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L4gi
2010-02-26, 18:48
A few months back we were discussing battleplans and what not on IRC. We eventually ended up talking about my experiences while commanding CATA3 in the PR Tournament. I showed those guys a few of my plans, and they got really interested about the various aspects of PRT battleplanning. One of these guys asked me to write a post in the tactics section of these forums. This is that thread.

I've been "known" on some server for more or less controversial tactics. Various "dirty" tactics and "rushing". People might not like them, but everyone is entitled to their own idea on how to play the game. Some of the tactics have made games end very quickly, especially if a bunch of friends are playing with me. Call it stuck in overdrive.

I've always been interested in exploring all possible ways to play, thinking outside the box. My "career" in the PRT started in C7. I joined CATA3 right after the team was formed. My CO at that time was Aquiller, a person I've learned much from. I managed to get myself appointed platoon leader, thus being able to participate in a majority of the battleplanning. A few games into C8, Aquiller informed us about his resignation, which opened up the CO spot for our team. I was chosen to be Aquillers replacement.

I had commanded multiple times before on public servers, so I was fairly familiar what the job of a CO had in store. My first game as CO was C8 B3, Operation Archer. We managed to win with 2 caches remaining, after 4 hours of playing. This was the longest PR game I have ever played. The planning for this game was done by Aquiller, basically a test for me.

C8B4 - Kashan Desert 32, MEC
We decided to go with this map, because we were fairly certain that the opponents would not expect us to take it. CATA3 had suffered a humiliating defeat back in C7 on Kashan 64. We also wanted payback.

Key points of the plan:
- Stop enemy advancement
- Cut supplylines to bunkers
- Relieve pressure from infantry capping flags

Basically, we pushed all our armor to North Village from 2 sides. A majority of the enemy forces were situated right in the middle of our pincer movement. All the enemy armor was neutralized, and the flag stayed white. We used the BRDM+HAT combo to spot out enemy targets before our main armor force moved in. This was done to reduce the amount of friendly armor losses. Our helicopter crews trained to mostly do Beyond Visual Range attacks on enemy soft armor targets and engage enemy aircraft when they were spotted.

http://od-sierra.org/images/bp/kash32mec.jpg

We ended up capturing South Outpost, which we fortified and stayed at for the rest of the round. The enemy bled tickets, so we had no reason to attack any further.

C8B5 - Al Kufrah Oilfield 64, MEC
After the victory on Kashan, we were extremely pleased with our armor crews, so we decided to keep the pressure up by selecting another big armor map. Last time Al Kufrah was played in the PRT, NATO had won.

Key points of the plan:
- Slow down the enemy by disrupting capturing of first flag
- Surprise enemy armor by moving through the middle like idiots

We sent an infantry squad to each flag at the beginning. This ensured that we had men on all flags. The armor was told to ignore infantry, until the enemy armor threat was taken care of. We sent the BRDM(Mukhabarat in the picture) to further disrupt enemy movement and support Basij at the Village flag.

http://od-sierra.org/images/bp/kufrah64mec.jpg


We managed to fortify our first flag and the flag on the west side of the map with little resistance. The east flag had a bigger amount of hostiles, so it took multiple attempts to get the flag. Once we had secured the flags we set up some defences, and got ready to attack. We did a joint armor/infantry assault on the Village flag, and captured it.

C8B6 - Jabal 64, MEC
We chose this map because it was one of my favorite maps in the previous versions. I had a good plan in mind, which has worked for me in the past.

Key points of the plan:
- Make sure the enemy only gets to cap East Beach
- Keep West Beach neutral so we can set up a perimeter at Dam

http://od-sierra.org/images/bp/jabal64mec.jpg

We sent a BRDM+HAT to West Beach, also known as the infamous "West Beach Rush". The amount of enemy contact at all flags was low to nothing. The enemy team had decided to dig in at East Beach. It took us a very long time to cap the flag. NATO had set up an almost immovable defensive perimeter at the flag. I would compare our attempts to push them off to something like banging your head against a wall. Once our area attack was up, the defenders pulled back a bit, which opened up a small window of opportunity for us. We filled 3 BTRs with infantry, and sent one empty BTR to take the heat at the flag. Once all BTRs pulled up, we managed to take turn the flag for us.

The point of this thread was to show people what kind of plans have been used in the PRT and what possibilities this game has regarding planning. If you want to know something, please ask!

Wilkinson
2010-02-26, 18:55
Your tatics are keen and sharp, I've never heard of something like them. They are 100% Useful and smart. They do explot the game a bit but who cares. Plan for what you can.

AgentMongoose
2010-02-26, 19:14
It's worth noting kufra and kashan were over in under 30min. Jabal in an hour and ogt after that in about an hour or so. (well really 2 for ogt but the server crashed and we had to restart)

L4gi
2010-02-26, 19:26
Yeah, didnt add OGT to this because we didnt really have a plan. :)

Wicca
2010-02-26, 20:40
Im glad your in NATO now :D looking forward to learning from you.

L4gi
2010-02-26, 21:04
One thing I love with the new patch is that gameplay changes force us to think of new tactics. :)

Wilkinson
2010-02-26, 21:25
C9 will be one at it's finest. It will be amazingly intense :p

Drav
2010-02-26, 22:13
Ye hope they include CnC in C9.....would make for an interesting game....

Elektro
2010-02-26, 22:27
Drav;1280044']Ye hope they include CnC in C9.....would make for an interesting game....

Yeah... ehh.. with interesting you mean long right :)?

MaxBooZe
2010-02-27, 09:45
Yeah... ehh.. with interesting you mean long right :)?

Or very short.. :p

L4gi
2010-03-01, 14:22
Drav;1280044']Ye hope they include CnC in C9.....would make for an interesting game....

I think we would be fine with just staying with AAS and INS. :P

cyberzomby
2010-03-01, 14:29
Heres to hoping I get to serve as a SL again under your command :P

Drav
2010-03-01, 14:44
You massive pussy, Jack Bauer is going to spin round from your sig and put two between your eyes. He likes CnC and so do I. No wonder you went to NATO. I'm looking forward to see your lame ass tactics crushed by a real mans team :D

killonsight95
2010-03-01, 14:47
Or very short.. :p

or very lulz

ma21212
2010-03-01, 14:57
Lol at the Kashan bum rush, good times

Wicca
2010-03-01, 15:03
im hoping for CnC too. Since its the most balance, cant really blame on anything but the skill of the players.

MaxBooZe
2010-03-01, 15:39
im hoping for CnC too. Since its the most balance, cant really blame on anything but the skill of the players.

You better stay away from that battle then Wicca...

L4gi
2010-03-01, 15:51
Drav;1282313']You massive pussy, Jack Bauer is going to spin round from your sig and put two between your eyes. He likes CnC and so do I. No wonder you went to NATO. I'm looking forward to see your lame ass tactics crushed by a real mans team :D

YOU'RE ON FOOL! Wicca will crush you like a thing that gets crushed by Wicca.

-.-Maverick-.-
2010-03-01, 16:19
Campaing 9 will be epic, looking forward to serving with my good old spearheads. :mrgreen:

ma21212
2010-03-01, 16:26
The armor battles are gonna be sweet.

Filamu
2010-03-01, 17:35
YOU'RE ON FOOL! Wicca will crush you like a thing that gets crushed by Wicca.

You mean like a paper box, or are they too solid?
Anyways, with OD-S on NATO we cant loose!

-.-Maverick-.-
2010-03-01, 17:41
So I quess the whole OD-S is switching to NATO?

Dayum...

Filamu
2010-03-01, 17:48
So I quess the whole OD-S is switching to NATO?

Dayum...

Yeah, thats the plan atleast :P

Aquiller
2010-03-01, 17:53
It would be nice if every CO from PRT's past could write down couple of words here about their experiences. Maybe some pictures, too?


Muttrah 16 (C8 B1)

Operation Scar Tissue (<3 RHCP)

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n402/CATAquiller/i%20vacazioni%20nellla%20Danzica/muttrah_scar.jpg

First battle in campaign, all were eager and ready to finally get some action. We've picked Muttah as it was (and still is) the PR"s Goddes when it comes to maps, layer 16 - weren't prepared to counter Cobra/LAVs.

The plan was to dig in North City and survive until an opportunity for a breach will show. NATO was pushing hard, taking advantage of their scoped SAWs and overall better infantry skills. Soon it became a blood-filled stalemate. The K/D ratio stabilized and was slowly going against us.
It was that very moment when I ordered troops to gather as much trucks as they can. We tried couple of times to breach the defenses of Docks with 1-2 squads, but we failed.
Finally, after some good intel from our scouts, we've seized the opportunity at south entrance to the Docks. I've told several squads to mount trucks and rush through it directly to the Docks main hangars.

It paid off - several minutes later, Docks were greyed out, and soon after capped. NATO didnt retake the flag although they tried hard and almost succeded. Great opponent, great game.


We also had a fall-back plan if the North City was going to be overrun by NATO.

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n402/CATAquiller/i%20vacazioni%20nellla%20Danzica/muttrah_scar2.jpg


Commanding in pubs is nothing when compared to PRT, obviously. Much more organized, great communications and obedience - I really hope someday the same could happen on any random public server!

Scot
2010-03-01, 19:00
Hehe, you wouldn't want Michael Denmark posting in here, he's already got his own thread :p

Aquiller
2010-03-03, 19:22
Hehe, you wouldn't want Michael Denmark posting in here, he's already got his own thread :p

:) He deserves his own thread, for a great organizer and CO he is.

However I'd like to see some input from casuatly, for instance. :)

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-15, 19:16
Nice plans L4gi.

Im pleased to hear you learned from Aquiller.

Congratulations on all those CATA 3 victories. Seems like CATA dominated campaign 8 of the Project Reality Tournament.

***

I like your way of thinking here.


C8B4 - Kashan Desert 32, MEC
We decided to go with this map, because we were fairly certain that the opponents would not expect us to take it. CATA3 had suffered a humiliating defeat back in C7 on Kashan 64. We also wanted payback.

Slow down the enemy by disrupting capturing of first flag
Surprise enemy armor by moving through the middle like idiots


***

Questions:

1. You seem to view of the battle as an invitation to make use of surprise when possible? Is that conclusion correct and if yes, what in PR, has made you evolve to think like that? (if anything)

2. Is it possible to read the evaluation of these battles

***

Thanks for sharing your experience.


All the best,
Mike



---

Edit:

Hehe, you wouldn't want Michael Denmark posting in here, he's already got his own thread :p

Why wouldn't he want me to do that Scot?

What team did you play on in campaign 8 of the tournament?

L4gi
2010-03-17, 13:28
1. You seem to view of the battle as an invitation to make use of surprise when possible? Is that conclusion correct and if yes, what in PR, has made you evolve to think like that? (if anything)

2. Is it possible to read the evaluation of these battles


Thanks for the kind words and sorry for taking so long to respond, didnt see that someone had replied.

1. Pretty much, yes. During all of the years I've played, I've seen that using tactics which might look really crazy on paper usually tend to work well. Tactics that no one expects are harder to counter. Al Kufrah is a great example. We discussed our tactics for many hours, and always came to the conclusion that it will most likely end in a stalemate, since no one wants to make the push and try to break free. Thus we used what we did.

2. Unfortunately not. I no longer have access to the CATA forums. I will ask Orthas if he would be so kind and send them to me. They arent anything special, I dont remember if we even had any really in-depth evaluations. :P

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-17, 14:00
Copy and no problem about the time - thanks for your reply.

Yes, the surprise factor, is a great one - when it works out. Would like to play against you in the future, when i get a more useful gamer-pc. Cause you seem to be good in the offensive - and i am good in the defense. Could be an interesting match.

Would love to read those evaluations, regardless of their depth-level. Also if possible, any related discussion, specific doubts and so on.

**

Hm, think we old tourney commanders, should have a possibility, in a limited time-period or not, to access our old team barracks.

I mean, after all, every single one of us, did deploy a hotel amount of work while we were in command. The ordinary player have no idea how much work we actually put into this.

Personally i would love to see which of my logics (if any) actually survived my absence 1+ campaign, after my resignation. To see that, would maybe be an directly extended and also learningful part, of the PRT CO experience?

L4gi
2010-03-17, 14:04
I'd say that CATA2 mostly used things similar to yours, but started slowly changing with Afvalbak. Aquiller did his own thing in CATA3, and when I started commanding I also did my own thing. Your battleplans are very indepth, mine are more like a general outline and the beginning of the battle. Everything else comes along the way when the situation evolves. :)

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-17, 14:12
Oh, ok, thanks, had only recieved a little amount of info on that part.

Afvalbak? Have no idea who he is? Bonsai and Hunter i naturrally know very well, the others i don't know.

I defiantly wanna play against you some day.

L4gi
2010-03-17, 14:30
Hehe, im always up for a good game.

Afvalbak was the CATA2 CO after Hunter. Dont remember how many battles exactly, half of the campaign I'd say?

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-17, 14:55
Copy, so CATA 2, has had 4 commanders until today?

L4gi
2010-03-17, 15:47
After you yes, IIRC.

HunterMed
2010-03-17, 16:12
A reunion party for CATA COs here? Cool :)

As intro just as l4gi posted:
C5: Sign up as grunt for PELA, promoted to NCO, promoted to SL
C6: SL
C7: GSO, 2iC, CO

I could kick my ass for that archiving my battleplans :/

I'll try to post my Batteplans here too. But I guess I have to do it mostly without pictures...
So even it looks like not much work: It was much work :p

Many productive discussions, brainstormings and meetings about any battleplan.
Every battleplan had two threads minimum. Brainstorming and Planning.
Both threads often had several pages with several pictures and detail ideas worked on.



Battle 1 Qinling
My first battle as CO
What was especially difficult for me were the random flag placements. So far I was used to static flags and a pretty detailled position plan with AORs (area of responsibilites) and zones (sword, shield, safe).
I tried to stick to that system though during my CO time as I found it very useful.

I thought about doing a detailled plan for all flag positions, but I realized it is just too much to do.
So I tried to create a general plan for any flag.

Here two pictures I created for that battle:

http://img403.imageshack.us/i/generalflagplanquinling.png/

http://img249.imageshack.us/i/generalquinling2.png/

Of course the directions of the units can vary and only the basic idea is in these pictures.

My evaluation of that battle today is:
I was too defensive and could have done more in the offence. But the constant attacks on our flag didnt allow any units except Cougars (Spec Ops) to move away at least that was my impression from the CO-post.
Surprisingly we got air-superiority for some time but we didnt use it good enough... Most probably because many of the gunners and even pilots had to be found on short notice and the protocol (whispers etc) werent in use correctly.
End result was: 1-0 for NATO, CATA started with 50 points more though.
I still thought I did pretty well for my first CO battle :lol:

Also memorable about that Battecycle was that while CATA2 lost with 0-1 CATA3 won with 1-0 tickets.





Battle 2 Muttrah City

I'll just post some excerpts from my evaluation back then from that battle.

Situation was like this: NATO capped North City and then we had a nice stalemate between NC and the west city. You know the big road going from west to east. Just like a perfect place for a stalemate battle... Just like the river in Qwai River.

Our plan was to hold NC the whole round.
This did not work.
Due to the hard push right for our FB they managed to push us back.
Of course also their heavy assets did their part very good. APC and Huey attacks made it very hard for our infantry to hold or to get back the ground.
After NC was lost I ordered phase 2.
Defend East and West city with counter-attack possibility.

The plan for Phase 2: NC is lost worked to a certain degree.
We launched a counterattack with Vipers twice.
Both of those attacks reached NC and could hold ground for a time.
At one point Vipers managed to get to the Northern area of NC but then got pinned and destroyed by APCs.
So the counter-attack did not work, but it was clear that it will be nearly impossible to cap NC back and it wasnt the goal anyway.
Vipers and Cougars made NATO retreat and concentrate on their backyard. It also disguised our defence line and took some pressure from it.
I read in the CATA 2 victory thread that these attacks kept NATO guessing what we do next - this is a good sign!

Our plan for defence line worked pretty well.
Tiger A managed to hold the line constantly against infantry attacks, APC and cobra fire.
Also enemy RP was taken down once succesfully.
APCs were taken down as well as enemy snipers.
Tiger B didnt get settled in their T-Building because it was under constant attack by APC, cobra and infantry before our squad could settle in the building.
That lead to ticket losses.
After retreating to construction site the situation got better and Tiger B improved on their k/d ratio.
Leopards held East city as well and managed to shoot down cobra once.


Result: CATA2 won, not sure anymore with how many tickets.








Battle 3 Sunset City
We chose Sunset City because CATA2 just is a natural infantry killer team. :) At least that were my experiences... 8-)

My plan with pictures: I only have the pics on my harddrive but sadly not my written text...

http://img91.imageshack.us/i/plan1.gif/

http://img708.imageshack.us/i/plan2.gif/

Of course this looks very easy but dont think I just drew that in 5mins and it was good. There was a lot of time invested in any battle plan.
And discussions of many detaills in the according CATA forums.


As you can see I concentrated on the center as I expected NATO to attack constrution site with full force. This did not happen in the beginning though...
They attacked on our weak flank, the east.
Leopards were ordered to build that FB but were interrupted by NATO HMMVs pushing through the east. After a while though Leopards, Cougars and Vipers could push out the NATO forces (I think nearly the whole team) to the city wall in the north.

I remember watching the k/d ratios from Vipers especially... This was some cool sh*t 8-)

Well after that NATO chose to switch the flank and attacked constr site and could push us back, but then again we pushed them back and after all we ended up with Sunset city free of enemy troops and pushing NATO over the river.
After that there was some stalemate and the round ended.

Also memorable was that CATA2 was short 1 squad in that battle, that made me especially proud in such an inf map :)

CATA 2 won, not sure with how many tickets.

Here some eye-candy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC9LvcrAVwQ) Gotta promote my videos where I can ;)








Battle 4 Bi Ming

Sadly no pictures... I have to do it from heart...

We planned to rush Bi Ming from the start and surprise them. NATO said often CATA2 was too defensive all the time. So the surprise element was on our side clearly.

This was imo the best battle as the plan worked out so cool. :D

Again an excerpt from my after battle evaluation:

Munitions first phase
We had no contacts at munitions and Tigers reported clear area.
Due to Dragons losing 1 truck early we only had one FB on Munitions flag in the south of munitions.

Bi Ming first phase
We caught them with their pants down really.
They did not expect us to push that hard for Bi ming and already managed to push them outside Bi ming village completly and setup the fight in the NW and N of Bi ming Flag.


Bi Ming second phase
Heavy fightings all around Bi ming - with no clear results. Both teams took deaths and the k/d ratio was most times 5-8 deaths in our favor.
I got reports of enemies crossing the road and pushing from Comms.

This was the coolest moment btw

Munitions second phase
Tigers and Dragons were sent to Comms flag to cap it.
No to very low resistence at Comms and the flag was capped very fast.

Bi Ming third phase
Flag is uncapped and Vipers, Leopards and Cougars still struggle with probably the whole NATO team excpet one squad defending and building FBs at supplies.

Tigers and Dragons are sent to Bi ming to support capping.

Defence of Bi ming
Tbh I am not that happy with our defence in the first minutes and attack waves.
It was way too chaotic and squads moved out without any order. Also my orders with AORs did not bring much order in the chaos at first.

...


After all we capped Bi Ming and held it.
CATA2 won again, not sure with how many tickets...


Battle 5 Qwai river

Random flags again.
No pictures or battle text on my harddrive :/

The idea of the plan was this though:
Move slow and with a plan.
We setup a mechanized inf squad and an armor squad to move together.
So we really thought about how to move and use our advantage on that map.
The advantage obviously was that we have APCs and even better tanks.
This worked out very well imo.
We moved slow but steady and pushed NATO back step by step.

We were pretty lucky with the flag placement though. We got Temple and even one flag closer to our main, I think where the barn is.
The Third flag naturally capped by NATO was Mine in the north east.

1 squad was on temple the whole round
1 squad was on the fishing village and the souther bridge and patrolling there.
Mech infantry and tank squad where first north of the northern bridge and had tough firefights up to the northern edge of the map.
We pretty much pushed them off from our side though and managed to cross the river between the Mine flag and the norther bridge.
Close to the bridge though.

Then we set up a FB there, with luck as one badass managed to drive a truck through the northern river crossing passing at least 1 NATO with a LAT on the Mine entrance.
I remember that so well because I looked at it in the BR file because I couldnt image how that was possible ;)

Then we pretty much stayed there and attacked the Mine a bit. I think we destroyed their FB as many US soldiers came walking from the US Mainbase.
While that was happening I ordered the Southbridge/FV squad to cross to and defend the northern bridge end (on the US side)

CATA 2 won, dont remember with how many tickets...



Again a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8PGemRcLmM)
There you can see several screenshots maybe you can understand it better then...



Greetings
Hunter

L4gi
2010-03-17, 16:45
Great to hear from you Hunter. How are you? :)

Wicca
2010-03-17, 16:56
DANG, we need a NATO CO thread:P

Here is all the NATO commanders i can think of.

Mars, Eddiereyes, Scot, Smeg, Jigsaw, Funk, Tirak, hmmm. Well yeah thats everyone, i joined late c6 so i wasnt really aware of all the COs.

Web_cole
2010-03-17, 17:48
It does say PRT commanders Wicca, don't think it's specifically CATA ;)

L4gi
2010-03-17, 18:12
Its just that most CATA COs posted something before you noticed it. :P

HunterMed
2010-03-17, 18:29
Actually it would be very cool to read some words from NATO COs too indeed!

This could become a very nice thread with different point of views of the same battles...

Bonsai
2010-03-17, 19:32
Looks like I`m supposed to show up here?

Will post some plans as soon as I get access to the PRT barracks again.

Michael_Denmark and Huntermed - simply sign up for CATA for the PRT and you`ll get access back. ;)

And of course I would welcome it to have some NATO input. All COs I met were worthy opponents.

DANG, we need a NATO CO thread:P

Here is all the NATO commanders i can think of.

Mars, Eddiereyes, Scot, Smeg, Jigsaw, Funk, Tirak, hmmm. Well yeah thats everyone, i joined late c6 so i wasnt really aware of all the COs.

Shame on you Wicca, you forgot Casualty_UR.

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-17, 20:01
Good stuff Hunter. Thanks for sharing.

Also, isn't there a piece of video from that Bi Ming battle available? Think i spotted a video-snippet, in the tourney forums at some point?

Showing some defenders on a roof and som arty music on their right, or something? Cant remember.


Looks like I`m supposed to show up here?

Will post some plans as soon as I get access to the PRT barracks again.

Michael_Denmark and Huntermed - simply sign up for CATA for the PRT and you`ll get access back.

And of course I would welcome it to have some NATO input. All COs I met were worthy opponents.


Yes please! Would be nice to see all CATA/NATO CO´s, deploy some/all of their plans.

Bonsai, I would love to sign up, but i cant run the game on my present PC, thus i wouldn't be much a help.


DANG, we need a NATO CO thread:P

Here is all the NATO commanders i can think of.

Mars, Eddiereyes, Scot, Smeg, Jigsaw, Funk, Tirak, hmmm. Well yeah thats everyone, i joined late c6 so i wasnt really aware of all the COs.

Its true, you missed CAS? How could you do that? Have you any idea how much headache he gave us during those battles? Any idea at all?

I agree with Bonsai on this one, shame on you sir.

As i just stated in an earlier post this thread, the ordinary player, has no clue about the amount of work we deploy in the dynamic.

HunterMed
2010-03-18, 12:06
Also, isn't there a piece of video from that Bi Ming battle available? Think i spotted a video-snippet, in the tourney forums at some point?

Showing some defenders on a roof and som arty music on their right, or something? Cant remember.
Yep, maxboz recorded that one.
PRT C7B7 Bi Ming Arty Strike - Xfire Video (http://de.xfire.com/video/a1a8c/)

Drav
2010-03-18, 13:33
Hunter that was one of my favourite games from C7.....especially as our first plan was so poor, but we took a gamble after testing it and it worked flawlessly......loved it!

HunterMed
2010-03-18, 13:42
Yep, that really showed how important interteam-trainings can be, hehe!
I was glad that we changed the plan too :)

Aquiller
2010-03-18, 15:24
Hey, nice to see you guys Michael, Bonsai and Hunter!

MaxBooZe
2010-03-18, 15:30
Yep, maxboz recorded that one.
PRT C7B7 Bi Ming Arty Strike - Xfire Video (http://de.xfire.com/video/a1a8c/)

Ah right and to add in to some "Commanding" IIRC my first PRT battle Leading a squad :) Not too long before Dragons got disbanded :neutral:

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-18, 15:36
Thanks Hunter/Max, for the video-link! Cool stuff, is their a full video of that battle, available?

A few questions, maybe more will follow if thas okay.

Qwai River


You decided to use combined arms, as core tool, to slowly overcome the opposing units, (and you mention the asset-advantage as your focus-point), but how was the rest of the team organised, - in separated arms units?

Was the idea to have this combined arms unit as lead actor if you will, while the rest of the units would be service units to its performance?

If yes, did that create any team-cohesion-challenges?

Also, was their any strategically reason/s behind the decision, going for the combined arms solution on that map?

Did you have any specific doubts, about using a combined arms unit, in such a assumed slow battle, with those randomly flags popping up?

Can you describe how the combined arms unit actually made it out/the tactics it used?




Bi Ming


Also, during your time as CATA 2 CO, was the K/D ratio being exploited in training-activities? Or at least focused on?

If yes, how did the team react/adjust?

In regard to the use of the AOR system, in the Bi Ming area it self, any idea at all, why it was not able to decrease the chaos factor? Trigger orders lacking? Not enough training/squad-awareness? Non-useful AOR layout? (hope its ok im asking)




Sunset City


I had no idea you were one squad down in the Bi Ming battle, (don't recall that from our talk) - what was the reason for that squad missing? Couldn't CATA 3 have provided you with a squad? (read that wrongly, thanks Max)




Muttrah City

I read in the CATA 2 victory thread that these attacks kept NATO guessing what we do next - this is a good sign!


How did you/team come to that conclusion? Feelings? Changed enemy battle-profile in rytm?



***

MaxBooZe
2010-03-18, 15:55
The 1 squad down thing was on Sunset City not Bi Ming. Or at least from my memory.

HunterMed
2010-03-18, 16:27
Qwai River

1. You decided to use combined arms, as core tool, to slowly overcome the opposing units, (and you mention the asset-advantage as your focus-point), but how was the rest of the team organised, - in separated arms units?
There were 2 pure inf squads, Tiger Platoon. I am not so sure about Leopards anymore though...
1 (or 2) Mechanized infantry squad and 1 armor squad with a scout afaik.
But as said I dont remember exactly how many were in each squad.
For an exact setup I would have to consult the plan that I dont have on my PC, should be in the CATA archives of course...
2. Was the idea to have this combined arms unit as lead actor if you will, while the rest of the units would be service units to its performance?
We knew that the US team would be first at any position on the map with HMMVS or LBs. As result we planned to move slowly and bring in our strong point the heavy firepower.
There were no service units like you say though. Dragons maybe, but I dont remember exactly. At the end they formed together with Cougars afaik...

3. If yes, did that create any team-cohesion-challenges?
No.

4. Also, was their any strategically reason/s behind the decision, going for the combined arms solution on that map?
It was simply better. APCs as firesupport and transport without a long line of whispers etc.

5. Did you have any specific doubts, about using a combined arms unit, in such a assumed slow battle, with those randomly flags popping up?
No.

6. Can you describe how the combined arms unit actually made it out/the tactics it used?
Well, the APC stood as linebacker and was called in for firesupport and basically overlooked the infantry moving from A to B. That worked pretty good I think.



Bi Ming

1. I had no idea you were one squad down in the Bi Ming battle, (don't recall that from our talk) - what was the reason for that squad missing? Couldn't CATA 3 have provided you with a squad?
That was Sunset City, there was no any specific reason for the men shortness... Also it wasn't 1 squad completly missing but from all squads 1 or 2 people missing. So basically every unit missed 1 man I think.

2. Also, during your time as CATA 2 CO, was the K/D ratio being exploited in training-activities? Or at least focused on?
I dont think so no. But a good k/d ratio and killing assets is the only thing that counts in PR. I mean capouts can happen too or a heavy bleed, but not very often. So obviously everybody knew that a good k/d would mean victory...


4. In regard to the use of the AOR system, in the Bi Ming area it self, any idea at all, why it was not able to decrease the chaos factor? Trigger orders lacking? Not enough training/squad-awareness? Non-useful AOR layout? (hope its ok im asking)
Well, I corrected my post there a bit. I added a "at first". In the beginning it was chaotic but it got better.
Problem was though that NATO didnt attack from the same direction all the time ;)
And yes I think there were no written trigger orders if we cap Bi Ming completly, but I am not 100% sure about that.


Muttrah City

Quote:
I read in the CATA 2 victory thread that these attacks kept NATO guessing what we do next - this is a good sign!

1. How did you/team come to that conclusion? Feelings? Changed enemy battle-profile in rytm?
No because it was written there... Someone from NATO wrote: "That kept us guessing" :)




I would be interested though what you do with all that answers... I mean you seem to put a lot of work into those questions?

L4gi
2010-03-18, 17:01
He works for the CIA!

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-18, 17:08
Thanks Hunter. I do not put a lot of work into these questions, except for the spelling thing maybe? I need to improve my English.

I really hope the NATO CO´s will deploy some plans here too. Would be cool - for once - to get the opposing creations and views deployed in the same thread.

HunterMed
2010-03-18, 21:02
Copy copy... ;)
are those questions/discussion etc useful for your guide?
Btw if you update that huge guide you are making, you should post something there (like "updated"), that way it bumps up to the top again. That way more people could see that there is new content added.
I for example didn't check reguarly for updates but checked always when somebody posted on that thread...

I really hope the NATO CO´s will deploy some plans here too. Would be cool - for once - to get the opposing creations and views deployed in the same thread.
That would be really cool indeed!

p.s.: aquiller, good to see you too! :)

Scot
2010-03-18, 21:51
Shame on you Wicca, you forgot Casualty_UR.

Wicca has NATO 2 syndrome :p

I don't really consider myself as a Commander, I bloody hated the job, but props to anyone who can actually do it!

C7 was probably my most enjoyable campaign, I'll dig around and see what was around then, I distinctly remember B1 on Kufrah, 3rd time lucky for NATO 2, one of the most awesome moments ever :p

EDIT: Found NATO 2's Kufrah BP, it's not pretty, but it won :p

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x275/Eddiereyes909_2007/DesertSaberPhase1copy-1.jpg

4th was a stopping force, meant to hold and die, when 10 minutes in, Eddie calls to Moo, our SL,

"What's going on at Production?"
"We're capping it"
"Que?


Jiggy and a guy called Marmokaka(if anyone remembers him) properly ripped up the CATA 1 tanks as well :D

Robbi
2010-03-18, 22:08
Kuffrah C7B1 - 70th Armour ripped it up proper, big ups to all the lads.

isooth
techno
carebear
stemack
Ecki
and myself

Got some videos somewhere

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-18, 22:19
Copy copy... ;)
are those questions/discussion etc useful for your guide?
Btw if you update that huge guide you are making, you should post something there (like "updated"), that way it bumps up to the top again. That way more people could see that there is new content added.
I for example didn't check reguarly for updates but checked always when somebody posted on that thread...


That would be really cool indeed!

p.s.: aquiller, good to see you too! :)

Its difficult to say if they will be an inspiration or not? As general answer i say no, since they [answers/questions/opinions/results] base themselves on logic's not necessarily being my own (style) - as i also try to explain in my text/guide.

The quoted content could be an inspiration, had it not already been part of my logics. The method of slowing down to ones own speed, when the opponent have the upper hand in the movement-factor.

We knew that the US team would be first at any position on the map with HMMVS or LBs. As result we planned to move slowly and bring in our strong point the heavy firepower.

**

However, indirectly they [answers/questions/opinions/results] will maybe be useful - i think - for all of us, you, me, them, this community and the rest out there. What do you think? Will you be inspired? Are you already being inspired?

**

Not sure though, if I am going to update the guide anymore. The arrogant response i got from the developer team, last time i suggested something, in these forums, which i did in a polite and structured way, pretty much terminated my motivation. And motivation is half the effort, if not more?

Anyhow, think i am going to write a book out of the text instead, as i also said in the barracks when i resigned, see the guide is only scratching the surface anyway and is far from being structured enough. It is simply not good enough.

***

Hi Aquiller.

***

Scot, asking again, why shouldent Aquiller want me to deploy letters in this thread?

On note: I remember Marmokaka, he visited the server the last day i did my own intel on Bi Ming. Not sure if he ever mentioned that? Friendly personality, as i recall.

Scot
2010-03-18, 22:53
Scot, asking again, why shouldent Aquiller want me to deploy letters in this thread?

On note: I remember Marmokaka, he visited the server the last day i did my own intel on Bi Ming. Not sure if he ever mentioned that? Friendly personality, as i recall.

Sorry missed you there buddy, I just recalled you having the mother of all Commanding threads along the way? Might be remembering someone different :) Feel free to post, was just joking :)

And Marm was a good guy, friendly chap indeed.

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-19, 18:00
Thank you for your reply and your image Mr. Scot.

Sir, would it be possible for you, to deploy more content?

Like specific doubts to the plan presented, maybe content from evaluations/trainings, and if possible, a summary of the battle, from your perspective as PRT CO?

I hope its okay to ask.

Scot
2010-03-19, 20:36
Well I wasn't the CO for this plan, it was Eddie at the time, I'll dig into the archives and find you the plan.

Jigsaw
2010-03-19, 21:53
Muttrah 16 (C8 B1)

Operation Scar Tissue (<3 RHCP)

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n402/CATAquiller/i%20vacazioni%20nellla%20Danzica/muttrah_scar.jpg

First battle in campaign, all were eager and ready to finally get some action. We've picked Muttah as it was (and still is) the PR"s Goddes when it comes to maps, layer 16 - weren't prepared to counter Cobra/LAVs.

The plan was to dig in North City and survive until an opportunity for a breach will show. NATO was pushing hard, taking advantage of their scoped SAWs and overall better infantry skills. Soon it became a blood-filled stalemate. The K/D ratio stabilized and was slowly going against us.

Well you asked so here is an ex NATO CO :)

I was the NATO CO for the above battle so thought this is the perfect opportunity to look at it from the other side of the coin.

Below is the deployment plan. The idea was to drop in quickly on the first three flags and capture the first two, delaying the MEC advance at the West City flag for long enough to get a foothold in North City.

http://i387.photobucket.com/albums/oo317/Jigsaw_uk/Battle%20Plans/Muttrahplanversion2FINAL.jpg?t=1269034597

It did not work out like this due to a number of issues and we were unable to get our foothold. This for me was the worst scenario as having been a part of NATO for C7B2 on Muttrah I knew the dangers of being stuck at docks. It became as predicted a bloody stalemate with little ground being made from either side.

It was that very moment when I ordered troops to gather as much trucks as they can. We tried couple of times to breach the defenses of Docks with 1-2 squads, but we failed.
Finally, after some good intel from our scouts, we've seized the opportunity at south entrance to the Docks. I've told several squads to mount trucks and rush through it directly to the Docks main hangars.

At this same moment I had redeployed 3 squads out to the Northern flank. We were beginning to make progress in that area against a couple of enemy squads that had been patrolling the outer edge of the city and firing from the buildings, so I looked to push through there. Two squads had just made it inside the city limits and established a perimeter when the CATA squads made their move.

I believe the round was lost for a couple of reasons. Firstly had I pushed in those squads more aggressively it is reasonable to assume that CATA would have been forced to redeploy from their assault and defend North City. By the same token had I left them in their original positions then they could have redeployed easily to defend the docks flag.

Even more simply put; mines placed on each entrance would have neutralised any rush instantly, and it is to my eternal regret that this thought did not enter my mind.

It paid off - several minutes later, Docks were greyed out, and soon after capped. NATO didnt retake the flag although they tried hard and almost succeded. Great opponent, great game.

We were desperate and threw ourselves at the flag, but to no avail.

It was indeed a thoroughly exciting, extremely intense game even sitting in the box and was one of the more enjoyable rounds i've had as CO. That said, defeat was absolutely crushing, especially as it came so suddenly and just when the tide appeared to be turning.


I think my enduring memory of fighting against CATA COs is the element of surprise that they always seemed to have over us. No matter how much we planned we never seemed able to second guess their plans and that makes any opponent incredibly tough.

I don't really consider myself as a Commander, I bloody hated the job, but props to anyone who can actually do it!

C7 was probably my most enjoyable campaign, I'll dig around and see what was around then, I distinctly remember B1 on Kufrah, 3rd time lucky for NATO 2, one of the most awesome moments ever :p

Jiggy and a guy called Marmokaka(if anyone remembers him) properly ripped up the CATA 1 tanks as well :D

Same I think. I hated the job constantly, I am far more in the ground pounder mould.

C7B1 was absolutely one of the most incredible rounds i've ever played. I remember getting up afterwards feeling completely numb and dazed, something that has never happened when playing a video game before or since. I remember Marm so well, he was an absolute gentleman and a pleasure to play with. We did absolutely pwn 43-0 as a lone CR2 crew. Intense doesn't even cover it.

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-19, 22:17
Very very cool read Jigsaw.

All should read this.

Please more of the same from other battles!

Question:

Firstly had I pushed in those squads more aggressively it is reasonable to assume that CATA would have been forced to redeploy from their assault and defend North City

How excatly would you have done this; fewer part-objectives to attack from start or did you simply not rush it from start?

Very cool read. Stuff like this will only evolve the tourney and the public games.

Scot
2010-03-19, 23:17
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x275/Eddiereyes909_2007/DesertSaberPhase1copy-1.jpg

4th Rifles-5 men and 1 Support Truck
23rd MTB-3 men and 2 Repair Land Rovers
2nd Marines-5men and 1 IFV
3rd LAR- 5 men and 1 IFV
70th Armored- 8 men and 4 tanks
JCOMS- 4 men and 2 HATS and one support truck


4th Rifles and their support truck race to Oil Production, once there they start attempting to take the flag.
23rd will be following the armor, and repairing it.

2nd Marines will be attempting to take the flag at Oil Storage their IFV will provide assistance against light vehicles and infantry.
3rd LAR will be doing the same as 2nd marines.

70th will be in the upper most 2 corridores in the I quadrant. Once there they are not to activly attack anything without my approval. Their main job is to cover that flank.

JCOMS will be capping the flag at village, and setting up a bunker there. Once they are done they will move to A4k8 and set up a firebase, once done if we have either OS or OP they will setup an addiditional firebase at A8. From there they will either


Attempt to ambush enemy tanks while they are moving back to main for rearm.
Go on a hunter killer mission.


As many of you have noticed this is a very simple battle plan, the reason for this is that over battle plans are usually elabrant, and well they dont actually work very well in this tournament. As the saying goes, plans only work until the first bullet is fired.

Strategy
As a Commander I am more so worried about our strategy than our battle plan. Our strategy this time will be to lure out their tanks, or to destroy their tanks without our tanks. I love the powel doctrine, in that "You dont go to war except with an overwhelming force". Best case scenario, JCOMS can take out 3 of their tanks, leaving it 4 of ours against 1 of theirs, worst case they all die. I have faith in JCOMS.

Gentlemen, CATA 1 is an armor team, they love their armor. So the enemy will be expecting us to attack, on their terms. Instead, lets attack on our terms.


Ok boys, there you have my IBP, rip it up.

That's the IBP posted by Eddiereyes909 for B1, don't think it changed that much.

Jigsaw
2010-03-20, 01:09
How excatly would you have done this; fewer part-objectives to attack from start or did you simply not rush it from start?

Basically those squads were a bit slow moving into position as they paused around the central entrance to docks and were taking incoming fire from the high buildings iirc. I feel it would have gone faster if the units already stationed at the northern entrance had moved into the buildings with the reserve squads moving in behind, thereby making the initial assault and then following through with the squads behind.

Will try to post some more from the battles I have been involved in :)

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-28, 19:53
Please do.

Thanks for the content scott.

Is it possible to request some of the old NATO plans against CATA 2, like C6B2, C6B6? Or all of them :-)

Farks
2010-03-28, 20:25
This is a bit depressing to read. The last PRT battle I really enjoyed was C7B3, Op Barracuda. And that's well over a year ago. :|

MaxBooZe
2010-03-28, 20:32
This is a bit depressing to read. The last PRT battle I really enjoyed was C7B3, Op Barracuda. And that's well over a year ago. :|

The huge ass Stalemate one?

General_J0k3r
2010-03-28, 20:36
The huge ass Stalemate one?

that was crazy and nicely executed on part of nato :)

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-28, 20:50
Yes that battle too, could be interesting in regard to deployed plans in this thread.

Farks
2010-03-28, 21:02
That was one of our most simple plans - take the airfield and hold it. :p It actully worked much better than we expected, cos we were still struggling with it just a few days before the battle. Iirc, we had one platoon at the south part of the airfield, and another at the north part togheter with my squad.

hRRU5xyQN94

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5776/c7b317.jpg

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-28, 21:14
Nice stuff, very cool video, are there any more detailed planning-content avail, CO´s summery/evaluation, which u can deploy here?

Farks
2010-03-28, 21:23
Nothing on my harddrive, and I don't have access to the NATO archives atm. :(

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-28, 21:27
Ok Farks, thank you for what you have deployed.

Will anyone with archieve access, please consider to deploy?

L4gi
2010-03-28, 21:34
No one does anymore. Once I do, ill see what I can do. You'll prolly have to wait for a few months tho Michael. :(

Michael_Denmark
2010-03-28, 21:44
Ok, cool if you/others can/will do so, in X time.

Just think it would be awesome if all plan-related stuff/evaluations too, from both sides of old tourney battles, could be posted in this thread, so we finally (us co players), will be able to see, what the other decision-maker, had planned/experienced/evaluated, on his side of the hill.

Think this thread you deployed here, has been needed for many campaigns now. I have no problem if my plans/evaluations/discussions will be deployed, and i think most old PRT CO players, feels the very same. Its all old stuff anyway, being important components, of the PRT history and evolvement.

Ok scot, thx!

Scot
2010-03-29, 12:59
I'm in the middle of my revision at the mo, but in about 2 hours or so, I'll have a dig around for that Op Barracuda battle.

Michael_Denmark
2016-10-05, 10:30
Now I am trying to puzzle together all those people who has stepped up to the plate in the tournament, as either CO or SCO, I found this very useful thread again. Good information deployed here...and on that note,

Scot, you found it?

AgentMongoose
2016-10-06, 02:10
Holy Necro Posts Batman

Yrkidding
2016-10-06, 04:11
In case you don't have them,

C10 PAC Team:
SCO: Spook
CO: Cruzmissile
C10 EMF Team:
SCO: Norby
CO: Snipd, briefly ElMariachi, then Agemman and CasualtyUR , Danger_6,
What occurred here was a dispute with Snipd where he elected to leave the team, ElMariachi was recruited to replace him but felt the PRT wasn't for him after roughly a week or two (including 1 battle), Casualty And Age stepped up soon after one another (can't remember which was first) but both were busy in real life and didnt truly have the time to fufuill the position despite their best efforts. These two would stick around and contribute the rest of the campaign but Danger was recruited as someone who did have the time to actually CO and did a wonderful job at it for the entire 2nd half, rallying EMF and giving them the win in the campaign through some really close great battles. Ask anyone from these teams about the last battle of C10 and you'll get a good story. Both of these teams likely had an XO but I can't remember who they were right now.

C11 MRF Team:
SCO: Cossack
CO: Aleon
XO: WebCole
C11: PDI Team:
SCO: Danger
CO: Fnixer (who would resign early into the campaign as a result of real life issues I believe), then hotfranc who served for the of the campaign, stepping up from the XO role.
XO:hotfranc, not sure if they felt the need to give this position to anyone else after franc's promotion.

The factions for C12 haven't been assigned yet, (that will be taken care of after grunt sign-ups) but these are the two high commands:
C12 Team A:
SCO: Yrkidding
CO: ytman
XO: Murkey
C12 Team B:
SCO: Philrow
CO: Senshi
XO: To be determined.

Michael_Denmark
2016-10-06, 18:54
Okay,

C10 EMF Team:
SCO: Norby
CO: Snipd, briefly ElMariachi, then Agemman and CasualtyUR , Danger_6

Okay, Snipd resign, then ElMariachi was recruited and appointed by the administration? as CO for 1 battle, or was he already a player on the C10 PAC team, being recruited intenally, without the administration interfering in the change?

Agemman and good old CasualtyUR, who I fought my self as CO back in 2006, or so?, they step up and are also appointed by the administration, or is this maybe also done internally on the team?

Then at last Danger, and he pull it off for the rest of the campaign. Same question goes for him as with the rest; did the administration appoint him or was it done internally?

I am asking in order to understand the evolvement of the tournament, I mean with an SCO it should - in theory at least - be possible for the teams to adapt them selfs in the case wher new COs are needed?

***

When that is said, this pattern of continously change in commandership, is excatly what we saw back in both C5 and C6, when i played in the tourney.


C11: PDI Team
SCO: Danger
CO: Fnixer

Fnixer resign, then hotfranc step up and get appointed as CO, and he complete the rest of the campaign.

XO:hotfranc, not sure if they felt the need to give this position to anyone else after franc's promotion.
This sentence I do not understand...hotfranc and franc's? who is francs, another CO, or did you mean Fnixer?

Copy on C12 start data, lets wait it out and see what happens.

AgentMongoose
2016-10-06, 19:14
I think you guys meant to post in this thread:
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f142-commander-tactics/142982-amount-commander-players-project-reality-tournament.html#post2145115
no?

Yrkidding
2016-10-06, 19:28
Franc is just a short-form for hotfranc.

I was only an NCO at the time so I don't know exactly what occurred but I *think* it was a joint effort to find a replacement CO, Norby searching probably with some help with management at the time. I dont think appointed is the right word I think Norby was involved the whole way through and certainly nothing was done without his consent or active involvement in regards to the team. Next time I see him on TS I'll ask a question or two and see what I can dig up.

ElMariachi was recruited from outside of the PRT, (he was a motable member of the NEW community.) I can't remember if casualty was already part of the team or not, and Age (short for Agemman) was actually serving as a member of the admin team at the time, he stepped down from that role to join EMF as oyr replacement CO but again I don't believe this was any management "appointment". Norby was at least very familiar with Age if not friends already and Age wouldve been totally fine at the position had real life been a little less demanding.

Danger was someone that a bunch of us had been trying to get involved with the PRT for the whole campaign before we finally convinced him and he stepped into the CO role where he rather prospered, vbeing a big reason EMF narrowly won the campaign and going on to be an SCO for C11. So he had been following the campaign fairly closely but not participating until then.



EDIT: Err Mongoose is right, this belongs in the thread he linked really, my apologies.