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Michael_Denmark
2010-09-13, 18:34
Inspired by the answers in the thread about how to create a victorious PR team, a question suddenly popped up on my inner screen.

Initiative, sweet progressive word. But what is it?

What is initiative on the PR battlefield?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:7YcDmENA7d1BgM:http://www.usa.diplo.de/Vertretung/usa/en/__PR/GIC/2008/11/13__Chess__Boxing__Bild,property=Galeriebild__gros s.jpg&t=1


Before asking you, a short description of the word as I view it.

To me initiative is to start something up that somehow will influence the opposing team.

So, initiative can be to attack, to defend, to retreat, or to initiate/process/complete -all or some of these three methods combined. Examples deployed:


The attack: influencing the enemy due to as minimum, its focus on momentum into the enemy positions, into the enemy units and into the enemy logistics.

The defense: influencing the enemy due to as minimum, its own ability to reject enemy attacks and movements.

The retreat: influencing the enemy due to as minimum, its ability to bring ones own team out of harms way and form there being able to continue to fight another place on the map.


However, often in PR and in fact in many military circles, initiative is still today only perceived as the attack, where troops are commanded to move into the position of the enemy. Thus, not up to the position, but into it.

So now you. What is initiative to you.

Will you take the initiative and deploy your answer in this thread?

Is it initiative in it self, if you don't deploy your answer in the thread?

What is initiative?

joethepro36
2010-09-13, 18:51
Initiative in PR is the ability to take up a leadership/important position instantly and begin to play in the battle on your terms.

For me at least if the squadleader leaves I tell the squad I'll take command. If we don't have a defender then my squad defends. No attackers? We attack! Initiative is very important in a squad, a squad should not be based on an organic system where every part has it's distinct role to play. Every person should be able to take up varying positions to accomadate the squads needs. If you have a medic down you need someone to temp medic, having the best shooters in PR which lack medic skills or the initiative to act in a crisis situation will get you killed over and over.

cyberzomby
2010-09-13, 19:07
To me, and I thought this was the official meaning of the word: Initiative is if you dictate the battle to the enemy. If you sit still and dont do anything you dont have the initiative. That does not mean that attacking head on will give you initiative. Who ever wins the battle had the initiative because they dictated the battle to the enemy.

I think I'll agree on JoethePro's answer on what Initiative is in PR.

Wicca
2010-09-13, 19:22
Real life is to not wait and sit around to be bombed. Its taking the first move like a Strategy game, you start the momentum. Where you go what you do.

In PR, if you decide to Defend, then you leave the enemy with alot more options, since you wont attack.

Like Clauzwitz said, If you have the choices between Defensive, offensive or a combination of the two, always go with the two latter. (either a Offensive operation, or a combination)

When i Squadlead in PR, and i see a flag noone is defending, i either get ther, spam chat, or spam SL radio.

Initative is also making choices, cause if your not ordering anything, your team aint doing squat.

I think iniative is overated, most grunts have it in them to react to hostile situations. Leadership iniative, ie making sure your engaging your enemy where it hurts the most, is a rareity, i think most people are so bottled up into the whole "FLAG ATTACK!" Mindset that it just throws the real life scenarios out the window.

L4gi
2010-09-13, 19:56
I dont wait for a chance to show up, I make that chance. Thats what initiative is.

Michael_Denmark
2010-09-17, 20:18
Thanks to those few so far, who has taken the direct initiative and deployed their opinions/conclusions.

With your permission I have taken the initiative to deploy a few questions. I hope you will follow up on them, due to the (IMO) importance of such a discussion in PR, as the game it still is today.


I dont wait for a chance to show up, I make that chance. Thats what initiative is.

So defense is not a chance?


Real life is to not wait and sit around to be bombed. Its taking the first move like a Strategy game, you start the momentum. Where you go what you do.


Sorry that I am so defensive mined in PR as I in fact am, but is defense, sitting around, not a type of momentum in it self?


Initiative is if you dictate the battle to the enemy

Agreed. However, dictating the battle to the enemy covers a whole array of methods. Some tactical, some psycological.

Initiative in PR is the ability to take up a leadership/important position instantly and begin to play in the battle on your terms.

I agree with the exception of taking the leader-position instantly. I?m simply not sure, since initiative, just might can be indirectly deployed as well?

***

Mike

dtacs
2010-09-17, 23:25
I dont wait for a chance to show up, I make that chance. Thats what initiative is.
/Thread

goguapsy
2010-10-09, 16:30
I dont wait for a chance to show up, I make that chance. Thats what initiative is.

Agreed, but I would just add you make that chance without necessarily being ordered to do so, if you are a SL for example (or in some cases, SM).

MaxBooZe
2010-10-09, 16:32
So defense is not a chance?

I quote a brilliant tactician:
The best defense is a good offense

CallousDisregard
2010-10-09, 16:42
I think initiative is thinking for yourself and acting on those thoughts.
Sometimes a boring defense is just what the team needs because other SL can check the map, see that the flag is defended and that gives them the freedom to take the initiative on the attack, knowing the rear is secure.
There are times that taking the initiative is harmful to the team, such as when I decide to take the initiative and leave the defense to leapfrog to the next flag before the currently contested flag has turned.
Initiative w/o intelligence is simply gambling.

Herbiie
2010-10-09, 17:20
I quote a brilliant tactician:

Even this isn't what initiative is.

When defending you can keep the initiative by forcing the enemy to act in a certain way - mining areas you don't want him to go on, using TOW emplacements effectively so they can't use armoured vehicles to get close, using AA, TOWs, HATs, and LATs to cut off any enemy supply routes etc. Counter patrolling aggressively when you've found the enemy Fire Base to cut their reinforcements, forcing the enemy to come into a specific place so you can be ready for them. Making sure you are making the decisions not the attacker, if the attacking force has loads of options to attack you, including Options you haven't foreseen, then they have a good chance of taking your position.


Initiative is all about decisions. YOU decide where to fight, YOU decide when not to fight, YOU decide how the fight is fought, cqb, or long ranged depending on your assets/position. People get the wrong idea about initiative, they think that you have to be constantly moving to keep it - not so.

Whoever has the initiative is dictating the flow of the battle, if that team wants the game to be slow paced because it suits their style of play/asset layout then that team must force their opponent into a slow paced game. They must make it so their opponent can't use fast assets to out manoeuvre them, mining roads, blowing up bridges, AA coverage etc. help with this.

Even retreating can be holding the initiative - you're deciding not to fight here, but to fight somewhere else. It's all about not being forced into a particular action while at the same time forcing your opponent to act in a certain way.

Michael_Denmark
2010-10-10, 13:24
Even this isn't what initiative is.

When defending you can keep the initiative by forcing the enemy to act in a certain way - mining areas you don't want him to go on, using TOW emplacements effectively so they can't use armoured vehicles to get close, using AA, TOWs, HATs, and LATs to cut off any enemy supply routes etc. Counter patrolling aggressively when you've found the enemy Fire Base to cut their reinforcements, forcing the enemy to come into a specific place so you can be ready for them. Making sure you are making the decisions not the attacker, if the attacking force has loads of options to attack you, including Options you haven't foreseen, then they have a good chance of taking your position.


Initiative is all about decisions. YOU decide where to fight, YOU decide when not to fight, YOU decide how the fight is fought, cqb, or long ranged depending on your assets/position. People get the wrong idea about initiative, they think that you have to be constantly moving to keep it - not so.

Whoever has the initiative is dictating the flow of the battle, if that team wants the game to be slow paced because it suits their style of play/asset layout then that team must force their opponent into a slow paced game. They must make it so their opponent can't use fast assets to out manoeuvre them, mining roads, blowing up bridges, AA coverage etc. help with this.

Even retreating can be holding the initiative - you're deciding not to fight here, but to fight somewhere else. It's all about not being forced into a particular action while at the same time forcing your opponent to act in a certain way.

Lovely deployed words. I completly agree.

Herbiie
2010-10-10, 13:26
Lovely deployed words.

Thanks :)

Berlan
2010-10-19, 11:04
Biting the buck and taking a chance. Initiative is all about reacting quickly and effectively to any change on the battlefield. But in PR, I believe it can also mean to simply step up as a leader.

However, there's one other meaning which I'm not sure of. When someone says "We need to maintain the initiative." I believe an earlier post describes it.

Bunnyman
2010-12-21, 17:02
In western military jingo they have something called Target Value Analysis that you perform PRIOR to going into battle. It means basically looking at the map and identifying target areas, not just for attack or defence but avenues of advance and retreat, as well as potential killzones against probable enemy advances.

You should be able to work out ways of creating area denial, mortars are usually a good way to do that as are attack helis or sending in an advance party behind the lines to flank a unit as they move into position. These are usually called 'Spoiling Attacks'- where you don't need to specifically wipe out an enemy position or unit you just have to freak out the enemy "-why am I being attacked? How did they know where we were? -Are there more of them around here? I can't set up a forward base here it's too risky-
or I have to set up a forward base here this is a hot zone." It's not simply an ambush (although it can involve that) but more of a generic raid, a form of putting the enemy on the back foot (intiative) and you can only really do this once you have performed a good TVA.

The TVA is useful in my view since we are all familiar with the maps and a commander is only going to take the job if he has some experience, that gives you him instinct in where to identify features of the terrain that are going to be turning points of the battle. The Spoiling Attack allows you to gain initiative, and to just 'poke' the enemy set-up and see how they react, so a raiding party should allows work with a recon pair outside of the attack to observe what happens next. The more organised the enemy force is the more effective this procedure is likely to be. In fact I might even add that in pubs it is probably next to useless since the enemy players can be erratic and normally just follow wherever the bulk of the action is.

guru951
2010-12-21, 17:14
I find initiative to be a crucial tool while playing PR. Typically i find that a squad lead will need to take the initiative to cancel his previous plans to adjust to the outcome of the round.

I may make a squad that is set to ambush enemy vehicles for the round. But shortly into the round it may take initiative from me to cancel that plan and quickly do what is needed for the team, such as building fob's, attacking/defending flags or support, in order to win the game. Every squad lead needs to have initiative. Without leads having and displaying initiative games will unfold in very unnecessary ways that will ultimately lose games, or make them much harder to win.

Initiative can also be something small, such as saying "ok I'll be the medic"

I too have found this exact word, definition and quality to be a seriously valuable asset to a player, especially in a leadership role.

Great post.

Michael_Denmark
2012-05-03, 10:27
Defending is not always initiative because the enemy is not forced to react to you. Defending, as a team, is a reaction to the enemies attacks.

Hi Angatar

Just to understand you correctly.

Initative is depended on its ability to force the enemy to do something, and can therefore never become initiative unless the enemy somehow become actively involved?


Biting the buck and taking a chance. Initiative is all about reacting quickly and effectively to any change on the battlefield. But in PR, I believe it can also mean to simply step up as a leader.

However, there's one other meaning which I'm not sure of. When someone says "We need to maintain the initiative." I believe an earlier post describes it.

Like in a firefight that squad-initiative started out on its own, being breaked by a fire-pause between the two dueling squads, making someone in squad-initiative say, "we need to keep fireing (we need to maintain the initiative)?

I think your right by the way, that there are several meanings of the word. I wonder what the history of military initiative is? How it has evolved.