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bloodcry223
2010-06-06, 15:38
Hello,

Today while playing on Muttrah City on the MEC side I was taking damage without actually being shot (at least there was no sound or blast near me). I died 5 times like this when I asked the other if there is a hacker or a glitch and the guys from the other team told me it is a cobra blindfiring.

I was like :| when I heard that.

They said they where hovering at 800m alt so I want to know what is range of the minigun on the Cobra.
I must say that these "invisible bullets" where falling all over the map.

The pilot and the gunner told me that it is a bug that I can't see the explosion of the bullets, but I belive they were lying so much...

Can someone enlight me what happen there?

Thank you.

masterceo
2010-06-06, 15:44
The cobra can fire well beyond it's visual range, so there's no bug/glitch here.

Narco
2010-06-06, 15:46
Hello,

Today while playing on Muttrah City on the MEC side I was taking damage without actually being shot (at least there was no sound or blast near me). I died 5 times like this when I asked the other if there is a hacker or a glitch and the guys from the other team told me it is a cobra blindfiring.

I was like :| when I heard that.

They said they where hovering at 800m alt so I want to know what is range of the minigun on the Cobra.
I must say that these "invisible bullets" where falling all over the map.

The pilot and the gunner told me that it is a bug that I can't see the explosion of the bullets, but I belive they were lying so much...

Can someone enlight me what happen there?

Thank you.

Yes its a bug that the infantry being fired at cant see the explosions.

The cannons on choppers have unlimited range, although damage decreases over distance.

This is a very common tactic among pilot/spotter teams and significantly reduces the risk to the chopper.

Me and my buddies used this tactic alot.

myles
2010-06-06, 16:14
Hello,

Today while playing on Muttrah City on the MEC side I was taking damage without actually being shot (at least there was no sound or blast near me). I died 5 times like this when I asked the other if there is a hacker or a glitch and the guys from the other team told me it is a cobra blindfiring.

I was like :| when I heard that.

They said they where hovering at 800m alt so I want to know what is range of the minigun on the Cobra.
I must say that these "invisible bullets" where falling all over the map.

The pilot and the gunner told me that it is a bug that I can't see the explosion of the bullets, but I belive they were lying so much...

Can someone enlight me what happen there?

Thank you.
Was this on NWA eveybody on the MEC side was saying it was hacks i was like stip whinning its the cobra but they pressited saying it was hax ruinning and spamming the chat

Drunkenup
2010-06-06, 16:19
Yeah, I took out a firebase and 19 people using the Cobra's M197 firing from over 1300 meters away. Its well over beyond visual range.

Gammlgandalf13
2010-06-06, 17:32
This tactics absolutely reduce the risks of being shot by AA.

I use these tactics everytime I fly the CAS, even if I fly Frog/A10 'cause it works very well for me.

CallousDisregard
2010-06-06, 18:24
They call it BVR( beyond visual range) and I just love it.
It works with tanks and BMPs as well, using a spotter and firing well out of visual range.

bloodcry223
2010-06-06, 18:27
@Myles
Yes, it was on NwA server.

Thank you guys for making me a bit smarter in the PR domain :D.
But still, it is a bit unfair for the infantry to don't know what is going on. As far as those pilots told me, missile explosion is still visible on the ground, the minigun explosion isnt.

Zoddom
2010-06-06, 19:09
u usually hear the bullets coming before they impact. If you didnt even hear that sound its strange :/
Ive personally never heard of this bug, but if its true, its a shame for PR to have such an annoying bug.

goguapsy
2010-06-06, 19:19
Well I never got killed by invisible bombs, but I can say it's pretty unfair to not be able to see the "tracers". If you are good, you might be able to HAT-snipe the cobra, teach them a lesson.

Scared_420
2010-06-06, 21:05
there was a thread about this as sopmeone stated beyond visual range and someone posted all the distances the 20-30mm autocannons can fire, i dont think its unlimited but more in the 3000m range which is pretty much the whole map tho,,, weird how you couldnt see the explosions tho

Web_cole
2010-06-06, 21:33
Yeah, at a certain distance the cannon fire doesn't render (or something) so you have no idea whats killing you. Happened to me on Kashan once, I was like, "WTF?! H4x!" ;)
It's a known issue, I believe.

Yeah, I took out a firebase and 19 people using the Cobra's M197 firing from over 1300 meters away. Its well over beyond visual range.

I believe I was at that firebase :p

Drunkenup
2010-06-06, 22:21
Yeah, at a certain distance the cannon fire doesn't render (or something) so you have no idea whats killing you. Happened to me on Kashan once, I was like, "WTF?! H4x!" ;)
It's a known issue, I believe.



I believe I was at that firebase :p

Did you like that 20mm?

-=TB=-Tobakfromcuba
2010-06-06, 22:41
its also already suggested to change the current marker system. the TOW for example can be used aswell for firing behind view distance also machineguns. had this in the tournament once when one enemy SL gave markers to his squad using saw and .50 cal strafing the bushes we sneaked through.

Web_cole
2010-06-06, 23:09
Did you like that 20mm?

It was strangely arousing...

Hitman.2.5
2010-06-07, 00:08
This tactics absolutely reduce the risks of being shot by AA.

I use these tactics everytime I fly the CAS, even if I fly Frog/A10 'cause it works very well for me.

its a very well known tactic within most pilot circles effective for all Air support assets from jets to choppers as long as you have an accurate marker you can kill infantry 3k+ away because the guns have no drop which is a good compromise as the jets have very little flares.

x-spades-x
2010-06-07, 00:29
Unfair to infantry maybe, but it is unfair that the cobras flairs dont help against AA missles so therefore are forced to stay out of harms way.

Hitman.2.5
2010-06-07, 00:32
Unfair to infantry maybe, but it is unfair that the cobras flairs dont help against AA missles so therefore are forced to stay out of harms way.

thats why we do it :p

NovemberUniformBravo
2010-06-07, 05:29
I've seen and done this a bunch of times on Muttrah. I know why you are complaining though, as I too believe the cobra is a near exploit when used correctly on that map. One spotter over NC was all it took to score 54 kills without my cobra going down ONCE. I've done it in all positions (gunner/pilot/spotter).

A good way to know your specific cobra team is using teamwork well, is if the spotter is talking like the conductor in an orchestra. "Squad in the open, single hellfire" switch targets "rooftop hat team spotted, 3 burst cannon rounds" switch targets "stationary BTR engaging ground units, two consecutive hellfires east to west spread of target marker".

Hellfire Range is limited though, and to be operable over NC, cannons have to clear out AA stations first. Once at 650m, you have hellfire range over all of NC up to gas station.

Reason why its a rig on muttrah though?

Cause one spotter in the mountains in muttrah can see HALF THE TROOP MOVEMENTS on the map! Its not a very BIG map, and makes blindfire an EXCELLENT choice. The gun can reach ANY target on the map win near pinpoint percision (tip: aim at the distance numbers of the marker, not the target marker itself).

Bringerof_D
2010-06-07, 06:31
@Myles
Yes, it was on NwA server.

Thank you guys for making me a bit smarter in the PR domain :D.
But still, it is a bit unfair for the infantry to don't know what is going on. As far as those pilots told me, missile explosion is still visible on the ground, the minigun explosion isnt.

missiles dont have this bug because there's actually a model being deployed. meaning theres an actual object. bullets/canon rounds have no model it's all just animation, i guess in the BF2 engine they made it so beyond visual ranges those effects dont render since the gunner wont see it anyways and the developers didnt foresee people using BVR tactics effectively enough that anyone would need to see the effects. for missiles/rockets the explosion is still happening within range of the object which triggers it. that's just my hypothesis for why this bug occurs.

bloodcry223
2010-06-07, 08:03
So to fix this issue, the devs need to edit the code? I don't know too much about game programming.

NovemberUniformBravo
2010-06-07, 08:07
Fixing the codes wont really do too much. It would still be almost impossible to 'trace' the fire to any specific point BVR unless the tracer is coming down on YOU, in which case your pretty much swiss cheese to the autocannons. I really wish the gunner and pilot could see some of the hellfire kills though. Those are a ridiculous sight. Teaches btrs to keep moving around, hehe. 1 hellfire = tracked btr.

Adding the effect would only let the inf being fired at KNOW they are being seroed in. But tbh, the suppression effect (i assume its not turned on either due to the distance) cancels out any positive to rendering that effect. You would be (as the inf) even WORSE off.

StuTika
2010-06-07, 12:13
1 hellfire = BTR sent into orbit as several charred metal pieces.


Corrected.

I love BVR fire with the Cobra, for some reason I find it even more satisfying being the spotter. It's kinda boring being the gunner in this situation as you're just firing at orange crosses in the white sky, but as spotter you get to see the effect on target :D.

It also feels very cool to say 'Cobra, target, 2 infantry men on the roof on the marker. Fire burst, 10 rounds' then see (or not...) the fire come down!

It's also very handy in the Cobra squad because everyone wants to be the pilot and gunner and normally you have to persuade someone into being spotter for you.

One of my favourite parts of PR.

Dev1200
2010-06-07, 13:53
It's realistic that they can fire at that range, however you can't see the chopper. Which is great for the cobra team which usually goes down in a few runs from AA spam and BTR rape.

"BVR" tactics work extreamly well. I never had this problem before, just once on kashan where I didn't see the explosions. If your a friendly you can see them perfectly.

Narco
2010-06-07, 14:05
So to fix this issue, the devs need to edit the code? I don't know too much about game programming.

This isnt an issue which needs to be fixed. Its a part of the game.

killonsight95
2010-06-07, 15:46
This isnt an issue which needs to be fixed. Its a part of the game.

it is, if you can't see the explotions that killed you then i think not only does it seem very weird to the player and unrealistic, but also it mean anythign could've kileld you, eg. a sniper could be suspect but in fact it was the cobra.

Web_cole
2010-06-07, 17:12
it is, if you can't see the explotions that killed you then i think not only does it seem very weird to the player and unrealistic, but also it mean anythign could've kileld you, eg. a sniper could be suspect but in fact it was the cobra.

It's true, during the Kashan round I talked about before, my squad was dying so suddenly and without any warning that I thought that there had to be a 4 man sniper team on the other side. It was the only thing I could think of that would explain it :D

bloodcry223
2010-06-07, 17:47
it is, if you can't see the explotions that killed you then i think not only does it seem very weird to the player and unrealistic, but also it mean anythign could've kileld you, eg. a sniper could be suspect but in fact it was the cobra.

That is what I mean. You can't realise what hits you.

Narco
2010-06-07, 17:54
That is what I mean. You can't realise what hits you.

I see, misunderstood your post. :)

ytman
2010-06-07, 18:20
I was spotting for BVR not too long ago on Muttrah and even though I was over 1.0 km away from the Cobra I could see and hear the shots hit well enough to have him adjust fire.

In any case... IRL the Cobra's cannon is said to be ineffective at ranges exceeding 1.5 km due to velocity slowdown. I found such info from Global Security and its Cobra Operations Field Manual.

mangeface
2010-06-08, 08:41
I don't see any problem with BVR fire. Cobra pilots have the ability to use it in the USMC, although they rarely do as they aren't shot down easily IRL as they are in game. The only tactic that I know of that the pilots use BVR is with guided missles. Although the pilots don't have the ability to lock onto a laser BVR AFAIK in PR.

chrisweb89
2010-06-09, 15:36
As infantry unless you are determined to hold a roof, this tactic while annoying won't be the end of you. You can easily hide in a building, or geuss which direction the fire is coming from(on muttrah from the carrier) and get a building between you and that direction and the last option is kill the spotter.

bloodcry223
2010-06-09, 21:08
As infantry unless you are determined to hold a roof, this tactic while annoying won't be the end of you. You can easily hide in a building, or geuss which direction the fire is coming from(on muttrah from the carrier) and get a building between you and that direction and the last option is kill the spotter.

The problem is..... that spotter could be very very hard to find. And if he is a sniper, he would be hard too kill too, since he has a power rifle with a power scope on it...

chrisweb89
2010-06-10, 01:15
Then you hide in a building and its your fault if you're caught in the open. 20mm won go into every room in a building. I realize the spotter is hard to find and thats why I left it as te last and hardest option.

hurt_locker
2010-06-10, 22:37
Nice :)

Hunt3r
2010-06-10, 22:57
Cobras should be able to fire LT Hellfires that can go up to 2-3 km, and have it lock onto a lase if it's within the seeker's FOV, then fly into the lase and go kaboom.

Murphy
2010-06-10, 23:56
I have had this happen a few times, the first time I swore the best sniper in existence had our squad zeroed it. Only after a few minutes of everyone running/scanning the horizon did someone in our squad realize it was a Cobra BVR pwning us. Frankly at first it did feel like some sort of hack/exploit, but after the situation is understood it's entirely understandable, and I'm surprised more people aren't using it more often. It's possibly the most effective use of CAS because the Cobra doesn't have to expose itself, and as such it's somewhat reflective of RL combat.

The only hassle is you can't see the cannon rounds impacting on the ground, nor can you hear them on their way in. Unfortunately you are left guessing what just happened, it would be a welcomed change to see the rounds flying down the street so you don't randomly walk right into fire which you cannot see.

Jaymz
2010-06-10, 23:59
Automatic BVR fire is being discussed currently. There are issues with is that result in people dying from seemingly invisible, silent rounds. It may not be fixable due to networking limitations.

Dev1200
2010-06-11, 00:32
If your unable to make the rounds visible and make sound, don't remove BVR. It gives the cobra a fighting chance in AA spam maps like Muttrah.

sylent/shooter
2010-06-11, 01:22
AA spam? I've never seen.... AA SPAM.... like maybe 3 AA's but no more... Really... The AA's arent a problem if you know how to manouevre

bloodcry223
2010-06-14, 09:45
I would love to see everything balanced between aircrafts (this counts as helicopters too) and AA's,but in this moment, the aircraft BVR tactic is very over powered since you can't shoot down that helicopter, since you don't have an aircraft on your map and since your AA weapons cannot lock that target and since you cant even see the aircraft,nor the rounds that kill you. It is very annoying for the MEC forces. :shock:

Hitman.2.5
2010-06-14, 13:34
That is the compromise to help the helicopter stay up for longer rather that get shot down on an unlucky attack run due to a lucky missile that gets past a flare wave, if you don't like it out smart the spotter and kill him then you wont have to worry for a while... TBH BVR is a skill for this game personally i have had many successful round in the cobra where attacking normally and using BVR and i know many other players that have too most will prefer BVR tactics.

bloodcry223
2010-06-14, 21:22
Okay. Let this thread die. I found all my answers and thanks to the ones that answered to my questions? :)

I won't be happy until the 20mm round's impact would render even beyond the gunner's visual range.