down even more bombs than if they managed to get air superiority.

asymmetrical balance is something that you can't archive by a minor tweak like your suggesting, it takes a tweak in every department to archive perfect harmony otherwise its just an asymmetrical setup which isn't balanced and one side has a overwhelming advantage, more so than if you left things as they where.

K4on
2011-05-21, 22:46
The Eurofighter and Tornado are WAAAAAY too quick. There is no balanced vs the mig/j10. The typhoon is the best air to air jet in PR, I doubt it should be so.

The Euro should have similar values to the f16/mig and the tornado should be weaker in air to air battles (As I doubt the speed will be reduced BELOW the mig/f16/j10's.)
Rhino;1532062']If your often getting shot down by a Tornado when your in a fighter, you should practice more tbh :p.

or you should try it yourself. could it be that u haven't flown vs a tornado in last time?^^


http://www.guitarforworship.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Someone-is-Wrong-on-the-Internet.jpg

Tarranauha200
2011-05-22, 19:54
Stop whining, its project reality, not "project fair game and perfect balance".

K4on
2011-05-22, 20:50
Stop whining, its project reality, not "project fair game and perfect balance".

yes, just dont mess with me if i am the tornade pilot - or you will lose your jet

saXoni
2011-05-22, 21:24
Why? I'm sure 50% of all PR players will kick your ass, Mr. Braggart.

Hitman.2.5
2011-05-22, 21:33
Theres also the fact that the EF has much better agility and low speed flight, the mig has no advantage in any case on my mind, especially over 2 very fast agile jets.

Well if anything this is realistic the Euro fighter was designed to be aerodynamically UNSTABLE to achieve super-maneuverability it has 50 computers to keep it stable if one fails it will tumble out of the sky (redundancies in place). So its agility should be much more than that of any of the other jets... the fact that the J-10 came out in '98 the MiG-29 in '83., There technologically obsolete as the EF was out in '03.

Doc.Pock
2011-05-23, 18:48
Why? I'm sure 50% of all PR players will kick your ass, Mr. Braggart.

i know atleast 2 :=)

Herbiie
2011-05-23, 19:38
But the typhoon is so fast to make it hard to catch by the MIG since its a pain to play on silent eagle when the mig rapes your in 5 seconds because your too slow.
The typhoon is really just used for ground attacks now isnt it?

Thought the Typhoon was meant to be a Fighter Bomber like the harrier.

The Tornado is a bomber iirc

Rhino
2011-05-23, 19:46
The Tornado is a Fighter Bomber, although its main role is a bomber.

The EF Typhoon is also a Fighter Bomber / Strike Bomber, but its main role is air superiority but its also very capable of delivering air to ground weapons too.

Basically any modern aircraft made these days is made to be a multi-role fighter as with aircraft becoming way more expensive governments can no longer afford to buy lots of aircraft for specific roles when one aircraft can do multiple roles.

Sgt.BountyOrig
2011-05-23, 20:21
Russia gets AA on Silent eagle, you get an unfair advantage in having more weapons!

Its not an imbalance, its just shifted proportionality, one side gets more AA, the other gets slightly better Aircraft.

ralfidude
2011-07-12, 05:58
So.... No input on the devs about the absolutely ridiculous speeds of those jets? I cant find where i posted on another thread relating to the tornado, but as currently is, the tornado cannot drop bombs or lock on to lazes for missiles because by the time the pilot gets the i got a lock sound, the target is already behind the tornado. Lol. So... input? Or... sweeping this under the rug?

Rudd
2011-07-12, 06:28
Ralfidude, antagonising the team earns you no points.

I don't think this has been addressed yet because everyone's dance card is full and that only a few DEVs are good with jets. Like a few other issues its in a queue.

If you want you can have a look at the .tweaks and try and find the cause of these problems please do.

Wispit
2011-07-12, 08:35
So.... No input on the devs about the absolutely ridiculous speeds of those jets? I cant find where i posted on another thread relating to the tornado, but as currently is, the tornado cannot drop bombs or lock on to lazes for missiles because by the time the pilot gets the i got a lock sound, the target is already behind the tornado. Lol. So... input? Or... sweeping this under the rug?

With regard to using the tornado as ground attack and "going to fast to lock on to lases"

Try a simple technique that has worked for me many times now.

SLOW DOWN. Thats it. Slow down when going in for a lased target, and your gunner will have time to lase the target and drop away. Only downside is that your now going as slow as the mig in a straight line.

As for the Mig V EF ive had more experience in the tornado and EF on SE so i cant completely comment about the differences. But my understanding is that the EF is a super fast new jet, MIG is old russian plane, its only natural there will be a difference between the two.

Though at the same time, any jet engagement is about who sees who first, and AA isnt gauranteed to work. Though i do know the mig can gain superiority its just not as easy as you are the weaker unit...thats where intel on last jet sightings is wonderful... and having AA vehicles also gives the russians a hand, as the havok gets raped easily with any german jet around. Which personally makes it balanced just not directly e.g. jet speeds

As for EF v J10 both ive found to be rather balanced. Both are fast.
Same with the Su-30 and Tornado

P.S. This is only what i have found in my experience in jets in PR.

ralfidude
2011-07-12, 09:16
Slowing down in the tornado causes problems.

That whole map (SE) is fubar. I still do not understand why the Germans got the Euro and Tornado against one mig... It... makes... no sense... at all...

Iv been on both sides of that map and we had it in rotation for a long time. The truth is this. If the mig pilot sees the eurofighter first, and decides to engage right away and not close in (Which is hard due to the post apocalyptic visibility on that map), then all the Euro does is pop a few flares and hit the afterburner at the same time. The mig has absolutely NO CHANCE IN HELL to catch up. Now, if the mig waits and tries to close in somehow, then yes, in close range the mig will take it down.

Now, mig vs tornado, is even worse, since the tornado is even FASTER than the Euro. Whent he Euro goes down, we dont mind sending in the tornado to fly by itself up there, because it sometimes does the job of a AA fighter better than the EU, lol.

So, effectively, you have created a map of 2 FAR superior fighter jets, vs one fighter jet that may or may not get the job done.

Its really as simple as changing the speeds of the aircraft... solves the lock on issue for lazing.

Also, it is well known that the lazing even when slowing down in the tornado does NOT work.

I have had countless countless countless issues with bombing tanks with a bomb in a tornado that's slowed down, and the bomb hit the target dead on the laze (Confirmed by spotters on the ground) and it did almost no damage to the tank. Requiring to turn around and go for another run. Also, have had issues of bomb missing completely on many occasions. Missiles as well go sky high a few times. Id love to make a video of it, but we got rid of that map because of its suckiness at the moment.

Bombs are effective against ground structures though. Not sure whats wrong there but seems that a combination of speed, and possible bomb script malfunction is causing these issues.

This has been confirmed time and time again with different pilots, not just within my clan, they all pretty much agree on most of these points. Something is seriously wrong here. So I guess get to it when you get to it, but please, do something about this, its not right.

Rudd
2011-07-12, 09:27
if you could make a bug report with the issues you've seen minus the gameplay observations, it would serve our purposes enourmously.

Grober
2011-07-12, 11:07
http://imageshack.us/m/713/1051/speedma.png

table of max speed without afterburner for me Tornado is WAY to fast

arjan
2011-07-12, 12:46
Jets could use a rework badly anyway.
Of this game, the aircraft are the most arcadey part. ;)

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f18-pr-bf2-suggestions/94457-aircraft-overhaul.html#post1545210

Elektro
2011-07-12, 12:55
the tornado cannot drop bombs or lock on to lazes for missiles because by the time the pilot gets the i got a lock sound, the target is already behind the tornado.

You are not suppost to lock on in the tornado co-pilot seat. You simply aim at the lase and fire then the missile will find its path to the target without a lock.

ralfidude
2011-07-12, 13:55
We have even tried that. It sometimes works, sometimes does not. But in another thread another problem arises with the bombs not killing armor. Its a glitch that's being looked into I hope. But like i said, its all in another thread. As of this moment, the tornado is as useful as the Merlin when it first came out in Al Basrah with the lag glitch. Its best suited for AA role to kill the Mig in silent eagle since the mig does not stand a chance against the two superior fighters against it. I do hope sniperdog finds some time to work on that major aircraft overhaul he was talking about.

PS: Grober, great chart mate! You should also put the afterburner chart on, since the tornado has pretty much infinite afterburner, and the Eurofighter i believe has longer after burner duration than other jets. I think the tornado reaches like 3500 speed in afterburner, its ridicolous hahahha

Rudd
2011-07-12, 13:57
when it first came out in Al Basrah with the lag glitch

we know why it does that now btw, its a colmesh issue, and is in the queue :)

ralfidude
2011-07-12, 14:47
+1 for that Rudd!

I tip my hat off to you

vovo4ka
2011-11-01, 13:15
full armed jet can't make max speed...

40mmrain
2011-12-01, 03:49
The jet layout on silent eagle is not supposed to balanced. at all. The russians have ATGM tanks, which make them superior, the more thickly armoured, more heavily armed BMP-3, and a havoc which is MUCH better at giving manual CAS. If you have the russians some su-35s or something of similar speed and agility to the eurofighter then it would be simply unfair for the germans due to their armour being worse.

The black gold layout is sort of the same way right now. Russian armour >>> chinese, but J10 > mig 29.

The mig on silent eagle is really only for keeping enemy jets at least threatened.

Stealthgato
2011-12-01, 14:16
Russian armour >>> chinese

Lol no.

40mmrain
2011-12-05, 04:31
Lol no.

maybe im just good?

type 99s are no problem for the t90, one ATGM is an instant kill, and I seem to be able to survive hits from the chinese tanks.

The chinese APC has thermals making it better than the BTR, however. Maybe the russians could receive a BMP-3 on black gold's final release?

Stealthgato
2011-12-05, 14:44
maybe im just good?

type 99s are no problem for the t90, one ATGM is an instant kill, and I seem to be able to survive hits from the chinese tanks.

The chinese APC has thermals making it better than the BTR, however. Maybe the russians could receive a BMP-3 on black gold's final release?

T90 can't survive a HAT 90% of the times, Type 98 can 90% of times, and I've survived ATGMs on Type 98 plenty of times, whereas on the T90 one is always enough to take it out. WZ551 with 30mm is better than BTR-80a, VN-3 is better than BRDM 14.5, Type 95 SPAAG is as good as Tunguska and the rest of the russian armor doesn't have a counterpart in the Chinese army in PR so it's not fair comparison.

VapoMan
2011-12-05, 15:48
The chinese APC has thermals making it better than the BTR, however. Maybe the russians could receive a BMP-3 on black gold's final release?


During the beta it wasn't and issue.
The WZ551 has the advantage of thermals, but it only has a 25mm cannon, whereas the BTR80A has a 30mm cannon with a higher rate of fire.
The BRDM and VN3 are very simular in terms of armour and firepower, although the BRDM isnt as mobile and some of the passengers have to expose themselves on the outside of the vehicle.

They're very minor differences and don't change the outcome of the game that much. The outcome of the game really comes down to the team as a whole and the skill of the crewman.

The jets however aren't as balanced, although I did see examples of the MIGs having the upper hand at times. The AAVs were the real jet killers from what I saw.

40mmrain
2011-12-06, 04:27
T90 can't survive a HAT 90% of the times, Type 98 can 90% of times, and I've survived ATGMs on Type 98 plenty of times, whereas on the T90 one is always enough to take it out. WZ551 with 30mm is better than BTR-80a, VN-3 is better than BRDM 14.5, Type 95 SPAAG is as good as Tunguska and the rest of the russian armor doesn't have a counterpart in the Chinese army in PR so it's not fair comparison.

Im going to have to see some factual numbers here, really. I always felt as if my tank was superior when I was on the russian side. I have hit type 99s on the front armour with ATGMs and have had them tracked, rendering them completely defenseless for a minute or two while they get the turret warm again.

Yes, the russians dont really need a BMP, I merely suggested that under the impression both the chinese tanks and apcs were that much better, when they are not.

nvram
2012-04-16, 19:14
Jets also have a lot too less ammo
F16 in PR 16x Rounds F16 in RL~511
A10 has in PR about ~500? should have 1,174 rounds
...

ExNusquam
2012-04-16, 20:03
Well, the F-16 should also carry 100 flares and A-10 should carry 360, since that's their max capacity in real life right?

In PR, due to the significantly shortened ranges at which aerial engagements occur, and the significantly shorter time required to RTB and rearm, this is one of those times where gameplay>realism.

nvram
2012-04-16, 20:41
But 160 rds is just useless...

Stemplus
2012-04-30, 19:38
That is not based on facts, i can fly mig on 3000 at silent eagle.

Never actually lost to eurofighter on silent eagle. And dont see any reason why ef would be superior.

U need to take those old planes to higher altitude to go "supersonic" and no its not a myth i got a video to show how to go supersonic.

So it works like this, u go high enough to get supersonic, then u dive down and vola u go a lot faster than any ef.

I would never change my mig to anything,i always prefer mig.

here is the video

29adef

there is no point doing that, since if you do the same with the tornado, you will can reach over 6000 (!!!)

DNA9881
2012-05-01, 02:22
I DNA prefer the Mig on both Silent Eagle and Black Gold. Just because the enemy jet is faster doesn't mean it is harder to kill. It all comes down to who sees who first! Being slower allows you to maintain a steady distance behind your target as well and gives you more time to think through your attack and predict the enemies maneuvers. I find it rare to be outran by a jet unless of course you are in a Frog or A-10.

Ca6e
2012-05-01, 06:49
Hehe Someone are real funny, writing down: "Those who first came behind jet, will won the dogfight". No shit, 90% of the dog fights is to get behind the enm jet, other way around is try to evade them. Only thing that is a problem here, flares dont do much, couse the system isnt good, like u are poping little crackers behind u, like flares were to weak. But i think the higher number of flares around 60 will do the job, couse now, u are poping like a mad, but they just dont work, in the situation when they should.

I think flare system of jets, is only imbalance in the game, make dogfights short, and plane to agile.

Stemplus
2012-05-01, 11:53
I laugh when I see people people saying "dogfights are about who sees who first". Bullsh*t. I don't see anything hard in getting the enemy jet off your tail. You just need to know when to pop flares, make turns, barrels, when you should rapidly speed up and slow down etc. Its not just about spamming in mumble "AAAAAAAA HELP ME ENEMY JET ON MY TAIL!!!!111111". I survive 60% of dogfights when the enemy jet is behind me. The major reason when I loose a dogfight are 20mm cannon snipers. REMMEMBER! You need to pop flares all the time, i.e. 1 flare/5 seconds. If you only pop flares when you hear *BIP BIP BIP* its already too late. Doing that makes your enemy have far less oportunities to lock onto you.

alexpower15
2012-05-01, 16:51
Well, the F-16 should also carry 100 flares and A-10 should carry 360, since that's their max capacity in real life right?


i don't like this idea if i have a mig on my tail and i can't lose him. I would
probably pop a flare ( since i would have 100 flares) ever second and ask
for an AA canon over my base to be ready. and went i pass over my base ,
Boum the migs got shot.

Stemplus
2012-05-01, 18:53
i don't like this idea if i have a mig on my tail and i can't lose him. I would
probably pop a flare ( since i would have 100 flares) ever second and ask
for an AA canon over my base to be ready. and went i pass over my base ,
Boum the migs got shot.

1. Sarcasm...
2. Good luck doing that, because 75% of time you will be about 2-3 km from your main, so you will have to fly straight for ~20 seconds which will be the best oportunity for the jet on your tail to spam you with his cannon below his feet

LongHairedHuman
2012-06-22, 11:52
Well, the F-16 should also carry 100 flares and A-10 should carry 360, since that's their max capacity in real life right?

In PR, due to the significantly shortened ranges at which aerial engagements occur, and the significantly shorter time required to RTB and rearm, this is one of those times where gameplay>realism.

The A-10c has 120 flares at default, and 240 chaff. The pilot can set up his own countermeasures program, in the [chaff] [flares] [interval] [cycles]. Chaff indicates the amount of chaff deployed per cycle, and flares the amount of flares deployed per cycle. Interval indicates the amount of time between cycles, reaching between .25 to 5 seconds, and cycles indicates the amount of cycles that will be done when you press the CMS on the HOTAS. Though this is only done when the CMSP is set to manual.

Honestly, I think the usefulness of SAM and AA missiles should be reduced, and thereby increasing the effectiveness of flares. Perhaps make them turn slower, as the missiles are used to intercept, not follow.

SuperHornet
2012-06-22, 19:33
The A-10c has 120 flares at default, and 240 chaff. The pilot can set up his own countermeasures program, in the [chaff] [flares] [interval] [cycles]. Chaff indicates the amount of chaff deployed per cycle, and flares the amount of flares deployed per cycle. Interval indicates the amount of time between cycles, reaching between .25 to 5 seconds, and cycles indicates the amount of cycles that will be done when you press the CMS on the HOTAS. Though this is only done when the CMSP is set to manual.

Honestly, I think the usefulness of SAM and AA missiles should be reduced, and thereby increasing the effectiveness of flares. Perhaps make them turn slower, as the missiles are used to intercept, not follow.

Thanks for giving us a lesson on something that has nothing to do with the game.

Maverick
2012-06-22, 20:01
Thanks for giving us a lesson on something that has nothing to do with the game.

I think he played a little too much DCS:A-10C...

Souls Of Mischief
2012-06-22, 20:22
Thanks for giving us a lesson on something that has nothing to do with the game.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPxwSbPIGAWjMFP4A9WMKq3n9o1iwVH rPK__Qer1T9CHReyykbYANu-PZiAw

LongHairedHuman
2012-06-22, 23:29
Thanks for giving us a lesson on something that has nothing to do with the game.

You learn something new every day, and it was relevant as it regards countermeasure count, and the amount of flares that can be deployed at once.

And Yes, I played too much dcs A-10c, and blurt out semi-random A-10c facts out, if the oppertunity arises.

But back on topic please, I don't want to cause a derail, or I might blurt out random train facts.

SShadowFox
2012-06-23, 00:10
OFF Topic: I'm confused, why LongHairedHuman uses the same avatar as Maverick?

Brainlaag
2012-06-23, 23:21
OFF Topic: I'm confused, why LongHairedHuman uses the same avatar as Maverick?

They obviously got a deep faggish connection between each other :razz:

Maverick
2012-06-24, 07:58
OFF Topic: I'm confused, why LongHairedHuman uses the same avatar as Maverick?

Chose it since most of my activities in PR involve flight.

Back On-topic, jets need an overhaul.

40mmrain
2012-06-24, 08:43
jets dont need an overhaul, at all, theyre being updated for 1.0, anyways. The eurofighter really ought to be much better than the fulcrum, the most problematic plane is the j10, its turning radius is unreal.

Making all the jets of equal stats is boring, too easy, and unrealistic. If were going to balance this, make the jets fly as realistically as possible, then do it with numbers. For example 2 mig-29s vs a typhoon and tornado would be more balanced than just one. Or give the russians su-35s, I dont know.

jets operate fine, the aerial combat cant really be changed, and the ground attack is a little primitive that's it.

Felix
2012-07-28, 13:46
Y u all whine about EF and tornado when J-10 is clearly the best plane in PR? The speed and the turning radius makes it clearly the best plane in PR, especially on a map like black gold when the view distance is like 1200.

Pronck
2012-07-28, 16:12
Because people don't play with the J-10 that often.

Stemplus
2012-07-29, 11:44
Exactly. There is no way to fly the J-10 with mouse + keyboard setup and using it's "magic" turning, only keyboard only or joystick. Using keyboard makes you EXTREMELY un-precise. And joysticks, they aren't very common in PR since its hard to make them work with PR, so you will see a joystick once per 5 normal pilots, and once per about 3 good pilots. I said about 3, because I only know like 10 good pilots (and they know who I am talking about exactly :P )

40mmrain
2012-07-29, 19:13
everyone I know flys with a stick. With a pad you could take advantage of its agility too. Currently..

J10 > eurofighter > mig-29 = F16

IT should be

eurofighter > F16 = mig-29 = J10 > su-30 > tornado. This would make euro+tornado = J10+su-30, and perhaps on silent eagle mig+mig = eurofighter+tornado. As it stands, the mig has no chance on black gold, or silent eagle.

Stemplus
2012-07-29, 20:21
I disagree that mig = f16. F16 is much stronger and faster than the mig, more, you have 100 times bigger visibility in it.

40mmrain
2012-07-29, 23:15
"visibility" isnt an issue if you actually know how to fly, you ought to be in the "8" camera view most of the time youre pursuing or looking around. Further still, both jets have very similar top speed and acceleration. Please keep in mind im talking about the F16 in game.

Theyre both practically in equilibrium ive seen either dominate the other

CanuckCommander
2012-07-30, 01:52
There isn't much of a Jet Imbalance in PR as the jet combat in PR itself is unrealistic and unintuitive. Whoever gets behind the enemy jet wins. That isn't what modern jet warfare is like at all. PR's jet battles are like WWII air battles except with guided missiles instead of cannons.

Real jet combat is a lot more dynamic with BVR missiles and now off-bore missiles. Until the plane mechanics, including physics and gameplay elements, are fixed in PR, discussing imbalance is pointless in my opinion.

Hunt3r
2012-07-30, 02:56
There just needs to be a lot more flares, and they should disperse two at a time with one shooting out the top of the aircraft and another from the bottom.

Rudd
2012-07-30, 09:20
There just needs to be a lot more flares, and they should disperse two at a time with one shooting out the top of the aircraft and another from the bottom.

that's a separate issue tbh, not really do to with imbalance of jets, that's just a general jet feedback

completely legit comment, just in the wrong place mate :)

Hunt3r
2012-08-04, 06:49
that's a separate issue tbh, not really do to with imbalance of jets, that's just a general jet feedback

completely legit comment, just in the wrong place mate :)

Eh, it might be one way to deal with the jet imbalance by making it so that just because you get locked doesn't mean that you're about to die.

For asymmetrical balance, we absolutely need to have one jet outclimb the other, but the other has to be able to out turn the other. That way, one jet can win by going vertical to get a tighter turning circle than the other jet, and the other jet can try to get the other jet to fight in the turns, and then out turn it to win the fight.

Of course, if both are doing the best they can and exploiting their abilities to do so, it should basically come down to who is in the better situation at the merge.

ExNusquam
2012-08-04, 11:12
bla, blah, blah
I concur, the setup in Falklands is brilliant. The Harrier can easily out turn the Mirage, yet if the Mirage dumps flares and goes into burner, there's nothing the Harrier can do to kill it.

Rhino
2012-08-04, 12:15
That's mostly down to the r/l capabilities we are trying to reflect there.

ExNusquam
2012-08-05, 22:41
Don't you love it when realism=gameplay?

Rhino
2012-08-24, 06:01
- Moved unrelated posts to: https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f22-military-technology/105576-4195-final-f-22-raptor-7.html#post1806993

Please keep on topic...

Don't you love it when realism=gameplay?

I find that this is normally the case :p

Although in the case of the Falklands, the Harriers dominated in air combat, when they managed to get into that situation that is :p

godfather_596
2012-09-16, 14:17
I disagree that mig = f16. F16 is much stronger and faster than the mig, more, you have 100 times bigger visibility in it.

False the mig 29 is superior in every aspect to the f-16 from survivability to maneuverability. After all it was made to counter the f-16 and it truly turned out a marvel. Found a nice video on youtube about the mig 29: MiG-29 Take-off into the future Part 1/2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXYevIHV5a0)

As for Typhoon it is very fast and very maneuverable nerfing it would be very unrealistic

saXoni
2012-09-16, 14:51
False the mig 29 is superior in every aspect to the f-16 from survivability to maneuverability.

Not in-game it's not. They're pretty much equal.

godfather_596
2012-09-17, 16:25
In game yeah that's true not a pilot myself but I've flown both and they are pretty much the same in terms of maneuverability.

ExeTick
2012-09-27, 19:57
there is a reason russia get AAVs on silent eagle. probably because german Cas is better.

Stemplus
2012-09-28, 18:45
Still, even if russians will use the mig and the AAV properly, germans will still have the last jet up, while russian CAS get's raped in the first 5 minutes.

chrisweb89
2012-10-02, 18:27
AAVs, are near useless against the german jets unless they are flying slower than full speed and flying like there isn't AA, or the AAVs camp the runways. Doing bombing runs with the eurofighter is easy and safe, even with enemy AA nearby, and unless the mig pilot is amzing he won't survive long enough with a jet on him to draw them into the AAVs.

AAVs supplement aircraft, and do air defence. 1 AAV doesn't equal one mig.

Even silent eagle with 2 migs vs a eurofighter and a tornado would be a hard fight, just look at black gold.

When I'm in the mig I just try to stay out of the fight and drop bombs, or hunt the enemy jets if ground troops spot them, other than that I hide.