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StuTika
2010-03-08, 00:58
OK.

Played Silent Eagle for the first time on Saturday, was in the CAS squad with one other guy. We flew around, occasionally shooting at stuff, knocking down the enemy Havoc whenever it appeared, but generally being a bit useless.

My opinion is that the jets in PR are much too fast. Yes, the speed may be realistic, but it doesn't suit PR's small maps and low view distances. You barely have time to aim at ground targets or hovering helis before they're gone or you've hit them.

IMO, the speed of the jets needs to be drastically reduced, and their turning circle made much tighter.

Also, if this isn't already the case, jets should be able to fly out of bounds for 30 seconds or a minute before punishment.

The other annoying, unrealistic thing about jets is the extremely delayed throttle response. I was on Flight Simulator 2004 the other day flying a Tornado around, and the engine responds almost immediately to changes in the throttle setting. If you mess up a landing approach, you just slam the throttle open and go around again. In PR this isn't possible because by the time the engine has started to spool up you've hit a tree.

I hope this is a BF2 engine limitation (vanilla was the same), because if the DEVs have chosen it to be this way it's a bit daft.

Other than that, the jets are working nicely.

Stu.

Hunt3r
2010-03-08, 01:41
OK.

Played Silent Eagle for the first time on Saturday, was in the CAS squad with one other guy. We flew around, occasionally shooting at stuff, knocking down the enemy Havoc whenever it appeared, but generally being a bit useless.

My opinion is that the jets in PR are much too fast. Yes, the speed may be realistic, but it doesn't suit PR's small maps and low view distances. You barely have time to aim at ground targets or hovering helis before they're gone or you've hit them.

IMO, the speed of the jets needs to be drastically reduced, and their turning circle made much tighter.

Also, if this isn't already the case, jets should be able to fly out of bounds for 30 seconds or a minute before punishment.

The other annoying, unrealistic thing about jets is the extremely delayed throttle response. I was on Flight Simulator 2004 the other day flying a Tornado around, and the engine responds almost immediately to changes in the throttle setting. If you mess up a landing approach, you just slam the throttle open and go around again. In PR this isn't possible because by the time the engine has started to spool up you've hit a tree.

I hope this is a BF2 engine limitation (vanilla was the same), because if the DEVs have chosen it to be this way it's a bit daft.

Other than that, the jets are working nicely.

Stu.
The throttle response is most likely something the devs don't know how to change, but using afterburner is a quick fix for when you have to go around.

ZephyrDark
2010-03-08, 17:47
The delayed throttle is a dev option as it allows more realistic taxiing on a runway, and I bet you're using a keyboard @ mouse or something because with my flightstick's throttle control I can go down to about 40% throttle on runway approaches and if I miss my landing I just throttle up and blast my afterburners. The idea is not to throttle down too much or else you'll go straight into the ground.

On the tighter turning arcs, I believe someone on the Combined Arms mini-mod of PR has developed means of doing it and they are in the process of putting it into the next version of CA or something.

Most of this stuff is vBF2 engine limits and such as the devs with DICE never really planned on making their game ultra-realistic and such, DICE was aimed more for their classic Battlefield fragfest of vehicles & infantry. Not to say vBF2 was a good game for its time, but it just looks weak no to PR. Anyways I'm getting off topic now. Hope this info helps.

StuTika
2010-03-08, 18:06
The delayed throttle is a dev option as it allows more realistic taxiing on a runway, and I bet you're using a keyboard @ mouse or something because with my flightstick's throttle control I can go down to about 40% throttle on runway approaches and if I miss my landing I just throttle up and blast my afterburners. The idea is not to throttle down too much or else you'll go straight into the ground.

On the tighter turning arcs, I believe someone on the Combined Arms mini-mod of PR has developed means of doing it and they are in the process of putting it into the next version of CA or something.

Most of this stuff is vBF2 engine limits and such as the devs with DICE never really planned on making their game ultra-realistic and such, DICE was aimed more for their classic Battlefield fragfest of vehicles & infantry. Not to say vBF2 was a good game for its time, but it just looks weak no to PR. Anyways I'm getting off topic now. Hope this info helps.

Surely we could keep PR's excellent 'taxi engine' idea but combine it with realistic throttle response? And if we can't then tbh I'd rather have to taxi with my proper engine, which wouldn't actually be a problem if the throttle responded in a timely manner!

And no actually I do have a joystick with throttle, the jets still feel nothing like the ones in Flight Sim and I'm guessing the FS ones are probably more realistic :-P

But thanks for the tip, is 40% about the setting needed for a landing approach?

But what about the A10, which doesn't have afterburners? It's case of the real aircraft actually being more forgiving than the PR one :-/

Notwithstanding, the turn radius needs improving.

Stu.

Alex6714
2010-03-08, 20:25
Surely we could keep PR's excellent 'taxi engine' idea but combine it with realistic throttle response? And if we can't then tbh I'd rather have to taxi with my proper engine, which wouldn't actually be a problem if the throttle responded in a timely manner!

I can´t see why not. Throttle response is low to increase take off run iirc, though that could do with being scaled a bit. I don´t know where the "it must use up the whole runway" idea came from.

At least at the moment you get multiple levels of fun, and can pretend you are playing battleships at the same time. :p

ZephyrDark
2010-03-08, 20:39
But thanks for the tip, is 40% about the setting needed for a landing approach?
Stu.

Around there should work, just mess around on a SP server or local to practice landing and such. It all matters on the jet really, with the Attack craft (A-10 & Su-39(25?) i don't know the varient, but the Frogfoot) you'll want a little bit faster approach and as you get like 50m-100m i believe just throttle all the way down and what I do as I approach mid-runway, I pull up some as I start to get that reverse taxi motion to help slow me down. Now remember, I'm no ace, so this is just some basic advice. A lot of the decisions on when you should pull up and try again on the landing is before you even get close to the runway. You don't want to be just landing (less you're in a fighter as you have A/B's) and then go "wait, I can't land this...." as you'll most likely already be halfway down the runways and speeding towards a wall or tree o gate.

Anyways, good luck! ^_^

Rhino
2010-03-08, 20:42
I don´t know where the "it must use up the whole runway" idea came from.

Probably from the fact that in r/l a normal conventional jet uses a hell of a lot more runway to get off the ground than it dose ingame and we do not want the entire 4km map to just be a runway stretching from one corner of the map to the other.


As always guys, we dont have anyone currently working on jet code so if you guys want to improve it we suggest you do it yourself as we are hard pressed on other things at the moment.

Alex6714
2010-03-08, 20:53
Rhino;1289318']Probably from the fact that in r/l a normal conventional jet uses a hell of a lot more runway to get off the ground than it dose ingame and we do not want the entire 4km map to just be a runway stretching from one corner of the map to the other.




Of course, not arguing with that, played and play a good deal of flight sims and alike in my time. But even a 747 fully loaded has good chances of getting of the ground before the runway finishes, which I why I was refer¡ng to a proportional distance.

As always guys, we dont have anyone currently working on jet code so if you guys want to improve it we suggest you do it yourself as we are hard pressed on other things at the moment

I know someone who is very good at it. ;)

StuTika
2010-03-09, 00:17
OK, a cut-down question:

Is near-instant jet throttle response possible in the BF2 engine?

(I know the turn radius is, just look at vanilla)

corp_calqluslethal
2010-03-09, 00:34
u can adjust your throttle to lower if you want to fly slower. You don't have to fly at 100 throttle maybe that will help you out. Just take some getting used to the new rules and everything i think. I hope they come out with a stealth bomber that drops jdams. : )

Hunt3r
2010-03-12, 02:39
Rhino;1289318']As always guys, we dont have anyone currently working on jet code so if you guys want to improve it we suggest you do it yourself as we are hard pressed on other things at the moment.

Last I recall there was a certain mod who's name I just can't remember that was doing some great work to it...:wink:

BadGuy
2010-03-17, 03:12
Yeah 30 seconds is the actual out of bounds punishment because when you are out of bounds you do not see yourself out of bounds. The Huge problem is the ascending in jets when rapidly going over 3000 feet they freeze and keep going. with no responsiveness. Other players say I stalled it but come on I was going 1000 kmph at a 35 degree angle. They are not too fast at all. because the max is 1600 with boost. The maps in PR are A LOT bigger than you think.

Well The speed triggered for landing gear should be adjusted to 700kmph at 200 feet. Any more would be very close to a crash and when a normal jet is at 500 it becomes very unresponsive when the thrust power is at zero or when air braking it but will crash into the wall of the runway when you touch at 800kmph. I use to land Tornadoes and those were very close to crashing or I would usually crash trying to land them because the landing gear was not raised down at even pass the 700kmph mark.

lagopus
2010-03-17, 09:58
I pretty much disagree with those who means that the speed should be reduced. The speed is the jets strenght. If we look at the slow A10 I have seen it been shot down by APC's, tanks, TOW's, HAT's and even 50 cal's. It seems like a lifetime when climbing from 300 - 1000 feets and the guys on ground can pound you up really good before your safe.

In an F16 or MIG i know it can be annoying to go down on heli wich have been reported at say; north village, but when you get there it have moved a bit to left and when you come in so fast you might not have the time to turn and get a proper lock. Its a small price to pay when the speed gets you in and out from the battlefield fast, very fast, and out of harms way.

As for the throttle and runway's. You will know if the landing will go well when touching down. If the speed is to high, dont land at all, and even so you will have time enough to take off again. I you see that you will land on the middle of the runway, dont land at all. Not a problem, just need to practise.

PuffNStuff
2010-03-17, 21:27
In training/co-op there are two kinds of jets. The vanilla coded jets (for bots i guess) and the pure PR jets. Flying one of one type and one of the other, there is a huge difference in manuverablity. So much so that if one were jump in a pr jet, the chances of surviving an engagement with anything is significantly lower just because targeting a moving object is so difficult that it would take multiple passes to get the target in sight. Which takes a long time to go-around in these jets. The turning radius is ridiculously huge in comparison to the map.

This also brings up a point that I will take to suggestions: remove vanilla coded jets from co-op

Hunt3r
2010-03-18, 02:23
In training/co-op there are two kinds of jets. The vanilla coded jets (for bots i guess) and the pure PR jets. Flying one of one type and one of the other, there is a huge difference in manuverablity. So much so that if one were jump in a pr jet, the chances of surviving an engagement with anything is significantly lower just because targeting a moving object is so difficult that it would take multiple passes to get the target in sight. Which takes a long time to go-around in these jets. The turning radius is ridiculously huge in comparison to the map.

This also brings up a point that I will take to suggestions: remove vanilla coded jets from co-op

The vanilla coded jets are for the AI to fly.

As a side note, those things have so many flares that you really can only fire your missile without lock in order to even get close to a hit. It's absolutely hilarious to chase down another vanilla jet when you're flying one though.

BadGuy
2010-03-19, 01:15
In an F16 or MIG i know it can be annoying to go down on heli wich have been reported at say; north village, but when you get there it have moved a bit to left and when you come in so fast you might not have the time to turn and get a proper lock. Its a small price to pay when the speed gets you in and out from the battlefield fast, very fast, and out of harms way.


Use a Radar guided missile they have tres the range acquirement.