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Salmonella
2009-11-26, 01:00
Thankfully to GhostDance's trees, we finally could start making our maps, we really appreciate the donation of the materials, the trees are real great, but in some point it lacks in "Amazonian style".

https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f196-pr-highlights/64946-map-vegetation-jungle-fever.html#post1102384

If you Google for "Amazon forest" you'll see what I’m talking about, massive trunks and wiiiideeeee "tree tops"(I don't know how to say "Copas" in English)
Inside the jungle you barely can see what is above the trees and vice-versa

At first glance there’s no problem using vBF2, PR or GhostDance's trees to create that effect, but we all know that BF2 engine its very limited, if you need 120K trees to do that occlusion, the engine simply can't handle, even on top systems the fps its very low, almost unplayable.

With wider trees you can get the same effect with 50% less polygons, so i've started to created new tree models based on this principle, "wider it’s better", hhuhuhuh.

model 1- kind of sumauna tree (http://images.google.com.br/images?q=Suma%C3%BAma&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:pt-BR:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=jN8NS5v3IcWGuAfQtKy4CQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQsAQwAA)
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9955/arvre.jpg
smaller trees are GhostDance's trees
model 2 & 3 - kind of jatoba (http://images.google.com.br/images?hl=pt-BR&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Apt-BR%3Aofficial&um=1&sa=1&q=jatob%C3%A1&btnG=Pesquisar+imagens&aq=f&oq=&start=0)
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1792/imagem2tz.jpg
the tree on the background is the taller of GhostDance's trees.

They are not finished and I’m not working on textures for now, that’s why they look so similar.

162eRI
2009-11-26, 01:25
Amazing work!!! That's great, good to see different shapes and sizes of trees ;)
So we will get our Jungle maps, glad to hear that.
Can we expect even more new trees and bushes!?

Tomato-Rifle
2009-11-26, 02:01
Those trees are huge, they're nice, but i'm worried that the texture of going to look horrible when you ingame standing next to the trunk and its going to be so un-detailed that close up. you know what i mean?

Bringerof_D
2009-11-26, 02:22
awesome, i love jungle maps...although lately i've been stuck in cities since jungle maps seem to empty servers

also, same issue as tomato. are the textures going to be redone/increased detail?

Salmonella
2009-11-26, 02:46
no no no, when using tileable textures, instead of stretching you repeat the textures, so you have the same detail no matter what the size of your object.

i didn't spent much time in this models UV's, cause I'm planning to make new textures for it, I just applied a automatic mapping

Salmonella
2009-11-27, 05:02
once more,
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5931/41291345.jpg

ReadMenace
2009-11-27, 05:25
Trees providing ground cover.. NEVAR!

EXCELLENT JOB!!!

-REad

lilkilla
2009-11-27, 05:56
looks awsome

Redfox
2009-11-27, 06:35
Looks awesome really like them :) can you tell us polygons and tri count?

Glimmerman
2009-11-27, 07:33
Nice tree m8, brings a more of diversity, so thats alwaays a good thing :)

Salmonella
2009-11-27, 13:57
Redfox;1192906']Looks awesome really like them :) can you tell us polygons and tri count?

model 1 - 974 tris
model 2,3 - 1237 tris
model 4 - 721 tris

that is in LOD0, in LOD1 i'm aiming to recude by 50%, and LOD2 to a maximum of 10 tris

ghostdance's trees have 900-1200 LOD0, 200-300 tris LOD1 and NO lod2
trees like de Dedicious(found in korengal valley) uses 300tris LOD0 and fucking 4 tris in lod1, and still makes the map laggy

the FPS drop when overviewing the jungle, is cause you see thousands of trees at same time.
tweaking the lods and viewdistance I think i'll get the ground cover effect without poor performance.

Salmonella
2009-11-29, 16:54
hey folks, I really like an opinion on this

like a said before, i'm trying to make the "jungle occlusion" effect with minor FPS drop, so I need to find the right spot between polycount and beauty
this test uses the model 3, with 1096 tris in lod0 that its shown up to 150meters and lod1 with 28 tris that is shown beyond 150 meters.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5470/lod01.jpg
nC9dMMKa554

it runs smooth as silk on my system(8800gt, amd x2 6000), always above 60fps.
the point is, do the overall quality and lod transitions worth the fps gain?

Hauteclocque
2009-11-29, 17:01
Just take the numbers after the "=" in your youtube link.;)

Mj Pain
2009-11-29, 17:09
Here..
nC9dMMKa554

162eRI
2009-11-29, 17:12
Perhaps more than 150m, but it looks great, we can see jungle trees all over the map. Nice work!!! (What's the fps with that?)

Priby
2009-11-29, 19:54
Maybe you should make a trunk for lod1 too. Or do you think they wont be seen if you get all the undergrowth on the map?

Wilkinson
2009-11-29, 20:05
With such a drastic LOD Drop the Visual effects are horendus. Though the BF2 Engine is more than suckish, this is probably the best fix-up we can probably provide. Try giving LOD1 50-60 more tris. see if it changes anything. Only time we will probably see AIR Assets are going to be 4KM in PR's Future. so this can be useful then.Otherwise it's all ground attack.

*APG* <=130192=>
2009-11-29, 20:07
lol...no chance to drop troopers into the wood ;)
We need fast ropes! :D

Amok@ndy
2009-11-29, 20:43
i wanna play tarzan :D

DenvH
2009-11-29, 20:56
It looks nice but it looks empty on the ground.. maybe you could make some mid level, low level vegetation too... So it will a bit more dense.

http://www.camathome.com/weblog/images/jungle.gif
Kind of like that, maybe with some jungle ferns and such.

TheLean
2009-11-29, 21:52
Nice jungle! This is a bit OT but I do remember the DEVS saying something in the mapper guidelines about the undergrowth system being phased out since it does not render far away. Only grass below eye level when prone was supported. This is because it sucks to be unseen by an enemy two meters away but being shot by someone 100 meters away. Also, it gives uneven advantages to people who lower their terrain detail in options, since the undergrowth does not render as far as on the higher settings. Its hard to tell if you have undergrowth in your video, so im just giving you a heads up in case you missed it.

Salmonella
2009-11-30, 01:21
It looks nice but it looks empty on the ground.. maybe you could make some mid level, low level vegetation too... So it will a bit more dense.
Kind of like that, maybe with some jungle ferns and such.

of course it did looks empty, sometimes you guy seems to only look at pictures and videos without reading what its about. I was just testing the performance with only one Tree type, i wanted opinion about the lod transtion and quality of that tree.
i'm planning to make at least 3 variants in 4 sizes plus 3 or 4 "area denial clusters", when I set everything up you'll can tell me if its looks empty.

With such a drastic LOD Drop the Visual effects are horendus. Though the BF2 Engine is more than suckish, this is probably the best fix-up we can probably provide. Try giving LOD1 50-60 more tris. see if it changes anything. Only time we will probably see AIR Assets are going to be 4KM in PR's Future. so this can be useful then.Otherwise it's all ground attack.

agreed, the new shape of Jatoba lod1 -76tris
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1175/imagemth.jpg
i didn't noticed any performance drop with this new lod

here's three more trees to the family
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8906/littlefl.jpg
the family together
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/979/little2r.jpg

Wilkinson
2009-11-30, 02:15
Shoot a new Vid when you can. New Lods Look very Nice :D
Though when mapping I'll be probably be making pockets of fields on my 4kms for Helicopter landing. If you do add air support I suggest it's not AS Dense. Or some areas are dense while some are not.

Anyway LOD Details:

What if we slimmed the trunk to give the Tops of trees more . Ground troops might suffer though.. :/

Let's see what the vid shows.

Excellent work Salmonella :D

ma21212
2009-11-30, 14:46
now we need a Skyraider and napalm from EOD.....well done

Salmonella
2009-12-01, 14:56
another video, this time with all models avaliables
yEgy0Z8Zaj4

i'm having serious problems on the collisons meshes, i dont know how to set them to allow bunchs of small tree just under the big ones, not replacing then.

Badmiojo
2009-12-01, 16:53
wow!
awesome!
very good!
I think the ground of rain forest like Amazon is little yellow and brown than green.
After all the sun can not reach the grass on floor. There are only dead leaves and dead branchs on the ground.

162eRI
2009-12-01, 17:45
Salmonella, you are doing an awesome job, this jungle is beautiful.
Will you add lianas, ivy, great variety of ferns and banana trees (don't know how to call those trees LOL) ?
http://travel.mongabay.com/panama/600/pan01-0693.jpg

WeeGeez
2009-12-01, 18:17
another video, this time with all models avaliables
yEgy0Z8Zaj4

in that video, funny how small everyhting seems :p pretty sweet, keep it up. I would love to see a jungle map in a future PR release! 8-)

Salmonella
2009-12-01, 18:19
appreciate the suggestions, i'm far from the end on this, I only finished 6 of 12 planned trees, and i'm already bored/upset with this.

modeling trees is harder than it seems, you have to make magics good looking trees with shitty 90 polys or else you are punished with monstruous laaaag.

H.sta
2009-12-01, 18:22
162eRI;1196243']Will you add lianas, ivy, great variety of ferns and banana trees (don't know how to call those trees LOL) ?

you have to use the banana-phone to call those trees:-P

I can't wait to play on a jungle map like this, will be the best warfare PR has ever seen

Wakain
2009-12-01, 18:27
looks great, but I'm afraid it's going to be a laggy hell for low end computer users:S
I'm also wondering if there'll be any changes with the Ai handling forests(normally they snipe headshots through 200m dense foiliage...:p

WeeGeez
2009-12-01, 18:35
I can't wait to play on a jungle map like this, will be the best warfare PR has ever seen

It'll be a Re-inactment of Joint Operations haha, lil more realism and an endless supply of DPVs! Chinooks! & Apaches! :shock:8)

:p

GhostDance101
2009-12-01, 19:08
Hey man:) Good start on the new trees . Firstly i like to agree with you that makeing good looking overgrowth with effective lods is a real nightmare... and on that note here's some feedback
http://i48.tinypic.com/ipo2og.jpg
I think you should try to sort out these floating leaves before you get to far...

http://i49.tinypic.com/2yzlhdz.jpg

These trees don't really look at all natural. firstly the trucks have nothing but strait lines Also the leaf planes are too flat and noticeable maybe try using more pollys?

Salmonella
2009-12-01, 19:45
looks great, but I'm afraid it's going to be a laggy hell for low end computer users:S

that is my main concern, beauty with performance, otherwise i'll be here making 15k polys trees

GhostDance101;1196302']
I think you should try to sort out these floating leaves before you get to far...
agreed, but like I said before, i'm planing to make new textures, so I didn't spent time in UV mapping, just applied an automatic mapping im maya.

GhostDance101;1196302']
These trees don't really look at all natural. firstly the trucks have nothing but strait lines Also the leaf planes are too flat and noticeable maybe try using more pollys?

No way of using more polys, to add one subvision on each branch i'll need 6 extras tris.
In the first tree you have 4 branches = 24 tris
24/72 = 33% more tris = 33% more lag
the same for the others

and believe me, the last video its barely playable on my system that could be called a "mid-low" one, 8800gt & AthlonX2 6400

sylent/shooter
2009-12-01, 20:03
F'n awesome guys. Can't wait to play them:D The shadow that it casts really adds a new feel to the game!!

GhostDance101
2009-12-01, 20:52
No way of using more polys, to add one subvision on each branch i'll need 6 extras tris.
In the first tree you have 4 branches = 24 tris
24/72 = 33% more tris = 33% more lag
the same for the others

and believe me, the last video its barely playable on my system that could be called a "mid-low" one, 8800gt & AthlonX2 6400

Dude From my experience with the bf2 engine, when it comes to overgrowth, the one main thing above all others that kills performance is density of objects. Because as you move through them it has to fade between the main geometry to the lod. For each individual object which is more taxing than the normal lod system for statics where it just switches.

so if you want densely placed small trees with better performance you will need to export them in clusters maybe 10 or more in a group give them extra long trunks to sick deep into the ground so that way you wont have any problems on steep terrain. that should preform a lot better.

But the main geometry should have more polys!!! focus on getting the shape of the trees more natural and organic!!!

Salmonella
2009-12-01, 21:52
and if I convert them to clusters via .con files, as statics? i've done this before but for other purposes, and I noticed perforcance changes, not so much but for better...

GhostDance101
2009-12-02, 01:18
No not in the con file. Here's an example of what i mean.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2i8iwyf.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/i2n8jp.jpg

Salmonella
2009-12-02, 02:18
I understood what you said on the first post, I was just wondering if "clustering" them via .con may give the same effect. Do you ever tried it?

Hey, how you make the lod projections, I mean how you convert the final tree into 2 planes?
You make it by textures baking or what?
I'm making this projections with "maketopofworldscreen" function of bf editor, but it doesn't give the best results due the lightning and AA settings.

GhostDance101
2009-12-02, 04:22
Here is a short vid hope it helps.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tL9rpA-1-oQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tL9rpA-1-oQ&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Salmonella
2009-12-22, 10:28
I tested your suggestions, in fact it was very similiar to what I used to do.

But I noticed two problems doing this way, its hard to set camera 100% parallel to the model and when taking these screenshot you are using a perspective view, which "distort" the image, making the closer objects much larger than the rear ones.
It isn't noticiable with smalls objects, but with the cluster and big trees that I was working, there's a huge difference.

So, what I'm using is...

Create a new map 256x1
Drag your model to the center of the map.
Set not to draw terrain,fog and sky.
Set your background color to a absolute blue.
Rotate your model 90º in pitch axis
Type in the command line - renderer.maketopworldscreen 2048 "C:\sideview1" 0/500/0 1024
Rotate your model 180º in yaw axis
Type again - renderer.maketopworldscreen 2048 "C:\sideview2" 0/500/0 1024

It will generate two 2048x2048 dds files of your model taken within isometric view, then use the magic wand to select the blue background color and set it as the Alpha channel.
_____________

I'm receiving some PM about sharing these models for other jungle maps, of course I'll share it, but only when I have finished. I'm kind busy right now, I think after january 15th I'll be back to work.
I don't know what is the politics about sharing content, even if isn't been made by official Devs, I think it will need some "audit" since it will be heavily used by 3 or more commfacs!

.CAOZERO.
2010-03-22, 16:12
AWESOME!

I´m a brazilian PR player, and I was expecting a brazilian mod for a long time... hooah!


Well, I´m writing here to give a feedback about the jungle.

The dificult to walk on jungle is that some places the vegetation is too closed, and it makes impossible to walk trought, even walking. So, to model the map you can use it in your favor, you can close big areas, or make isles of vegetation and for that, you guys don´t need to draw the tree trunk. Just make some vegetation walls closing some areas.

Other thing that its important to think, one jungle infantary tactic its to walk fast without make noise. That can be different kinds of grounds, with dry leaves and wet leaves, one makes more noise than another, some clues to locate enemies, like trails and foot steps.

The test video its very cool, but I think that the terrain is too flat, and with too much visibility at the ground level, but I know it´s only a test map.... But it´s important to keep in mind that inside a real jungle, the visibility is about 20m and 50m most of the time.

Some featured areas will be very cool, like the movie Pretador, with a waterfall, etc...

Trucks offroad?? No chance. The roads are very bad, and to drive on a jungle it´s impossible.... Maybe a new kind of an APC, that can leave crates will be necessary.


keep the good work guys!!

Flakkburst
2010-06-07, 03:00
You should show this to the PR vietnam guys, the map in the trailer looked quite barren compared to this.

Infantry1242
2010-06-07, 12:14
It would be cool if you could climb trees in the BF2 engine.....

Salmonella
2010-06-07, 17:02
It would be cool if you could climb trees in the BF2 engine.....
in fact you can, trees are staticobjects you can attach ladders objects to it, but is very unrealistic in my opinion.

MikeDude
2010-08-17, 02:27
How is it going with this project? Still working on it? Any progress? Can't wait to see it being used..

Good luck!

Snazz
2010-08-17, 05:26
I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more jungle.

http://cache.boston.com/images/bostondirtdogs//BDD_Walken-Cowbell.jpg

But seriously, the new jungle statics are looking great:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/ChiefRyza/screen237.png
https://www.realitymod.com/forum/f354-community-maps/83641-map-operation-tempest-4km.html