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View Full Version : Question about this COW tactic


Kill001
2010-06-06, 17:45
So, me and my friends were on Yamalia, and we decided to make a COW squad on the Russian side

So, people soon started to stop asking for choppers and supply crates so I decided to become gunner for the mi8

now the fun starts

We used the choppers as gun platforms with 4 people in our squad (2 pilots flying 2 separate COWs, and 2 gunners for each)

We provided suppressing fire for ground infantry (none of us in our squad got a kill the entire round) and drew the enemy's fire; and throughout the round we only got shot down about 3 times due to apcs and the other team setting up fobs outside our main late game

now here's the whole point of the article

We actually hunted down chinooks and flew right next to them and opened fire

we managed to down about 4 chinooks (in which 2 were flying and the pilot bailed out at 30~50ft) and the other two we chased down and destroyed it when the chinook was landing (of course we did not fly near main but we occasionally waited near the middle of the map when they started to avoid us)

is this method noobish and frowned upon? I've heard devs not wanting add door guns to choppers to avoid these types of things but we still did occasional supply crate runs and picking up troops so we still fulfilled our roles as transport choppers

discuss :oops:

tommytgun
2010-06-06, 17:54
to be honest, I actually do this almost every time i'm Russian on Yamila.

I find it quite entertaining, especially when a chinook tries to kamikaze you and misses lol.

I don't think people mind too much, as long as your are giving transport/supplies when they ask. When you're not busy or the team just doesn't need anything you can just go mess around until you get a call.

Kill001
2010-06-06, 17:59
to be honest, I actually do this almost every time i'm Russian on Yamila.

I find it quite entertaining, especially when a chinook tries to kamikaze you and misses lol.

I don't think people mind too much, as long as your are giving transport/supplies when they ask. When you're not busy or the team just doesn't need anything you can just go mess around until you get a call.

at one point we crashed and the chinook tried to ram us when we got out

luckily my pilot quickly grabbed a AA kit from a dropped supply crate and the pilot for the chinook panicked and crashed after we shot a missile

I think we used more flares in Yamalia than an entire round of Muttrah :mrgreen:

Edit: I think I forgot to add that in the op since we technically didn't 'down' it; we barely got the chooper back for repairs though

Brummy
2010-06-06, 18:04
I only do it on the 16 layer.

Fess|3-5|
2010-06-06, 18:27
I don't think people mind too much, as long as your are giving transport/supplies when they ask. When you're not busy or the team just doesn't need anything you can just go mess around until you get a call.

Here's the thing, when transport helicopters go down they cost 5-10 tickets, plus the pilots in them. If it goes down on a transport run, so be it, that's it's intended purpose. But if a pilot goes off on his own to have fun and gets shot down, that's 5-10 tickets that could easily cost us the game. As a ground player, I REALLY don't like seeing empty choppers flying over the city because the pilots got bored. I've lost many rounds because of too many choppers going down. I think if you are an impatient person, you should not be flying helicopters.

Your case seems a little special though, in which you managed to down their choppers, as well as aid the team heavily both in your standard role and in an air support one. I say good on you. If you can pull it off, that's a great tactic, but on the flip side if you had lost 5+ choppers I'd have called it a waste.

bloodcry223
2010-06-06, 18:34
Here's the thing, when transport helicopters go down they cost 5-10 tickets, plus the pilots in them. If it goes down on a transport run, so be it, that's it's intended purpose. But if a pilot goes off on his own to have fun and gets shot down, that's 5-10 tickets that could easily cost us the game. As a ground player, I REALLY don't like seeing empty choppers flying over the city because the pilots got bored. I've lost many rounds because of too many choppers going down. I think if you are an impatient person, you should not be flying helicopters.

Your case seems a little special though, in which you managed to down their choppers, as well as aid the team heavily both in your standard role and in an air support one. I say good on you. If you can pull it off, that's a great tactic, but on the flip side if you had lost 5+ choppers I'd have called it a waste.

I totally agree with you. If you can do it right, it is okay, but if you charge them in a foolish way and die, please dont do it again.

Kill001
2010-06-06, 18:35
Your case seems a little special though, in which you managed to down their choppers, as well as aid the team heavily both in your standard role and in an air support one. I say good on you. If you can pull it off, that's a great tactic, but on the flip side if you had lost 5+ choppers I'd have called it a waste.

don't you just loooove skilled pilots

so is this tactic good or bad if you have the right requirements? tbh I actually had fun watching the ground troops trying to hit us with their wee little laws and anti-airs

I think the tracers actually told our team where the enemies were 'cause after some time the infantry stopped shooting at us when we started to shoot at enemy emplacements

NovemberUniformBravo
2010-06-08, 08:44
Devs have said they really dont like to see choppers used as gunships at all. IRL the gunners almost never fire. They are defensive 'last resort' options when landing and shouldn't be used to act as a mobile weapons platform. HOWEVER, in INS maps its kind of different isnt it? May just be movie magic, but in ramiel (bhd somalia) it seems like those blackhawks can hover fairly out of effective rpg range and circle enemy known locations. Right?

-CAL ACO-
2011-04-19, 22:58
what do players mean when they say COW?

Rissien
2011-04-19, 23:41
It is the Mec Mi17. Just the common term we use for it.

TheComedian
2011-04-22, 23:10
I don't know why its called a COW when the name is Hip.

sylent/shooter
2011-04-22, 23:12
IIRC it's just a NATO call sign? that was given to the HiP :P

ToonS
2011-04-22, 23:25
I thought it was just because its big, fat and slow, much like a cow :p

I've seen this tacit used a number of times, but mainly by the blackhawk and really only on insurgency maps.
The problem does lie with the fact that on a map against a conventional force, they generally have the AA (static/vehicles/infantry) and also vehicles capable of shooting down a chopper fairly quickly where as the insurgent/Taliban do not have plentiful supply of these, if at all.

PLODDITHANLEY
2011-04-23, 06:32
Nato call sign is Hip, all helis begin with H havoc, hind etc. Fighters with F, Flogger, Flanker, Frogfoot, Bombers with a B etc etc.

Big fat and slow = cow

Psyko
2011-04-23, 08:02
the door guns on choppers are useless anyway. if you can get a kill in any shape or form i would take it and be happy with it.

Rudd
2011-04-23, 10:09
the door guns on choppers are useless anyway. if you can get a kill in any shape or form i would take it and be happy with it.

I really disagree tbh :D

I've seen plenty of examples where men firing out the side of a heli have suppressed enemies attemping to shoot back.

The Blackhawk is the best at this ofc, but the other armed helis can certainly cause chaos in the enemies ranks.

when it comes to these side guns, killing isn't the point, the point is suppresion - which they do well imo.

Tinfoilhat
2011-04-23, 10:48
Rudd;1581944']I really disagree tbh :D

I've seen plenty of examples where men firing out the side of a heli have suppressed enemies attemping to shoot back.

The Blackhawk is the best at this ofc, but the other armed helis can certainly cause chaos in the enemies ranks.

when it comes to these side guns, killing isn't the point, the point is suppresion - which they do well imo.

What he said.:-)

Ive managed to get a couple of kills with the cow's door guns, more by fluke that anything else.
Being on the receiving end is rather intimidating, all those big ass bullets landing around you, and knowing that even with a SAW you have trouble damaging a cow!:-?

Wh33lman
2011-04-23, 17:39
if you had come here complaining that you couldnt get any kills with the helicopter, i would have told you that you were misuseing it. your ran supplies to your team then you suppressed ground targets and severely hampered the enemies ablility to move. you took out more helicopters then you lost, so ticket wise you were in the black. if anything your doing more for your team then most chopper pilots do. i dont see a problem with it.

=HCM= Shwedor
2011-04-23, 17:45
I don't see how this is effective. Isn't the chinooks ingame speed about 600+ km/h and the Mi-17's less than half that? The longest burst your 50cal could get out before the chinook is gone would be a second or so.

Pirate
2011-04-23, 17:55
That only works because you were playing against retards. A chinook can easily get away from the slow-ass cow if the pilot isn't utterly braindead.

badmojo420
2011-04-23, 21:03
One thing that bugs me about this is that you're basically using an exploit in PR to fire on helpless Chinooks. In real life those things have a mk19 on the back ramp and an MG up front. I'd imagine that mk19 alone would make quick work of your huge flying target. But, for obvious reasons I doubt we'll ever see a flying mk19 in PR.

Another reason I wouldn't encourage this tactic is that it might cause the addition of anti-air vehicles. Or simply the removal of the door guns on the COW. Neither option would benefit the gameplay of Yamalia.

Ya know, if the damned manpad AA missiles could actually damage a COW, this type of thing would realistically sort itself out.

TheComedian
2011-04-23, 21:12
Because in RL choppers attack each other with broadsides like 16th century naval warfare, duh...

PLODDITHANLEY
2011-04-23, 22:01
I don't care, I appreciate the pilots get bored and if they have fun, don't lose choppers and can still do their job - great.

However most times pilots engage in CAS they get carried away and don't do taxi or supply runs.

illidur
2011-04-25, 15:24
this is a noob tactic. the pros use AA kits in the back of the cow and hunt down the chinooks ;) you almost had it right though.

its an unfair advantage that the chinook can't fire from its seats + no door gunner.

Rissien
2011-04-26, 17:24
Used to go the other way around and chase Cows with my Chinook. We were circling around one once and we actually got him to crash as he was trying to keep us in veow for his gunner, another time I litterally stalked a Cow across the map and back. Even landed right behind him as he picked up a squad, for some reason they ddnt shoot me lol. Had video of it on my old computer, sadly dont have it anymore tho.

Bellator
2011-04-26, 18:35
I think PR should embrace this and place three 50 cals on both sides of the chopper. Then it would truly be 16th century naval warfare in air. ;)

Bob of Mage
2011-05-04, 10:58
The thing is that helicopters have only fought each other a handful of times. All of those were in the Iran-Iraq War as far as I know. Due to this it really hard to say what would or wouldn't be used in real life when two transport helicopters meet.

In all fairness the Chinook badly needs ethier guns to defend its self, or add the armed Griffons that are meant to escort them (to be honest the Griffons should be add in atleast some role regardless).

Phoenix4894
2012-07-08, 23:30
....I can't believe you can fly the same speed as the Chinook....The MiL-17 is WAAAAAAAAY slower than the CH-47...

Hunt3r
2012-07-14, 22:37
It works.

If you can maintain more enemy helos dead by your hands than those lost by your team, then you are doing it right.

Just actually transport and supply people.

Bringerof_D
2012-08-09, 07:18
One thing that bugs me about this is that you're basically using an exploit in PR to fire on helpless Chinooks. In real life those things have a mk19 on the back ramp and an MG up front. I'd imagine that mk19 alone would make quick work of your huge flying target. But, for obvious reasons I doubt we'll ever see a flying mk19 in PR.

Another reason I wouldn't encourage this tactic is that it might cause the addition of anti-air vehicles. Or simply the removal of the door guns on the COW. Neither option would benefit the gameplay of Yamalia.

Ya know, if the damned manpad AA missiles could actually damage a COW, this type of thing would realistically sort itself out.

not all chinooks have said mk19 mounted on the back. and if so they'd only be able to hit the cow if they were flying behind the chinook. If the chinooks in game had them i'm sure pilots such as these would have figured out to avoid the tail end of the beast. So i really have my objections to you calling this an exploit. Not that i ever use the door guns myself or fly for that matter, you cant really consider the lack of a mk19 on them to be an exploit or even unrealistic.

being in the army all i can say is this, sometimes we don't have things that we should have.

izoiva
2012-08-09, 08:19
During war in Afganistan , soviet army mounted AGS17/30 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGS-17) grenade launcher(similar to mk19) to side door of mi8.

billysmall44
2012-08-22, 20:37
During war in Afganistan , soviet army mounted AGS17/30 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGS-17) grenade launcher(similar to mk19) to side door of mi8.

Could you imagine playing Yamalia and flying the cow popping off grenade rounds?! That would be AWESOME.

Doc.Pock
2012-08-22, 22:06
Thatd be just like cod4. Awesome.

mangeface
2012-08-23, 00:50
Holy shit, the AGS-17 is a beast.
When it comes to ammunition AGS-17 is carnivorous in that it can fire both Russian 30mm as well as NATO 40mm rounds.
Any Russians know of any of these surplus weapons sitting around? I might need you to put it in a box and float it across the Bering Strait to me and I'll pick it up in Alaska.